Results are out! Find what you need...fast. Get quick advice or join the chat
Hey there Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free

Lets privatise the NHS

Announcements Posted on
Live webchat: Student Finance explained - on TSR from 2 - 3pm 17-09-2014
Got a question about Student Finance? Ask the experts this week on TSR! 14-09-2014
    • 20 followers
    Online

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Davethedavedave)
    And if you cant afford private medical insurance...... Well I guess your **** out of luck.
    Which is exactly why what you suggest is wrong.
    • 20 followers
    Online

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Davethedavedave)
    the price of health care could go down and people would receive better treatment.
    Any evidence of that?
    Also remember that currently the NHS has to pick up the peices for any problems that occur with private treatments.
    And the NHS bears the cost of things like A&E's and ambulances etc.
    Those costs would be huge for private companies.
    There is no chance costs would go down.
    And certainly no chance treatment would improve (the likelihood is that treatments would get worse as the companies would try to cut costs as much as possible).
    • 7 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Davethedavedave)
    I would oppose any government regulation of healthcare. The government is far to big and needs reducing, the removal of the NHS is just one step.

    Healthcare would become a private enterprise, which wouldn't be state regulated.
    Non whatsoever? Not even the fairly minimal stuff, like a government imposed standard for the minimum standard doctors must achieve in order to practice medicine?
    • 20 followers
    Online

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Davethedavedave)
    I would oppose any government regulation of healthcare. The government is far to big and needs reducing, the removal of the NHS is just one step.

    Healthcare would become a private enterprise, which wouldn't be state regulated.
    So you want anyone to be able to operate as a doctor?
    Would you be happy if I (someone how has no idea at all about medicine) would be giving you a heart bypass?
    Hospitals to be allowed to do whatever the hell they want?
    So you'd be happy if your hospital was dirty as hell and all the operating equipment was not sterilised?
    The number of people who people die or suffer because of that doesn't matter at all?
    • Thread Starter
    • 7 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by roh)
    Non whatsoever? Not even the fairly minimal stuff, like a government imposed standard for the minimum standard doctors must achieve in order to practice medicine?
    No state regulation what so ever. Nothing. Not a sentence.
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Davethedavedave)
    I would oppose any government regulation of healthcare. The government is far to big and needs reducing, the removal of the NHS is just one step.

    Healthcare would become a private enterprise, which wouldn't be state regulated.
    Wow you're even more stupid than I thought. So the way that competition would be created (which, other than regulation, is the only way companies don't just screw us over completely) would be to have us as the customers. So what are we going to have - 10 hospitals per city and we choose which one we want? How do we go about directing the ambulance driver to whichever hospital we want to receive care at - before the car crash that knocks us unconscious or perhaps through a nice tattoo'd arse? Better yet how about we privatise the ambulances too! Taxis seem to work pretty well and just think of the service. We could have 10 ambulances arrive and then they could all refuse to help us because we can't prove we can pay the fare because we're in a coma. Sounds great!
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Davethedavedave)
    I know my view is part of very small minority and this is going to be very unpopular, but I thought I would share it and see what happens.

    So the government is currently in the process of overhauling the NHS. As we all know the NHS is in crisis, anyone thinks otherwise is simply short sighted. But I think more drastic changes need to take place.

    Right now the government punish those who work hard and are involved in private enterprise, via means of redistribution of taxes on the rich to pay for health care for all. And also those who use private health care continue to pay national insurance. We don't need this, and everyone should be on a level playing field via private healthcare. That way we get a better quality of treatment for all.

    Privatatisation will give everyone a chance to become a shareholder in the a private health service. This means that the health companies will be more accountable to you, because without the approval of there customers they are unlikely to turn a profit.

    A wider range of treatments will be available, drugs that can’t be found on the NHS will become more accessible in the country.

    People will change their life styles, eating habits, increase the amount they exercise etc etc, because they know that living in an irresponsible manner will end up costing them money and no one else.

    With the population getting older by the day, the government can ill afford to keep on the NHS as tax money should be spent else where. So its important that massive private investment takes place as soon as possible. Private health care will provide a higher standard of care and insure that the population of the UK gets the health care it deserves.
    "People will change their life styles, eating habits, increase the amount they exercise etc etc, because they know that living in an irresponsible manner will end up costing them money and no one else. "

    This line annoys and actually upsets me. What about Cancer? What about Lupus? Both have been in my family and it affects how someone lives... they won't be able to afford treatment or pills. Lupus, you take tablets which increase your weight. So what happens to those people? To the poor people who can't work because there disabiled and so don't have no money to pay.

    Oh wait, **** the poor should be the motto of this idiotic party.

    I have a right to be angry as my mum has Lupus and she has to go to the hospital nearly every month, if she had to pay every time we would be on the streets.
    • 1 follower
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    No thanks Dave
    • Thread Starter
    • 7 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Logi)
    Wow you're even more stupid than I thought. So the way that competition would be created (which, other than regulation, is the only way companies don't just screw us over completely) would be to have us as the customers. So what are we going to have - 10 hospitals per city and we choose which one we want? How do we go about directing the ambulance driver to whichever hospital we want to receive care at - before the car crash that knocks us unconscious or perhaps through a nice tattoo'd arse? Better yet how about we privatise the ambulances too! Taxis seem to work pretty well and just think of the service. We could have 10 ambulances arrive and then they could all refuse to help us because we can't prove we can pay the fare because we're in a coma. Sound great!
    You should have more faith in private enterprise. A system would emerge that would be cost effective and more efficient that the current state system.

    The picture you pain is a ridiculous one and completely out of context. I don't oppose regulation, just state regulation.

    Like I stated in my OP, if health care companies want to retain their customers, then they would provide high quality affordable care.
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Davethedavedave)
    You should have more faith in private enterprise. A system would emerge that would be cost effective and more efficient that the current state system.

    The picture you pain is a ridiculous one and completely out of context. I don't oppose regulation, just state regulation.

    Like I stated in my OP, if health care companies want to retain their customers, then they would provide high quality affordable care.
    Which only works if the customer has a choice. Where is that choice in your system?
    • 7 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Davethedavedave)
    No state regulation what so ever. Nothing. Not a sentence.
    OK, so I buy a hospital in the new free market for healthcare. Don't bother adding new equipment or anything. I then see that consultants with full medical training cost around 100k a year. I decide this is a bit much and instead recruit a crack team on minimum wage with 6 GCSEs between them. I've just made a massive saving and offer health care at three quarters the normal cost.

    Now, the market will find out that what I'm offering is shambolic and pull out after a few months. But, in this few months my brilliant team of idiots could have killed tens or hundreds of people. Would you just let that happen and the market take its course, at the expense of those lives? When a simple law stating all doctors must have trained for 5 years at a recognised medical school would save them? And would issues such as abortion and euthanasia just be free rein? Because if euthansia's allowed without any controls, as a doctor, who can't of course be struck off as their is no register to be struck from, what's stopping their Xmas bonus coming from the rich dementia patient on ward 12 who just signed the lot to them and is now being euthanised by the same doctor?
    • Thread Starter
    • 7 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Logi)
    Which only works if the customer has a choice. Where is that choice in your system?
    Just because their is only one hospital in a town, doesn't mean their cant be doctors from say, four different companies working their. Or even more maybe?

    People would have choice, their should be strong and genuine competition in the healthcare market place.
    • 2 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    Dave,

    Can you explain how America is 'too different' to be a good example for us to use in this field?

    And can you answer my point: private health insurers, in seeking to maximise profit, will avoid issuing healthcare to those who will need it the most. They award perfectly healthy people with cheap healthcare, while those badly needing it are enormously ripped off. Moreover, if you do try to claim it, they will seek in every way to avoid paying out.

    You claim the healthcare field should not be regulated at all. I can envision this being catastrophic - they would take people's money, and simply refuse to pay out when people try to claim.

    Can you address this please?
    • Thread Starter
    • 7 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by roh)
    OK, so I buy a hospital in the new free market for healthcare. Don't bother adding new equipment or anything. I then see that consultants with full medical training cost around 100k a year. I decide this is a bit much and instead recruit a crack team on minimum wage with 6 GCSEs between them. I've just made a massive saving and offer health care at three quarters the normal cost.

    Now, the market will find out that what I'm offering is shambolic and pull out after a few months. But, in this few months my brilliant team of idiots could have killed tens or hundreds of people. Would you just let that happen and the market take its course, at the expense of those lives? When a simple law stating all doctors must have trained for 5 years at a recognised medical school would save them? And would issues such as abortion and euthanasia just be free rein? Because if euthansia's allowed without any controls, as a doctor, who can't of course be struck off as their is no register to be struck from, what's stopping my Xmas bonus coming from the rich dementia patient on ward 12 who just signed the lot to them and is now being euthanised by the same doctor?
    Like i stated, I am against all forms of government regulation in this area. Private regulation and the desire of people to get high quality healthcare would insure that only the best doctors and equipment etc etc would be found in a private hospital.
    • 7 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Davethedavedave)
    Like i stated, I am against all forms of government regulation in this area. Private regulation and the desire of people to get high quality healthcare would insure that only the best doctors and equipment etc etc would be found in a private hospital.
    Including abortion and euthanasia? As I say that's dodgy, you are assuming with no euthanasia regulation that every single doctor is totally unscrupulous.

    And how would you tell? Do the insurance firm provide a biomed PhD student to come to the hospital with me and check the doctor out for me? Because I'm reasonably well educated but I don't have the foggiest what a doctor does and anyone with a couple of science A levels could probably sound convincing to me, doesn't mean I want them operating on me.
    • 2 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Davethedavedave)
    Like i stated, I am against all forms of government regulation in this area. Private regulation and the desire of people to get high quality healthcare would insure that only the best doctors and equipment etc etc would be found in a private hospital.
    People's desire for quality healthcare and the insurer's desire to maximize profits argue against that. Low-hanging fruit and all.
    • Thread Starter
    • 7 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by gladders)
    Dave,

    Can you explain how America is 'too different' to be a good example for us to use in this field?

    And can you answer my point: private health insurers, in seeking to maximise profit, will avoid issuing healthcare to those who will need it the most. They award perfectly healthy people with cheap healthcare, while those badly needing it are enormously ripped off. Moreover, if you do try to claim it, they will seek in every way to avoid paying out.

    You claim the healthcare field should not be regulated at all. I can envision this being catastrophic - they would take people's money, and simply refuse to pay out when people try to claim.

    Can you address this please?
    You described the typical traits of a normal insurance company there.

    The fact that there will be a demand for the care means there will a supply for it. Thus, if a company is not paying out on claims, then they would simply get a bad reputation and customers would go where they can get the care they need.

    America is different from us on many different levels. I dont need to give examples as I dont want to digress to much. But because of that fact alone, any private enterprise emerging in private health care system would be different to what is found over there.


    About state regulation, and not for the first time. I oppose it it. However private regulation would be fine.
    • Thread Starter
    • 7 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by roh)
    Including abortion and euthanasia? As I say that's dodgy, you are assuming with no euthanasia regulation that every single doctor is totally unscrupulous.

    And how would you tell? Do the insurance firm provide a biomed PhD student to come to the hospital with me and check the doctor out for me? Because I'm reasonably well educated but I don't have the foggiest what a doctor does and anyone with a couple of science A levels could probably sound convincing to me, doesn't mean I want them operating on me.
    A genuine free market would mean that only the best people get to work in medical care. You paint a picture of 18 year old kids running around with scarpals, but this simply wouldn't happen. Any private enterprise seeking to make a profit would have the interest of there customers first and foremost.
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    I love how Dave has ignored the post which involves the word. "Cancer" and "Poor" and "Disabiled"
    • 2 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Davethedavedave)
    You described the typical traits of a normal insurance company there.
    Except for other fields of insurance, people have the option to decline to purchase the item that needs insurance in the first place (such as buying a car) or risk the danger never occurring at all (such as house insurance). Heathcare is different - you will need it, eventually, and inescapably.

    Hence, it should be considered a service, not a good.

    The fact that there will be a demand for the care means there will a supply for it. Thus, if a company is not paying out on claims, then they would simply get a bad reputation and customers would go where they can get the care they need.
    Sorry, no. The healthcare providers will conspire to keep their sweet deal going. The consumer will have no choice.

    America is different from us on many different levels. I dont need to give examples as I dont want to digress to much. But because of that fact alone, any private enterprise emerging in private health care system would be different to what is found over there.
    Without giving examples of America's differences your claim that it should be ignored should be disallowed. Again: America's healthcare system is sufficiently awful to warn against privatization.

    About state regulation, and not for the first time. I oppose it it. However private regulation would be fine.
    I simply don't trust private health insurers to regulate for the benefit of the patient.

Reply

Submit reply

Register

Thanks for posting! You just need to create an account in order to submit the post
  1. this can't be left blank
    that username has been taken, please choose another Forgotten your password?
  2. this can't be left blank
    this email is already registered. Forgotten your password?
  3. this can't be left blank

    6 characters or longer with both numbers and letters is safer

  4. this can't be left empty
    your full birthday is required
  1. By joining you agree to our Ts and Cs, privacy policy and site rules

  2. Slide to join now Processing…

Updated: April 18, 2012
New on TSR

Writing your personal statement

Our free PS builder tool makes it easy

Article updates
Useful resources
Reputation gems:
You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.