[chefdave]

(Original post by Tamora)
But who is "we"? It certainly isn't Cameron, Clegg or Milliband.

I'm not too bothered now anyway, the majority of the public favour withdrawal so as far as I'm concerned it's only a matter of time. I was watching Countdown the other day and the ambition of the one of the contestants was to be an MEP, when the presenter asked him from which party he said "UKIP, as I want to destroy the EU from the inside"!! When those sorts of views can be expressed openly on a tea-time show you know the game is up.

[internetguru]

(Original post by zippyRN)
the UK is outwith the 'Schengen' area and therefore can maintain full control of it;s borders should it choose to do, requiring adequate identification from any and all travellers

visas and grants of indefinite leave to remain are in the hands of National governments and unless and until an immigrant gains citizen ship of an EU state they are still subject to the rules regarding their original citizenship with regard to travel and settlement elsewhere within the EU .

so perhaps you need to do some research.

What? EU citizens have no immigration restrictions fool.

[Tamora]

(Original post by chefdave)
I'm not too bothered now anyway, the majority of the public favour withdrawal so as far as I'm concerned it's only a matter of time. I was watching Countdown the other day and the ambition of the one of the contestants was to be an MEP, when the presenter asked him from which party he said "UKIP, as I want to destroy the EU from the inside"!! When those sorts of views can be expressed openly on a tea-time show you know the game is up.

I hope you're right.

[Tamora]

(Original post by zippyRN)
the UK is outwith the 'Schengen' area and therefore can maintain full control of it;s borders should it choose to do, requiring adequate identification from any and all travellers

visas and grants of indefinite leave to remain are in the hands of National governments and unless and until an immigrant gains citizen ship of an EU state they are still subject to the rules regarding their original citizenship with regard to travel and settlement elsewhere within the EU .

so perhaps you need to do some research.

The UK maintains full control of its borders? How so when the European Court of Human Rights strikes down what the UK govt wants to do regarding asylum seekers and immigrants it wishes to deport? When we must guarantee the right of millions of people from EU member states to settle here should they wish? When someone from a European country's former colony gains citizenship of one EU state and becomes an EU citizen, they too have the right to settle here?

[L i b]

Whilst I don't agree that we cannot negotiate new positions vis-a-vis the EU, free movement is utterly fundamental to the purposes of the Union. It really isn't up for debate and, frankly, the rest of the EU would probably prefer us out than its most basic principles trashed.

(Original post by internetguru)
Couldn't Britain say "let us control our borders or we will leave" that will force them to say yes. They have far more to lose than us.

They don't really. But all the same, to leave over immigration would be a major overreaction.

[internetguru]

(Original post by L i b)
Whilst I don't agree that we cannot negotiate new positions vis-a-vis the EU, free movement is utterly fundamental to the purposes of the Union. It really isn't up for debate and, frankly, the rest of the EU would probably prefer us out than its most basic principles trashed.



They don't really. But all the same, to leave over immigration would be a major overreaction.

We don't necessarily have to actually leave. We just have to attempt to get something out of it if we don't even attempt to play handball then our politicians are complete pushovers. How are we supposed to convince our enemies to give up nuclear programmes when we can't even convince our allies to let us control our own immigration policy?