If you could change ONE about the application process - what would it be and why?
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Original post by Parle à ma main
My teachers have been talking about it a lot at school... apparently they're just going to have end of year exams + no resits + the syllabus is changing (getting harder).
Tbh in 3 years the entry requirements can only really go up to A*AA at the most, 3 years isn't a long time
I personally think AAA is more than high enough, I don't know if it's somehow different for the rest of the country but the vast, vast majority of wannabe medics I know are struggling and working really hard to get the required grades. I'm actually genuinely confused about where grade inflation is coming from.
Tbh in 3 years the entry requirements can only really go up to A*AA at the most, 3 years isn't a long time
I personally think AAA is more than high enough, I don't know if it's somehow different for the rest of the country but the vast, vast majority of wannabe medics I know are struggling and working really hard to get the required grades. I'm actually genuinely confused about where grade inflation is coming from.Well that'd certainly help curb some of the ridiculous resit policies.
Nah. I think it might go up to A*A*A (Oxbridge and Imp have the other subjects going upto that at the moment, so I'd argue it's possible for med sooner rather than later).
But wouldn't higher grade requirements curb some of the less determined, and allow admissions to dedicate more time to those who are determined enough, since grades are after all, mostly dependent on your effort?
Just my two cents.
Unis should be made to get back to is sooner 
Original post by hslakaal
Well that'd certainly help curb some of the ridiculous resit policies.
Nah. I think it might go up to A*A*A (Oxbridge and Imp have the other subjects going upto that at the moment, so I'd argue it's possible for med sooner rather than later).
But wouldn't higher grade requirements curb some of the less determined, and allow admissions to dedicate more time to those who are determined enough, since grades are after all, mostly dependent on your effort?
Just my two cents.
Nah. I think it might go up to A*A*A (Oxbridge and Imp have the other subjects going upto that at the moment, so I'd argue it's possible for med sooner rather than later).
But wouldn't higher grade requirements curb some of the less determined, and allow admissions to dedicate more time to those who are determined enough, since grades are after all, mostly dependent on your effort?
Just my two cents.
I guess that's where we disagree- I think that resitting is fine. It's a lot of work to resit exams on top of your normal exams and anyone that pulls that off deserves credit. So much can go wrong with exams- if you feel a bit ill, or if you're so nervous that you can't concentrate, that can impact your grade and not reflect on your true ability. And I say that as someone who's not resat an exam before (although that's changed since unit 4 chem
)A*A*A would just be insane!
The private school:state school ratio is already ridiculous for medicine, if they brought loads of A*s into it that would just make things worse. Although to be honest, Oxbridge and Imperial are very academic unis, even if they changed the requirements, I don't think the rest of the unis would necessarily follow .Are exams dependent on your effort, though? I know a lot of people who work as hard as me/harder, and who would make better doctors than me, but don't get the As because of... I don't even know why, to be honest. A*s are even more of a gamble. To be honest I think UCAS tests dedication on its own, whoever comes out of UCAS sane deserves a medal
It'll be interesting to see how things unfold but I am SO glad I'm applying now and not in a few years time.
Original post by Parle à ma main
I guess that's where we disagree- I think that resitting is fine. It's a lot of work to resit exams on top of your normal exams and anyone that pulls that off deserves credit. So much can go wrong with exams- if you feel a bit ill, or if you're so nervous that you can't concentrate, that can impact your grade and not reflect on your true ability. And I say that as someone who's not resat an exam before (although that's changed since unit 4 chem )
A*A*A would just be insane! The private school:state school ratio is already ridiculous for medicine, if they brought loads of A*s into it that would just make things worse. Although to be honest, Oxbridge and Imperial are very academic unis, even if they changed the requirements, I don't think the rest of the unis would necessarily follow .
Are exams dependent on your effort, though? I know a lot of people who work as hard as me/harder, and who would make better doctors than me, but don't get the As because of... I don't even know why, to be honest. A*s are even more of a gamble. To be honest I think UCAS tests dedication on its own, whoever comes out of UCAS sane deserves a medal
It'll be interesting to see how things unfold but I am SO glad I'm applying now and not in a few years time.
)A*A*A would just be insane!
The private school:state school ratio is already ridiculous for medicine, if they brought loads of A*s into it that would just make things worse. Although to be honest, Oxbridge and Imperial are very academic unis, even if they changed the requirements, I don't think the rest of the unis would necessarily follow .Are exams dependent on your effort, though? I know a lot of people who work as hard as me/harder, and who would make better doctors than me, but don't get the As because of... I don't even know why, to be honest. A*s are even more of a gamble. To be honest I think UCAS tests dedication on its own, whoever comes out of UCAS sane deserves a medal
It'll be interesting to see how things unfold but I am SO glad I'm applying now and not in a few years time.
Oh no. I think resitting is perfectly acceptable, when it's a justifiable reason: say, the person was sick, had a nervous breakdown etc. but I think it's a bit silly if they did poorly cuz they didn't even study for it, and resit their modules/AS.
It's not just Oxbridge n imp with high entry requirements. And that's not for medicine. So I wouldn't be surprised if medicine goes down that path just like other subjects did. And medicine grades are almost universal, which makes me assume they'll rise to double star and A. (even now, for example, med requirement and non med requirements are miles apart in many unis)
But would they really? What you are saying is some students essentially are not good at A-levels..regardless of their effort. No matter what the reason is (can't cope with exams, just not very brain smart etc.), it gets harder in med school. You have way more exams, and a lot more stress. If they can't handle A-levels,, then surely they won't be able to handle med school?
Nah. Those who survive any form of conversations with their school counselors deserve a medal
Ditto on applying this year though.
Original post by hslakaal
Oh no. I think resitting is perfectly acceptable, when it's a justifiable reason: say, the person was sick, had a nervous breakdown etc. but I think it's a bit silly if they did poorly cuz they didn't even study for it, and resit their modules/AS.
It's not just Oxbridge n imp with high entry requirements. And that's not for medicine. So I wouldn't be surprised if medicine goes down that path just like other subjects did. And medicine grades are almost universal, which makes me assume they'll rise to double star and A. (even now, for example, med requirement and non med requirements are miles apart in many unis)
But would they really? What you are saying is some students essentially are not good at A-levels..regardless of their effort. No matter what the reason is (can't cope with exams, just not very brain smart etc.), it gets harder in med school. You have way more exams, and a lot more stress. If they can't handle A-levels,, then surely they won't be able to handle med school?
Nah. Those who survive any form of conversations with their school counselors deserve a medal
Ditto on applying this year though.
It's not just Oxbridge n imp with high entry requirements. And that's not for medicine. So I wouldn't be surprised if medicine goes down that path just like other subjects did. And medicine grades are almost universal, which makes me assume they'll rise to double star and A. (even now, for example, med requirement and non med requirements are miles apart in many unis)
But would they really? What you are saying is some students essentially are not good at A-levels..regardless of their effort. No matter what the reason is (can't cope with exams, just not very brain smart etc.), it gets harder in med school. You have way more exams, and a lot more stress. If they can't handle A-levels,, then surely they won't be able to handle med school?
Nah. Those who survive any form of conversations with their school counselors deserve a medal
Ditto on applying this year though.
It would be kind of hard to distinguish, though. I mean, most people aren't full on sick, or don't have a full on nervous breakdown, but are a bit sniffly or just really nervous. I also do think that people deserve a second chance... if they underestimated A Levels, or just were lazy, that's fair enough as long as they up their game next time and make up for it. Everyone deserves a second chance and all that.
Requirements at unis aren't too different... I mean, from the courses my friends are applying to, they require around AAB for the unis that do Medicine, which isn't too far away from AAA. I can see where you're coming from but I hope unis don't try and make medicine really academic because it's not supposed to be an academic course like maths or nat sci or whatever, it's meant to be vocational.
Maybe. But it seems like medicine requires a different set of skills to A Levels. The medics on this thread seem to be saying that just because someone doesnt have AAA, doesn't mean they wouldnt be able to cope with a Med degree. The skills needed for different courses are different... I can imagine that a lecture-based course would require more A Level-esque brainpower, but a PBL course seems to less science-y and require completely different skills to A Levels to learn the stuff.
Haha, like careers counselors? Man, I am not going to miss high school
Original post by Parle à ma main
It would be kind of hard to distinguish, though. I mean, most people aren't full on sick, or don't have a full on nervous breakdown, but are a bit sniffly or just really nervous. I also do think that people deserve a second chance... if they underestimated A Levels, or just were lazy, that's fair enough as long as they up their game next time and make up for it. Everyone deserves a second chance and all that.
Requirements at unis aren't too different... I mean, from the courses my friends are applying to, they require around AAB for the unis that do Medicine, which isn't too far away from AAA. I can see where you're coming from but I hope unis don't try and make medicine really academic because it's not supposed to be an academic course like maths or nat sci or whatever, it's meant to be vocational.
Maybe. But it seems like medicine requires a different set of skills to A Levels. The medics on this thread seem to be saying that just because someone doesnt have AAA, doesn't mean they wouldnt be able to cope with a Med degree. The skills needed for different courses are different... I can imagine that a lecture-based course would require more A Level-esque brainpower, but a PBL course seems to less science-y and require completely different skills to A Levels to learn the stuff.
Haha, like careers counselors? Man, I am not going to miss high school
Requirements at unis aren't too different... I mean, from the courses my friends are applying to, they require around AAB for the unis that do Medicine, which isn't too far away from AAA. I can see where you're coming from but I hope unis don't try and make medicine really academic because it's not supposed to be an academic course like maths or nat sci or whatever, it's meant to be vocational.
Maybe. But it seems like medicine requires a different set of skills to A Levels. The medics on this thread seem to be saying that just because someone doesnt have AAA, doesn't mean they wouldnt be able to cope with a Med degree. The skills needed for different courses are different... I can imagine that a lecture-based course would require more A Level-esque brainpower, but a PBL course seems to less science-y and require completely different skills to A Levels to learn the stuff.
Haha, like careers counselors? Man, I am not going to miss high school
I mean it more in a sense where the teachers/staff are less liberal with resits. More often than not, it only takes one look to see what type of a student someone is, and if their performance is bad already, a resit isn't going to help that much.
Ahhh... but some places do differ by a large amount. QUB for example: AAA for med, but BBB for biological sciences. That is a difference of one grade level across all subjects. What I meant earlier is that it wouldn't be surprising to have medicine become the only A*A*A course in some unis, regardless of their "academic" nature, as long as other unis start to do so. So to reiterate, QUB might increase med to A*A*A, while keeping its other subjects at BBB or maybe increasing them by only one grade on one subject, to say maybe ABB.
I'd argue medicine is Nat Sci + vocational training of extra 2 years really (spread out across the years). Regardless of whichever type of teaching, there is always going to be common exam types. Just because a course is PBL doesn't mean they have all anatomy questions in PBL scenarios in their exams, for example. Of course, they'll vary slightly amongst unis, but I still say you need at least A-Level-eque level exam skills in any med school.
Careers, uni, health, etc. All counselors. I actually really wonder whether there's any of us who really paid attention to those...
Original post by hslakaal
Oh no. I think resitting is perfectly acceptable, when it's a justifiable reason: say, the person was sick, had a nervous breakdown etc. but I think it's a bit silly if they did poorly cuz they didn't even study for it, and resit their modules/AS.
It's not just Oxbridge n imp with high entry requirements. And that's not for medicine. So I wouldn't be surprised if medicine goes down that path just like other subjects did. And medicine grades are almost universal, which makes me assume they'll rise to double star and A. (even now, for example, med requirement and non med requirements are miles apart in many unis)
But would they really? What you are saying is some students essentially are not good at A-levels..regardless of their effort. No matter what the reason is (can't cope with exams, just not very brain smart etc.), it gets harder in med school. You have way more exams, and a lot more stress. If they can't handle A-levels,, then surely they won't be able to handle med school?
Nah. Those who survive any form of conversations with their school counselors deserve a medal
Ditto on applying this year though.
It's not just Oxbridge n imp with high entry requirements. And that's not for medicine. So I wouldn't be surprised if medicine goes down that path just like other subjects did. And medicine grades are almost universal, which makes me assume they'll rise to double star and A. (even now, for example, med requirement and non med requirements are miles apart in many unis)
But would they really? What you are saying is some students essentially are not good at A-levels..regardless of their effort. No matter what the reason is (can't cope with exams, just not very brain smart etc.), it gets harder in med school. You have way more exams, and a lot more stress. If they can't handle A-levels,, then surely they won't be able to handle med school?
Nah. Those who survive any form of conversations with their school counselors deserve a medal
Ditto on applying this year though.
Some people just lack the maturity in year 12 to realise the level of effort required, you're being very black and white here just because someone fails once doesn't mean they should be denied the chance to try and get the grades to do undergrad med.
I did 15 exams in year 13, I had personal problems in year 12, more like a crisis of confidence that made me panic in exams so nothing like a nervous breakdown. I had to work harder than my peers because due to my own mistakes I had to do 2 years work in 1. No one who has got A*A*A*A* in their A levels without resits can't say that circumstances can't arise that will make them struggle at uni/as a doctor.
I see your point about resits though, but most people who resit don't improve their grades anyway (I had a teacher who compiled a spreadsheet about various students
).(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by Sherbet
x
Just to confirm, you did read this post I made earlier right?
To reiterate in case you didn't, I am not against resitting - I did it for GCSEs (a bit different, but same-ish). I'm against liberal allowances of resitting.
Original post by skylight17
Was just curious as to what people would want to change about the whole application process - whether that be taking something out of it or adding something extra to make the process even more competitive!
I think I would take out how much emphasis some unis put on UKCAT, as is it really a true represenation of a good doctor? (only a way to differentiate between candidates) - also prevents you from applying to somewhere you might really want to go.
Perhaps all unis should use the MMI style (of 7-10 stations) - a true test of the individual's personal and intellectual capacity. Also helps to avoid bias of the interview panel.
Also, maybe add in a mock PBL session (even for unis that don't adopt this style) as this is an effective way to see how people interact with one another (dominant and passive characters etc...)
Just my musings
Edit: excuse the mistake in the title *ONE thing
I think I would take out how much emphasis some unis put on UKCAT, as is it really a true represenation of a good doctor? (only a way to differentiate between candidates) - also prevents you from applying to somewhere you might really want to go.
Perhaps all unis should use the MMI style (of 7-10 stations) - a true test of the individual's personal and intellectual capacity. Also helps to avoid bias of the interview panel.
Also, maybe add in a mock PBL session (even for unis that don't adopt this style) as this is an effective way to see how people interact with one another (dominant and passive characters etc...)
Just my musings
Edit: excuse the mistake in the title *ONE thing
Not to give any additional "points" to people for ridiculous things like receiving EMA or being the first in their family to attend university.
Everyone should be equal, even if they are not all the same.
Original post by hslakaal
Just to confirm, you did read this post I made earlier right?
To reiterate in case you didn't, I am not against resitting - I did it for GCSEs (a bit different, but same-ish). I'm against liberal allowances of resitting.
To reiterate in case you didn't, I am not against resitting - I did it for GCSEs (a bit different, but same-ish). I'm against liberal allowances of resitting.
Sorry I did read up now, does it really matter for most applications though? As people who have to resit will have rubbish predicted grades or should do. I had to wait a year and apply because I was predicted very low which was fair enough
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