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If Israel nuked Iran

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    (Original post by OSharp)
    Funny Russia didnt seem like much of a democracy when they where arming themselves. They hold popular elections in Iran just like they do here, just because Iran elect a government you do not agree with doesn't mean that they should not be allowed to defend themselves to the same degree that we should. that's what democracy is, people power, whether those people are morally correct is no business of democracy.
    Hence four decades of cold war.
    The elections are a farce. Any candidate has to be vetted by the state to make sure they're Islamist enough. Even beyond that they're still rigged in many cases. Not to mention the fact that the elections are only to select a Prime Minister; the Supreme Leader (Ayatollah) rules indefinitely just like every other dictator. Iran doesn't want nukes for defense at any rate, it just wants to be able to force its will on Israel and/or wipe it out.

    Most importantly, by your logic any elected government should be allowed to build whatever weapons it wants. So we should have let Hitler build nukes if they had been created in his time? He was elected - "its no business of democracy" to stop him, right?
    The left is so anti-establishment it fails to see the plain truths. NATO are the 'good guys' here. Violent, anti-semitic Islamists should not have nukes, regardless of whatever fabricated election results they use to back up their own legitimacy.
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    (Original post by Jiytt)
    Hence four decades of cold war.
    The elections are a farce. Any candidate has to be vetted by the state to make sure they're Islamist enough. Even beyond that they're still rigged in many cases. Not to mention the fact that the elections are only to select a Prime Minister; the Supreme Leader (Ayatollah) rules indefinitely just like every other dictator. Iran doesn't want nukes for defense at any rate, it just wants to be able to force its will on Israel and/or wipe it out.

    Most importantly, by your logic any elected government should be allowed to build whatever weapons it wants. So we should have let Hitler build nukes if they had been created in his time? He was elected - "its no business of democracy" to stop him, right?
    The left is so anti-establishment it fails to see the plain truths. NATO are the 'good guys' here. Violent, anti-semitic Islamists should not have nukes, regardless of whatever fabricated election results they use to back up their own legitimacy.
    No im not saying that, im saying the exact opposite no one should be allowed to...

    and yes as a peace keeping force, they do a lot of good, but im not sure launching a nuclear weapon at a country who has yet to engage in active aggression, is a good thing especially considering that once you use that sort of firepower there is no going back. Millions of civilians would die, and the problems would get worse. a similar thing happened in Afghanistan, Western interference whether you view it to be good or bad in the first place has turned many locals into the arms of the Taliban through fear. exactly the same thing will happen if anyone where to attack iran, not to mention the cost of lives to young men and women doing the fighting and collateral civilian casulties.

    Like i've said I love the freedoms I have living in this country, but I do not think we can help others to achieve them by blowing them up.
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    (Original post by OSharp)
    Funny Russia didnt seem like much of a democracy when they where arming themselves. They hold popular elections in Iran just like they do here, just because Iran elect a government you do not agree with doesn't mean that they should not be allowed to defend themselves to the same degree that we should. that's what democracy is, people power, whether those people are morally correct is no business of democracy.



    WHAT ! UNNELECTED RELIGIOUS OFFICIALS! You mean like we have in the house of lords?

    I'm not saying that Iran should have nuclear weapons, I am saying that no one should. Then it doesn't matter what anyone does i just don't understand how you can expect anyone to agree to not developing them when hostile countries on their doorstep are sanctioned to own them.

    I love living in the west, i cherish the freedoms that we have that are not present in other countries but the violence the east directs towards us is not blind hate, but caused by poor negotiations and an unwillingness to learn about the cultures of others precipitating an atmosphere of violence and fear.
    Its not about them elections a government I don't agree with. Its about them not electing a government at all.

    No not at all like we have in the house of lords. Lets say there was someone above Cameron who held all the power decided policy direction and decided who could and could not run for office, then it would be like Iran.
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    No one would ever be justified in using nukes - not even for self defence. The amount of innocent people that are going to be killed by it doesn't justify it.
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    Its not about them elections a government I don't agree with. Its about them not electing a government at all.

    No not at all like we have in the house of lords. Lets say there was someone above Cameron who held all the power decided policy direction and decided who could and could not run for office, then it would be like Iran.
    Does that justify killing millions?

    Who's worse, a puppeteer or a mass murderer?
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    (Original post by OSharp)
    No im not saying that, im saying the exact opposite no one should be allowed to...

    and yes as a peace keeping force, they do a lot of good, but im not sure launching a nuclear weapon at a country who has yet to engage in active aggression, is a good thing especially considering that once you use that sort of firepower there is no going back. Millions of civilians would die, and the problems would get worse. a similar thing happened in Afghanistan, Western interference whether you view it to be good or bad in the first place has turned many locals into the arms of the Taliban through fear. exactly the same thing will happen if anyone where to attack iran, not to mention the cost of lives to young men and women doing the fighting and collateral civilian casulties.

    Like i've said I love the freedoms I have living in this country, but I do not think we can help others to achieve them by blowing them up.
    Well I'm not necessarily advocating a pre-emptive nuclear strike by Isreal or the US, as I think you make a valid point - it would kill millions and drive survivors into the arms of the Iranian government, Al-Qaeda, the Taliban and other violent organisations. More importantly it would probably cause the third world war.

    However, I think the West is justified in doing everything it can to stop the Iranians getting these missiles. If it comes to military action as a resort then so be it. What's more, the US, UK, France and all other Western nuclear powers should only ever considering disarming their own nukes in the situation where some form of liberal democracy has been adopted in every country worldwide.
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    (Original post by OSharp)
    Does that justify killing millions?

    Who's worse, a puppeteer or a mass murderer?
    Who are you talking about? I am not even talking about invading Iran just saying that your comparious of Iran to the UK and USA and claiming they are democratic is crap
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    Who are you talking about? I am not even talking about invading Iran just saying that your comparious of Iran to the UK and USA and claiming they are democratic is crap
    The title of the thread ?
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    (Original post by OSharp)
    The title of the thread ?
    I don't care about the thread just your idiotic assertion that Iran is somehow an equal democracy to the UK and US.
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    I don't care about the thread just your idiotic assertion that Iran is somehow an equal democracy to the UK and US.
    I'm not saying your wrong, I'm asking you not to be certain until you've been there. it would be of very little benefit for the west to paint Iran in a positive light if it where to Invade. You may be right but I don't believe it until I see it with my own eyes. and the chances of me going to Iran any time soon are low. I'm definitely not ready to brand them all as autocratic lunatics, certainly not when that would seemingly give justification for killing millions.
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    (Original post by Horatio-)
    Why does this need to be a race to the nuking?!

    People need to stop being so trigger happy and have a time out
    Thankfully history has shown that people with their fingers on a red button are early trigger happy, just sabre rattlers.

    Unfortunatly, religious nuts may not be deterred by mutual destruction. Not that this would justify nuking Iran pre-emptively though. I don't think nukes are ever justified . They serve only to kill people usually, and the people early had much say in their leaders crazy actions.
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    (Original post by OSharp)
    I'm not saying your wrong, I'm asking you not to be certain until you've been there. it would be of very little benefit for the west to paint Iran in a positive light if it where to Invade. You may be right but I don't believe it until I see it with my own eyes. and the chances of me going to Iran any time soon are low. I'm definitely not ready to brand them all as autocratic lunatics, certainly not when that would seemingly give justification for killing millions.
    You don't have to go there to know that if there is a supreme leader that holds all real power and every person that can run in the sham elections has to be approved by a council of other unelected officials then a country is not democratic.
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    You don't have to go there to know that if there is a supreme leader that holds all real power and every person that can run in the sham elections has to be approved by a council of other unelected officials then a country is not democratic.
    but you need to go there to know how people feel about it which goes back to my earlier point.
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    If Israel nuked Iran?

    Then Iran nukes Israel.
    USA nukes Iran again.
    North Korea nukes USA.
    etc etc etc

    = WW3
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    (Original post by OSharp)
    but you need to go there to know how people feel about it which goes back to my earlier point.
    I don't care what the people think. You claimed Iran was just as democratic if not more than the UK/US. Simply put your wrong. You are factually incorrect. Just admit it and stop trying to change the issue.
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    (Original post by Spairos)
    If Israel nuked Iran?

    Then Iran nukes Israel.
    USA nukes Iran again.
    North Korea nukes USA.
    etc etc etc

    = WW3
    Are you aware of the fate of North Korea's latest launch?

    The very notion that it threatens the USA is ridiculous.
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    (Original post by Cassius1993)
    Are you aware of the fate of North Korea's latest launch?

    The very notion that it threatens the USA is ridiculous.
    That I agree with. I'm sure their are many inside eyes watching what happens though regarding the situation there.
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    (Original post by alex5455)
    no one can deny america is a major threat to peace the world over.
    People can deny. You have very little evidence to back this statement up. Involvement doesn't equate to 'a major threat to peace'.

    your country has destablised the middle east with its invasions and needs to stop thinking it is the worlds policeman and deal with its own affairs instead of trying to run the rest of the world.
    The USA has been doing the middle east a lot of good. It is the involvement of the USA in Iraq that has made that country a reasonably good place now. I think it is expensive to get involved in helping the rest of the world to develop, but it is the right thing to do.

    europeans dont get involved with conflicts that are none of our business because we arent war mongering imbeciles like you foreign affairs isnt just war, but someone with your limited braincell count wouldnt understand that
    Foreign affairs often come down to wars though. Although I think what is going on the middle-east is a 'conflict' as opposed to an all out war. And actually it was largely european empires that were the reason behind the problems in the middle east today. Europe should have more of a role in the problems it has created. Instead it lets the USA do the work.
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    (Original post by matt4)
    That I agree with. I'm sure their are many inside eyes watching what happens though regarding the situation there.
    Absolutely. It's the South Koreans and US troops stationed on the border who need to keep tabs on what's going on.
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    you cant just nuke a country on the off chance it might develop something :lulwot: ...
    why dont we just nuke DPRK, Pakistan, Afghanistan, China, Russia etc. because they MIGHT do something... youre advocating setting an incredibly dangerous precedent here, oh and committing genocide..

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