[chrislpp]

Why do men like nice tits and ass?

I wouldn't bother asking TSR girls though, most are probably overweight and probably ugly.

[QwentyJ]

(Original post by *Rouge*)
He could be but given a choice, a lot of girls would rather bed the beefy guy than the skinny guy if asked to choose on the spot.

Interesting that it's ended up at a choice between two extremes. I've always been fairly certain that women prefer average bodied men, even if they cared that much!

[duharvalgt]

(Original post by x-friends)
Ripped = Steroids.

??? Nope I don't take steroids and I consider myself sort of ripped.

[*Rouge*]

(Original post by QwentyJ)
Interesting that it's ended up at a choice between two extremes. I've always been fairly certain that women prefer average bodied men, even if they cared that much!

You're right, most girls (including me) much prefer an average bodied man, so I was just giving that extreme scenario as an example.

[dulciemae]

(Original post by rogerharris)
It just distracts you from the good things in life.

Couldn't agree more.
Great analogy about the cars and trends and things. We're just made to believe we need these 'things' to make us happy, but ultimately, they are just things, and the fact is that if we realise this at all, it's mostly too late. All this 'yolo' stuff is making it worse as well. People translate 'yolo' to mean, 'money, fast cars, alcohol and bitches' rather than realising that getting wasted and using women is not what equates to a happy and fulfilling life that the slogan 'You Only Live Once' is trying to promote.
Derailing from thread title completely, but I just fancied a bit of rant.

[dulciemae]

(Original post by chrislpp)
Why do men like nice tits and ass?

I wouldn't bother asking TSR girls though, most are probably overweight and probably ugly.

And you probably aren't in a position to judge.

[RobertWhite]

(Original post by Dark Horse)
It has occurred to me before that there seems to be no real reason why being "ripped" would indicate a high-status male. So why do women find it more attractive than, say, someone who looks a little flabby?

I'm just theorizing here, but back in ape days, surely the leader of the tribe would not go out to hunt? If lion culture is anything to go by, the rest of the tribe would go out to hunt and be under the orders of and wait upon the tribal leader. And common sense dictates that the hunter-gatherers would be more ripped than the tribal leader?

Perhaps that's it? The tribal leader can have the pick of the women and being ripped indicates a lower status and therefore more likely to be single?

Have you not heard of intra-sexual selection...?

EDIT:

Evolutionary speaking, men prefer women with large breasts, an hourglass figure, small chin, pronounced cheekbones, large eyes, good skin etc... because they all indicate fertility which men are hardwired to admire. Women like men who are tall, strong, intelligent, small eyes, rigid eyebrows, those who are wealthy, have respect etc... because women are hardwired to admire men who can take care of them.

[Dark Horse]

(Original post by RobertWhite)
Have you not heard of intra-sexual selection...?

EDIT:

Evolutionary speaking, men prefer women with large breasts, an hourglass figure, small chin, pronounced cheekbones, large eyes, good skin etc... because they all indicate fertility which men are hardwired to admire. Women like men who are tall, strong, intelligent, small eyes, rigid eyebrows, those who are wealthy, have respect etc... because women are hardwired to admire men who can take care of them.

The bottom part does indeed sound true, my friend. But the real question is why? What evolutionary factors could be at play?

And the more I think about it, the more it seems unlikely that magazines such as Mens Health are to blame. I mean, I'm guessing women aren't avid readers of this publication and the only exposure they have to it is when they see it on the shelf next to Cosmo or w/e.

[RobertWhite]

(Original post by Dark Horse)
The bottom part does indeed sound true, my friend. But the real question is why? What evolutionary factors could be at play?

And the more I think about it, the more it seems unlikely that magazines such as Mens Health are to blame. I mean, I'm guessing women aren't avid readers of this publication and the only exposure they have to it is when they see it on the shelf next to Cosmo or w/e.

Well, I argue half of what we find attractive is cultural. On islands such as Tonga big women and men are found attractive, for example.

In intra-sexual selection the largest men would have the best chances to finding a mate. This means their genes were passed on to the next generation and so male offspring were also larger, stronger men. I don't know the mechanics behind why females prefer stronger men but perhaps there is a gene that controls it. If women were more likely to survive among men that were wealthier, stronger, taller and more intelligent then the women who did prefer those men were more likely to survive - and so there is a greater preference for them today as these gene was passed on.

[rogerharris]

(Original post by RobertWhite)
Well, I argue half of what we find attractive is cultural. On islands such as Tonga big women and men are found attractive, for example.

In intra-sexual selection the largest men would have the best chances to finding a mate. This means their genes were passed on to the next generation and so male offspring were also larger, stronger men. I don't know the mechanics behind why females prefer stronger men but perhaps there is a gene that controls it. If women were more likely to survive among men that were wealthier, stronger, taller and more intelligent then the women who did prefer those men were more likely to survive - and so there is a greater preference for them today as these gene was passed on.

Look people get a grip, please. Has anybody done neuroscience here ? there clearly are not genes which make a person like rigid eyebrows or many of these specific features mentioned.

What we do have is one very simple part of the brain called the amygdala, which makes realistic assessments about what to be afraid of and what not to be afraid of. Womens tend to not work as well and are smaller than mens. Their monthly hormone cycles also induce an instability and inconsistent aspect to cognition which makes them flexible, and friendly, but then prone to being overwhelmed by those who do not posses those attributes.

We also have a general aesthetic sensibility in the brain which responds to curves, scale and edges with different visceral reactions. children are all smooth and curvy and small and women are like paedomorphic extensions of children. Men are larger full of edges and lines (body and face, hair, dark tones etc just enhances this sharpness).

So the asthetic reactions revolve around this.

Our brain is also self organized to learns through experience where social value is most consistently held in the environment. money is just a token which allows transaction of social value.

Due to male brain axons, not rewiring themselves once a month like women, men will be consistent through their lives (mostly) so are more likely to accrue consistency that can build (whatever they want) on top of itself over time. In tandem with the other male attributes, testosterone, more reactive adrenaline rushes, higher perceptions of the importance of hierarchy (due to thicker neocortex) and less fear inhibitions (bigger amygdala) , which amount to us taking enjoyment in competing for things of value. i.e. We take a piece of the world for ourselves and enjoy taking our time building and rebuilding it.

And thats it. All the rest interplays around these principles from generation to generation, which is why what is considered a good attributes changes throughout history and will continue to do so.

[Dark Horse]

(Original post by rogerharris)
Look people get a grip, please. Has anybody done neuroscience here ? there clearly are not genes which make a person like rigid eyebrows or many of these specific features mentioned.

What we do have is one very simple part of the brain called the amygdala, which makes realistic assessments about what to be afraid of and what not to be afraid of. Womens tend to not work as well and are smaller than mens. Their monthly hormone cycles also induce an instability and inconsistent aspect to cognition which makes them flexible, and friendly, but then prone to being overwhelmed by those who do not posses those attributes.

We also have a general aesthetic sensibility in the brain which responds to curves, scale and edges with different visceral reactions. children are all smooth and curvy and small and women are like paedomorphic extensions of children. Men are larger full of edges and lines (body and face, hair, dark tones etc just enhances this sharpness).

So the asthetic reactions revolve around this.

Our brain is also self organized to learns through experience where social value is most consistently held in the environment. money is just a token which allows transaction of social value.

Due to male brain axons, not rewiring themselves once a month like women, men will be consistent through their lives (mostly) so are more likely to accrue consistency that can build (whatever they want) on top of itself over time. In tandem with the other male attributes, testosterone, more reactive adrenaline rushes, higher perceptions of the importance of hierarchy (due to thicker neocortex) and less fear inhibitions (bigger amygdala) , which amount to us taking enjoyment in competing for things of value. i.e. We take a piece of the world for ourselves and enjoy taking our time building and rebuilding it.

And thats it. All the rest interplays around these principles from generation to generation, which is why what is considered a good attributes changes throughout history and will continue to do so.

So where does being ripped fit into a woman's brain mechanisms?

[rogerharris]

(Original post by Dark Horse)
So where does being ripped fit into a woman's brain mechanisms?

Its the perception of size compacted. i.e. A short bodybuilder can look twice as big as normal man his own size. that saying people have that bodybuilders look bigger the more clothes they take off.

All the sharp edges and convolution of muscle, produce ridges that enhance scale. Also the muscles themselves build themselves over each other in a hierarchical manner (e.g. think the way biceps build peaks)and that also increases the perception of size.

Then there is the actual knowledge in the women of what the function of muscle represents. Discipline, strength, fitness, consistency to work hard etc. But these are latent learned values. A child may not find muscle interesting for those reasons, but may just respond to the aesthetics (as the visual systems are more prominent in child development than social structure values).

[rogerharris]

conversely can any man here really say he found womens big butts attractive in childhood ? Mostly children and pubescent boys (unless they are exposed to modern porn-and so value assignment) think of breasts a lot, due to being breastfed. So that value (and dopamine) is strong for the breast !

But then gain some sexual experience and all of a sudden womens rears become interesting, because its become linked to the pleasure of sex.

there are desmond morris theories of lordosis and breasts being attractive, at a fundamental visual level, but has that really been tested ? In primate lordosis the female is sending out a lot of ovulation scents, so that could be the initial stimulus trigger, plus the vagina is extra large and bright anyway. then after that the brain can associates future lordosis with pleasure even if there is no scent perception.

When you think about it, breasts and big butts are really just functional. And do teenage men really care about signals of womens fertility ? They just want to hump and dump mostly.

there isnt actually a brain area devoted to breasts or other sexual organs except the sex responsive areas of the hypothalamus, which some researchers linked to pheromones.

[Marlo Stanfield]

Dark Horse, to be perfectly honest mate you sound like a complete gimp. It's just more sexually appealing.



Everyone knows that's what women want.

[Dark Horse]

(Original post by Marlo Stanfield)
Dark Horse, to be perfectly honest mate you sound like a complete gimp. It's just more sexually appealing.



Everyone knows that's what women want.

I'm afraid you seem to be the gimp, my friend.

We know it's sexually appealing...the question is why. There's obviously evolutionary factors in all human instincts.

[Eveiebaby]

(Original post by J.Star)
So if you work out you are no longer have a 'natural' body?

I'm a bit of a purist.I don't particularly like intentional sculpting with the use of weights to artificially pump yourself up. I prefer more natural sculpting that outdoors activities and day to day living may cause. I think gyms are very artificial environments. I wont knock them, I used to go all the time, but I prefer a fit body but without over the top definition. It just doesnt look comforting to touch, it just looks hard.

[Dark Horse]

(Original post by Eveiebaby)
I'm a bit of a purist.I don't particularly like intentional sculpting with the use of weights to artificially pump yourself up. I prefer more natural sculpting that outdoors activities and day to day living may cause. I think gyms are very artificial environments. I wont knock them, I used to go all the time, but I prefer a fit body but without over the top definition. It just doesnt look comforting to touch, it just looks hard.

Which outdoor activities are you referring to?

[effofex]

(Original post by littleone271)
I think with a lot of men it can be obvious. If they're wearing a tracksuit and naff gold chains and swearing their heads off about rubbish in a chavvy voice then they probably don't have very much money although that should probably be the least of a woman's concerns.

If a man is talking about how delightful his time at eton was and all about a yacht he's had his eye on then it's quite obvious that he's minted. There are obviously a lot of men who fall somewhere in the middle where it's a bit less obvious but it's usually quite easy to at least detect class and asking them what they do for a living is always a good start.

I don't think it is necessarily obvious. There are some men who wear tweed jackets, who do not actually have very much income and can often just be living off their ancestral lands.

There are some men who will dress in sportswear but who have founded very profitable businesses, or who are salaried at very high levels.

In many cultures it is just not appropriate to be ostentatious about wealth (especially in the Netherlands and the Scandinavian countries). There are many rich people who will conceal their wealth. I remember one billionaire in China who made it a point to live of less than 20 dollars a day, since that was the standard of living he was accustomed to as a young man.

[Eveiebaby]

(Original post by Dark Horse)
Which outdoor activities are you referring to?

Like climbing, hiking, things like that. Activities to do for fitness/enjoyment which give a more balanced and natural tone rather than doing loads of weight reps of separate body groups. Only my opinion of course, but it makes the body look too angular, a bit of body fat/subtle contouring is far sexier and feels much more pleasing to touch.

[Dark Horse]

(Original post by Eveiebaby)
Like climbing, hiking, things like that. Activities to do for fitness/enjoyment which give a more balanced and natural tone rather than doing loads of weight reps of separate body groups. Only my opinion of course, but it makes the body look too angular, a bit of body fat/subtle contouring is far sexier and feels much more pleasing to touch.

What you describe is actually a body composition type. A body type that makes the person look ripped but the bodyfat % still isn't low enough to show veins and details on the muscles. It's not a function of the activity, it's a function of bodyfat %.

Perhaps you're referring, though, to the possibility that a man who goes to the gym 5 days a week, obsesses over kcal, protein intake and carb-timing as well as kicking himself for missing reps is far too obsessive over the whole thing? And that you could not possibly find that attractive?