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Young British Muslims more conservative than their elders?

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    (Original post by kaboon-supreme)




    i don't personaly hate the west but they need to stop attacking anyone that speaks out aganist them.
    Firstly the West isn't just America, I don't see Germany, Canada or New Zealand "attacking everyone".

    Secondly, the West is just too damn powerful and too damn rich. It can do what the hell it wants because it is so successful. The Islamic world should stop living in the dark ages and actually create some successful societies if it wants to counter the West or else it will continue being screwed over, it's a dog eat dog world and the powerful dominate the weak I am afraid. The fact is, the custodian of the two holy mosques (the Saudis) are a American puppet installed by the British - sad state of affairs for for Muslims surely, yet most Muslims are perfectly happy about it. Funny eh?

    Keep ranting and raving, Muslims need to build successful countries or they are seriously going to get even more left in the dirt by the West, India and China. Rather than ranting about the West and how "filthy and disgusting" it is, maybe you should take a look at Islamic culture and ask some questions about why it is utterly dominated by the Western world, and identify what cultural problems are making it so weak and pathetic. You may consider the west filthy or whatever, but the fact is - it is powerful way, way, way beyond the Islamic world and is responsible for global creativity - the internet was created in Britain and America, not Egypt and Saudi Arabia. Maybe the Islamic World should adopt this "filthy culture" and you might one day stop being such pathetic pushovers. Look at Egypt, it just elects religious nutters to govern it - do you think the West and China are successful because they elected religious nutters to rule them? People are laughing at you mate, sort your own sad state of affairs out first.
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    but the americans and british are losing the war in afganistan like they lose the
    most of their unfair wars they pick, so this power thing you keep refering to is a myth
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    why is it when western contries pick a war why do they need another 15 other western countries to help them out. like if we count how many countries are in afghanistan then we would all be here next week
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    (Original post by kaboon-supreme)
    were do you get this idea of people being forced to a more conservative view. i am sorry but it is a myth. you people try to think you are right by making up things
    You're telling me that the childhood that my aunts, uncles and mother lived is a myth?
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    (Original post by kaboon-supreme)

    dark ages please explian what you mean by that term
    Most Islamic countries are in a dire state, like Pakistan, Yemen, Sudan, and many others. Is it worth considering that Islam is the common denominator that prevents many of the Muslim countries from taking their place alongside the developed countries of the world? Islam after all is an all-encompassing faith, personal life and politics included, and is fairly, if not overwhelmingly, rigid and unbending. Why do Muslims put up with Saudi Arabia, an oil rich state that cannot even stop it's own people from going hungry, yet places like Norway (which is run by educated and secular people) has used their oil money to create a society where everyone has money coming out of every pore, and a huge social welfare state?

    Look at Egypt. If they want to be as powerful as the West they need to focus on science, technology, education, bringing people out of poverty, creating a tolerant society so people come and immigrate brining their skills. Yet, who is elected to rule Egypt? Some religious nuts whose central message isn't one of development and national growth it is all about Quranic rule and so on. You are going to be stuck in the dark ages forever if this continues.

    For example the UAE is backwards. Have you ever heard of an Emirati scientist? good Emirati athlete? Have you ever heard about a building in Dubai designed by Emirati architects or engineers? They simply have money but they rely on foreign people they do not do anything themselves. Likewise for the rest of the gulf countries. The reason for this isn't because people are mentally retarded or anything... they're normal people with same capabilities of people like Europeans and the Muslim countries mostly have old great civilizations. However, today we have reached the age of democracy and secularism and those countries are still relying on religion and myths in laws and they desperately need to adopt the values that have made the West rich, and have made China rich - not continue living by religious law.

    A statistic I read awhile ago mentioned that the entire Arab world, with all its hundreds of millions of people, has non-oil exports that are equal to that of little Finland. Why is Finland with it's "filthy culture" so much more successful?

    (Original post by kaboon-supreme)
    but the americans and british are losing the war in afganistan like they lose the
    most of their unfair wars they pick, so this power thing you keep refering to is a myth
    Well this is another example. In Afghanistan instead of working with ISAF to build up a new country, Pakistan funds the Taliban to continually destabilise the country. Ultimately Western countries will leave in 2014 and Afghanistan will revert back to being a medieval country, it doesn't really make a difference to the West does it? It just means yet another muslim country has chosen religious rule over national development.
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    The new generations by-and-large aren't as competent in reading classical Arabic as their parents are, and as such have to rely on the translations available, which really don't do justice to the intricacy and subtlety of the language. As such, they get an understanding of the Qur'an which is less informed by the linguistic nuances and subtleties of the original Arabic and more informed by simplistic, insufficient translations.
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    (Original post by TheStudent.)
    Why do you care enough to ask him whether he cares if you care? To extend that, would you care to add a poll on whether or not TSR members care?
    Ouch. That's harsh.
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    There is a huge culture gap between those who accepted the Western Culture and those who are partaking in Islamic culture.

    Western countries do well economically because they couldn't care about abusing their workers and exploiting other countries. Furthermore, in economics, once you have money, you can subsidize everything in your country, making it more competitive worldwide, and it abuses other countries which cannot compete because they are already poor.

    In Islam, the payment and the claiming of interest is banned (well actually usury, but nonetheless, interest claiming is banned). The West pretty much relies on interest to make money whereas in Islamic culture, it is banned because in Islam you can only earn money for the quality and amount of work you do. Furthermore, in Islam it is required that they take care of the poor, thus there will not be companies which are ruthless and outsource their work to poor countries like Bangladesh and underpay the workers for cheap, cheap labour.

    Yes, it is a bit biased, but it's from my point of view since I experience both sides.
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    (Original post by electriic_ink)
    Their elders immigrated to this country partly because they didn't like the authoritarian, theocratic governments of the country from which they came. Their children, however, didn't so are more likely to be supportive of such rules coming into practice.
    erm.NO thats not why
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    (Original post by electriic_ink)
    Their elders immigrated to this country partly because they didn't like the authoritarian, theocratic governments of the country from which they came. Their children, however, didn't so are more likely to be supportive of such rules coming into practice.
    From which history book did you get this insightful info from? The majority of british musilms are from pakistan/bangladesh and came in the 60s/70s etc and was more to do with seeking work in northern factory towns etc..
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    (Original post by joey11223)
    Stumbled upon a few reports by independent think tanks on differing cultural views and It was interesting to see that in surveys the 16-24 age group of Muslims seem the most conservative, or at least more approving of certain aspects of Sharia law, then older generations.

    http://dvmx.com/British_Muslim_Youth.pdf (report I've just read here, there are other surveys too.)


    Just a few selected questions and comparisons..

    "The following is a list of laws that are defined in most scholarly
    interpretations of sharia law. Please say if you personally agree or
    disagree with the law mentioned..."

    1) That a Muslim woman may not marry a non-Muslim:

    16-24: 56% agree

    45-54: 40% agree

    2) That Muslim conversion is forbidden and punishable by death:

    16-24: 36% agree

    45+ (covers two age brackets, 45-54 and 55+): 19% agree

    3) That homosexuality is wrong and should be illegal:

    16-24: 71% agree

    45-54: 54% agree

    55+: 50% agree



    Just wondering why this is the case? I would have assumed that being born and growing up with a Western influence, over their parents and grandparents who may have immigrated here, todays Muslim youth would actually be more liberal then previous generations, yet the opposite appears true?
    British society was different back in their parents days so perhaps there wasn't the need to be too conservative . . . society today is greatly changed and some muslims may feel their values and views are better than current ones in britain . . . . also the whole issue of the war on terror nad the racial tensions in certain northern ****holes between whites and asians further adds to this conservatism and going back to their core asian/muslim values/beliefs etc.
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    (Original post by pinkcherrytart)
    erm.NO thats not why

    (Original post by MonkeyMan2009)
    From which history book did you get this insightful info from? The majority of british musilms are from pakistan/bangladesh and came in the 60s/70s etc and was more to do with seeking work in northern factory towns etc..
    Well if I found myself in a position where I had to move continents to find a job, I'd be pretty pissed off with the government and would want to dissociate myself from them as much as possible, and I can't see why Pakistanis wouldn't either.
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    (Original post by College_Dropout)
    The number of Muslims is growing tremendously, the older generation had a chance to do what they wish without there parents knowing, however, the current generation cant do nothing secretly as even friends and family will turn against them. The longer they keep living like this, the more they start believing in it.
    This is why you're a college dropout, dude.
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    (Original post by kaboon-supreme)
    were do you get this idea of people being forced to a more conservative view. i am sorry but it is a myth. you people try to think you are right by making up things
    From reading your posts, this is all I see you doing too. You're embarassing yourself my dear.

    And, like others have said, if you hate the West so much? Leave.
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    The parents came to the West for a reason, they knew they wanted to live in this society and they probably adapted more to it. The children were born here as immigrant children and probably suffered a certain identity crisis that reinforced old-fashioned Muslim beliefs.
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    I hate those people who came here but criticise the Western culture at every possible opportunity. If you don't like it, either keep your opinions to yourself or don't live here.

    For example, these are some of the things my dad says (who is a big critic of Western culture):

    Western culture is all about alcohol and sex.
    The kids here have no respect for anyone.
    Teenagers sleep with a different person every night.

    None of which I agree with. Western culture does not mean that everyone does all these things.
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    (Original post by avhhs)
    I hate those people who came here but criticise the Western culture at every possible opportunity. If you don't like it, either keep your opinions to yourself or don't live here.

    For example, these are some of the things my dad says (who is a big critic of Western culture):

    Western culture is all about alcohol and sex.
    The kids here have no respect for anyone.
    Teenagers sleep with a different person every night.

    None of which I agree with. Western culture does not mean that everyone does all these things.
    But it does promote it right?

    There are many things wrong with every culture, and I don't think the problem is that the people are "loose". It's more that the people in this type of culture don't give a damn about others and the negative impact their actions have on others. We've become to desensitized.

    And these are the values that people are told to honour in Islam. To care for one another, to make sure your selfish actions do not affects others in a negative manner and whatnot. This is why there are many Muslim people who criticize the West.

    As for telling people to leave the West if they'll criticize it.... Well there are numerous reasons why they came in the first place right? There are higher standards of living in the West. Mainly because it doesn't suffer from overpopulation. In Western countries, sex is mostly for pleasure, recreational if you will. In Abrahamic Religion, sex is primarily for reproduction. Thus we can see that the use of contraceptives are promoted in the west, but in Islamic countries they are avoided. And with many people in somewhat poor country, it is hard to live a luxurious life. So people move to Western countries to spread Islam but primarily to allow their families to live a better life.

    More serious people counter that suggestion by saying that they'll go back to their countries once the West leave theirs.... which is perfectly acceptable considering almost all countries are policed by the West and it ravages the hell out of those countries.
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    Thats actually surprised me, my experience of Muslims of that age (on the whole) is that they don't really care, and are quite liberal.
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    (Original post by Cyanohydrin)
    Most Islamic countries are in a dire state, like Pakistan, Yemen, Sudan, and many others. Is it worth considering that Islam is the common denominator that prevents many of the Muslim countries from taking their place alongside the developed countries of the world? Islam after all is an all-encompassing faith, personal life and politics included, and is fairly, if not overwhelmingly, rigid and unbending. Why do Muslims put up with Saudi Arabia, an oil rich state that cannot even stop it's own people from going hungry, yet places like Norway (which is run by educated and secular people) has used their oil money to create a society where everyone has money coming out of every pore, and a huge social welfare state?

    Look at Egypt. If they want to be as powerful as the West they need to focus on science, technology, education, bringing people out of poverty, creating a tolerant society so people come and immigrate brining their skills. Yet, who is elected to rule Egypt? Some religious nuts whose central message isn't one of development and national growth it is all about Quranic rule and so on. You are going to be stuck in the dark ages forever if this continues.

    For example the UAE is backwards. Have you ever heard of an Emirati scientist? good Emirati athlete? Have you ever heard about a building in Dubai designed by Emirati architects or engineers? They simply have money but they rely on foreign people they do not do anything themselves. Likewise for the rest of the gulf countries. The reason for this isn't because people are mentally retarded or anything... they're normal people with same capabilities of people like Europeans and the Muslim countries mostly have old great civilizations. However, today we have reached the age of democracy and secularism and those countries are still relying on religion and myths in laws and they desperately need to adopt the values that have made the West rich, and have made China rich - not continue living by religious law.

    A statistic I read awhile ago mentioned that the entire Arab world, with all its hundreds of millions of people, has non-oil exports that are equal to that of little Finland. Why is Finland with it's "filthy culture" so much more successful?



    Well this is another example. In Afghanistan instead of working with ISAF to build up a new country, Pakistan funds the Taliban to continually destabilise the country. Ultimately Western countries will leave in 2014 and Afghanistan will revert back to being a medieval country, it doesn't really make a difference to the West does it? It just means yet another muslim country has chosen religious rule over national development.

    muslims made almost every great thing in history( maths,astronomy,art,watches and many more) most of europe was dying of headaches while muslims were looking at stars and inventing chemistry. as you enjoy coffee while insulting muslims, remember that it was made by a yameni muslim. while your people in europe were dying of bellyaches muslims were building the greates architecture that the world has ever seen. europeans have only been prominant in the last 200 years hence they used all of their power to distroy other civilizations, but now thank allah that other greate nations are rising(brazil,china,russia,india ,turky and iran).if the UAE is soo backward then why is it full of westerners. and for saudi arabia having poor people, american have more homeless and poor people not to mension there is no crime in saudi arabia.


    the uae is backward but has a high western population same us in saudi arabia, qatar,oman and every other gulf ccountries. you said afghanistan will go back to being medieval. if so why do the christans keep starting wars there, the last 100 years look what the afghans been through( british,soviets,americans).

    why do muslim countries have almost no crime rate. rape and child abuse is unheard of in muslim countries and murder rate is almost zero. tell me a western country with a low crime rate.
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    (Original post by Bloodrazor)
    But it does promote it right?

    There are many things wrong with every culture, and I don't think the problem is that the people are "loose". It's more that the people in this type of culture don't give a damn about others and the negative impact their actions have on others. We've become to desensitized.

    And these are the values that people are told to honour in Islam. To care for one another, to make sure your selfish actions do not affects others in a negative manner and whatnot. This is why there are many Muslim people who criticize the West.

    As for telling people to leave the West if they'll criticize it.... Well there are numerous reasons why they came in the first place right? There are higher standards of living in the West. Mainly because it doesn't suffer from overpopulation. In Western countries, sex is mostly for pleasure, recreational if you will. In Abrahamic Religion, sex is primarily for reproduction. Thus we can see that the use of contraceptives are promoted in the west, but in Islamic countries they are avoided. And with many people in somewhat poor country, it is hard to live a luxurious life. So people move to Western countries to spread Islam but primarily to allow their families to live a better life.

    More serious people counter that suggestion by saying that they'll go back to their countries once the West leave theirs.... which is perfectly acceptable considering almost all countries are policed by the West and it ravages the hell out of those countries.

    every culture has proplem but some have less proplems then others and i think we know who those are.lol


    keep up the good work

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