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Anyone else hate music pretention and snobbery?

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    Music snobbery is the exact reason that I let those types of people browse through my ipod and recoil in horror.

    "ABBA?!...wait, wait, is that Richard Marx next to MUSE? How?!"

    You get to watch them malfunction
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    (Original post by Bellissima)
    am i the only one who CANNOT STAND THIS??

    i keep seeing it everywhere, especially on youtube... "people who dislike this don't know real music" etc. whether it's on led zep, gaga, jayz, WHATEVER...


    why do people not understand music is SUBJECTIVE. opinions are SUBJECTIVE. why does it matter that one person likes one direction and the other likes daft punk....... really WHY DOES IT MATTER????? how do the music tastes of other people affect you in any way? why does liking a particular band or artist or aspect of music make you superior, why is your taste in music seemingly better?
    or you like one musician, for example you might say "i like adele" and then someone could reply to you "wait, don't you like justin bieber" (inb4 these comments) and it's like your whole opinion is invalid? it's moronic...

    why don't people understand we are not all clones and different people like different things! i don't give a **** what music you like and will not judge any other aspect of your character for it... it's not like you CHOOSE what music you like, it just happens... i don't see why you should be ashamed/embarassed for something as harmless as musical taste...

    also, just because you like one musician/singer/band, does not mean you cannot like other artists that are completely different!


    it's just one of my pet hates.
    True true, but you cannot disagree that there's a difference in the quality of music when you compare "you a stupid hoe, you a you a stupid hoe" to "you're the voice"(john farnham)...I think that's what people feel so strongly about.
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    i agree with ooooop that daft punk are good!
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    (Original post by j.alexanderh)
    Who would you say are the Tolstoys of music?
    Bach, Beethoven, Muddy Waters, John Coltrane, Lennon & McCartney, Metallica et cetera, et cetera. The innovators, the originators, the shining examples of every genre.
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    (Original post by Tzarchasm)
    Of course music is subjective and I can understand why someone will like a certain song. However, I can safely say that this song is utter ****.

    Beat is awesome, but the song is bs, could have done so much more on that beat
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    (Original post by j.alexanderh)
    If you enjoy Britney as much as Messiaen then you are probably failing to recognise some essential differences between them. Avoiding snobbery does not mean pretending that everything is exactly the same. Surely you see that with Messiaen you need to devote your full attention to the music for an extended period of time, and the rewards are correspondingly greater?
    I'm not saying there aren't differences, I'm saying that I don't see any reason to look down on at (or up at) someone for liking one of the two.

    Also, the benefit of Britney as opposed to Messiaen is that you don't need to devote your full attention to the music for an extended period of time, and still get enjoyment from it. (Also, the Blackout album is amazing, probably down to Britney's minimal input into it).

    I'm not saying that everything is the same, just that different music fulfils different purposes.
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    (Original post by py0alb)
    Bach, Beethoven, Muddy Waters, John Coltrane, Lennon & McCartney, Metallica et cetera, et cetera. The innovators, the originators, the shining examples of every genre.
    That's just a random collection of musicians of wildly varying abilities, from the astonishingly gifted (Bach and Beethoven) to the godawful (Metallica). I suggest that if you are going to be a snob, at least make some effort.
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    I hate this idea that if you listen to a certain artist or a certain genre, then you're automatically stupid or brainless. I've got a friend who hates the fact that I listen to pop, hip-hop, rap, R&B, dance, etc. He even hates stuff like soul and blues, and thinks that rock is the only good genre out there. If I get asked by someone else what music I like, he'll butt in and scream about how my music is complete crap. At the end of the day, I listen to music that I like, not what others like. Yes, fans of certain singers might have a certain stereotype around them (e.g. I've seen someone say that the stereotype of Lady Gaga fans is bitchy and obsessive), but you can't say "You like rap, therefore you're probably doing drugs and you'll blow my head off in 10 seconds" because while it may be true for some, it's not true for all.

    I like loads of different artists, and I'll listen to them for different reasons. I listen to David Guetta because it's fun to dance to. I listen to Lauryn Hill because I think The Miseducation Of Lauryn Hill is a deep, intricate album which delivers powerful emotion with each song. I listen to Emilie Autumn because her music is generally an excellent insight into a range of themes such as mental health, as well as the fact that she can turn music from beautiful to creepy in a heartbeat. No matter what genre the artist is or why I listen to them, it's whether I enjoy them or not, and I don't see why so much music snobbery goes on when we all listen to music for different reasons.

    When I visited Edge Hill for an open day recently, what I found interesting about my course (Music, Media & Sound) was that you have to be tolerant and open-minded with music, and honestly, it's something that I love about the course. Probably sounds a bit of a random anecdote, but it's something I appreciate.
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    (Original post by j.alexanderh)
    That's just a random collection of musicians of wildly varying abilities, from the astonishingly gifted (Bach and Beethoven) to the godawful (Metallica). I suggest that if you are going to be a snob, at least make some effort.
    That's merely your arrogant and uninformed opinion.

    "Metallica are godawful" - stupid subjective opinion

    "Metallica are excellent at what they do, but I don't happen to like that particular genre" - balanced, objective opinion.

    Learn the difference. I don't happen to like Country music, but I'm open minded enough to acknowledge that the leading performers may be excellent musicians and composers in their own right.
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    (Original post by py0alb)
    ...Metallica et cetera, et cetera. The innovators, the originators, the shining examples of every genre.
    Up until St Anger that is

    (Original post by j.alexanderh)
    That's just a random collection of musicians of wildly varying abilities, from the astonishingly gifted (Bach and Beethoven) to the godawful (Metallica). I suggest that if you are going to be a snob, at least make some effort.
    You can still be a metal snob I guess?
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    Music is all subjective. Anyone who disagree is either very egocentric or doesn't actually understand what the word means. I've also never understood why people make it their business to comment on the music tastes of others. Music is all about an experience, how would anyone else know what you're experiencing when you're listening to a particular song?
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    Well, you can always talk down manufactured crud (Justin Bieber, One Direction, Lady Gaga etc.) but other than that you're right
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    (Original post by -aimz)
    If anyone argues that Nickelback are in any way good, they are definitely wrong.
    What do you not like about Nickelback?
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    (Original post by alexlduffy)
    I hate this idea that if you listen to a certain artist or a certain genre, then you're automatically stupid or brainless. I've got a friend who hates the fact that I listen to pop, hip-hop, rap, R&B, dance, etc. He even hates stuff like soul and blues, and thinks that rock is the only good genre out there. If I get asked by someone else what music I like, he'll butt in and scream about how my music is complete crap. At the end of the day, I listen to music that I like, not what others like. Yes, fans of certain singers might have a certain stereotype around them (e.g. I've seen someone say that the stereotype of Lady Gaga fans is bitchy and obsessive), but you can't say "You like rap, therefore you're probably doing drugs and you'll blow my head off in 10 seconds" because while it may be true for some, it's not true for all.

    I like loads of different artists, and I'll listen to them for different reasons. I listen to David Guetta because it's fun to dance to. I listen to Lauryn Hill because I think The Miseducation Of Lauryn Hill is a deep, intricate album which delivers powerful emotion with each song. I listen to Emilie Autumn because her music is generally an excellent insight into a range of themes such as mental health, as well as the fact that she can turn music from beautiful to creepy in a heartbeat. No matter what genre the artist is or why I listen to them, it's whether I enjoy them or not, and I don't see why so much music snobbery goes on when we all listen to music for different reasons.

    When I visited Edge Hill for an open day recently, what I found interesting about my course (Music, Media & Sound) was that you have to be tolerant and open-minded with music, and honestly, it's something that I love about the course. Probably sounds a bit of a random anecdote, but it's something I appreciate.
    Your post is bloody awesome (then again, you are too) :awesome:

    Someone told me just last night to listen to that Lauryn Hill album, so thanks for the reminder :yy:.

    That's pretty cool that you like Emilie Autumn too :five:. Speaking of which, she has a London gig next week that I'm thinking of going to. I've been wanting to go to more gigs and this'd be a good start
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    (Original post by py0alb)
    That's merely your arrogant and uninformed opinion.

    "Metallica are godawful" - stupid subjective opinion

    "Metallica are excellent at what they do, but I don't happen to like that particular genre" - balanced, objective opinion.

    Learn the difference. I don't happen to like Country music, but I'm open minded enough to acknowledge that the leading performers may be excellent musicians and composers in their own right.
    More than a few problems here. Where to start?

    Firstly, there is no such thing as an 'objective opinion'; that's called a fact.

    Secondly, a balanced opinion is merely one which takes in to account all possibilities, considers them and draws a suitable conclusion. It is not (necessarily) one which is an equal compromise between all possibilities. Similar considerations apply to 'open-minded[ness]'.

    Thirdly, how much musical training, knowledge and listening experience do you have? Do you know how much I have? On what grounds are you calling me uninformed?

    Fourthly, could you explain how my opinion was any more arrogant than yours, and if so, why this is necessarily a bad thing?

    Fifthly, there are no objective artistic values. I think this is now generally agreed by philosophers. Metallica can be considered objectively good only against the criteria of goodness for metal music, which although implicitly agreed upon by metal listeners are ultimately subjective. I could make up a genre of music in which the only artistic criteria for a good piece was length, then declare my composition [hold A440 on an organ until the destruction of Earth] objectively great. Does this really mean anything? Objectivity is not the way to go.
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    I just find it amazing that when I'm on the Oasis or Billy Holiday youtube page, so many comments is "See kids, this is real music. Nothing like what's out there now", "Why listen to GAGA when this is around?" "I should've been born when this sort of music was made. There's nothing good around anymore "
    For goodness sake, if you like the song, THEN COMMENT ABOUT THE SONG!

    At least on the Gaga and Beyonce videos, the people who like the song are commenting about how much they like it, rather than how much they dislike all other music.
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    (Original post by CherryCherryBoomBoom)
    Your post is bloody awesome (then again, you are too) :awesome:

    Someone told me just last night to listen to that Lauryn Hill album, so thanks for the reminder :yy:.

    That's pretty cool that you like Emilie Autumn too :five:. Speaking of which, she has a London gig next week that I'm thinking of going to. I've been wanting to go to more gigs and this'd be a good start
    Thanks! =D

    The album's amazing! I'd have to say it's one of the most influential albums I own! xD

    :five: I've heard good things about her concert, have fun!
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    (Original post by Bellissima)
    am i the only one who CANNOT STAND THIS??

    i keep seeing it everywhere, especially on youtube... "people who dislike this don't know real music" etc. whether it's on led zep, gaga, jayz, WHATEVER...


    why do people not understand music is SUBJECTIVE. opinions are SUBJECTIVE. why does it matter that one person likes one direction and the other likes daft punk....... really WHY DOES IT MATTER????? how do the music tastes of other people affect you in any way? why does liking a particular band or artist or aspect of music make you superior, why is your taste in music seemingly better?
    or you like one musician, for example you might say "i like adele" and then someone could reply to you "wait, don't you like justin bieber" (inb4 these comments) and it's like your whole opinion is invalid? it's moronic...

    why don't people understand we are not all clones and different people like different things! i don't give a **** what music you like and will not judge any other aspect of your character for it... it's not like you CHOOSE what music you like, it just happens... i don't see why you should be ashamed/embarassed for something as harmless as musical taste...

    also, just because you like one musician/singer/band, does not mean you cannot like other artists that are completely different!


    it's just one of my pet hates.
    I thoroughly agree. I'd rather listen to an old man on the toilet than any of that ear piercing death metal that's often wheeled out as an example of "proper music". And I'd rather listen to Justin Beiber than either of the above options. I find his music utterly forgettable, but it's not painful to listen to. I don't understand why he's hated by what seems like 50% of internet users (the male half).
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    (Original post by j.alexanderh)
    More than a few problems here. Where to start?

    Firstly, there is no such thing as an 'objective opinion'; that's called a fact.
    (Original post by The dictionary)
    5.
    not influenced by personal feelings, interpretations, or prejudice; based on facts; unbiased: an objective opinion.
    6.
    intent upon or dealing with things external to the mind rather than with thoughts or feelings, as a person or a book.
    7.
    being the object of perception or thought; belonging to the object of thought rather than to the thinking subject ( opposed to subjective).
    What does this mean herpa derp? It means that objectivity is routed around the concept of the elimination of personal bias, it has nothing to do with the validity of the premise/conclusion.

    Secondly, a balanced opinion is merely one which takes in to account all possibilities, considers them and draws a suitable conclusion. It is not (necessarily) one which is an equal compromise between all possibilities. Similar considerations apply to 'open-minded[ness]'.
    Ok, thanks for that Captain obvious.

    Thirdly, how much musical training, knowledge and listening experience do you have? Do you know how much I have? On what grounds are you calling me uninformed?
    Appeal to authority a good argument does not make. Challenge him on the validity of his argument, not on the individual behind it.

    Fourthly, could you explain how my opinion was any more arrogant than yours, and if so, why this is necessarily a bad thing?
    Well because arrogance is traditionally recognised as a deplorable trait in a human being, especially when it is falsely justified. Your opinion it appears is based on subjective or flawed rationale, that is why he considers it to be arrogant.

    Fifthly, there are no objective artistic values. I think this is now generally agreed by philosophers. Metallica can be considered objectively good only against the criteria of goodness for metal music, which although implicitly agreed upon by metal listeners are ultimately subjective. I could make up a genre of music in which the only artistic criteria for a good piece was length, then declare my composition [hold A440 on an organ until the destruction of Earth] objectively great. Does this really mean anything? Objectivity is not the way to go.
    This is a rational argument.
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    (Original post by Ocassus)
    Ok, thanks for that Captain obvious.
    Clearly it wasn't obvious to him.

    Appeal to authority a good argument does not make. Challenge him on the validity of his argument, not on the individual behind it.
    I'm not appealing to any authority. He called me uninformed; I was just curious about the extent of his being informed about music, which is clearly relevant to the issue at hand. I'm not planning on dismissing him without argument.

    Well because arrogance is traditionally recognised as a deplorable trait in a human being, especially when it is falsely justified. Your opinion it appears is based on subjective or flawed rationale, that is why he considers it to be arrogant.
    What happened to 'attack the argument not the man?' Is it only me who gets warning points for that? Also check definition of arrogance, has nothing to do with opinion based on subjective/flawed rationale. Not that I claimed my opinion wasn't subjective anyway; I'm perfectly happy to admit that it is.

    This is a rational argument.
    Can't do better than quote you back to yourself here:

    (Original post by Ocassus)
    Ok, thanks for that Captain obvious.
    What does this mean herpa derp? It means that objectivity is routed around the concept of the elimination of personal bias, it has nothing to do with the validity of the premise/conclusion.
    Sorry, I did get a bit confused there, wasn't paying attention properly (I was replying as if he'd written 'objectively true').

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