[joey11223]

(Original post by mortaz786)
Well I'm muslim and have been brought up beliving it is wrong..

plus the idea of it makes me want to throw up.....

Well I'm Atheist and I've been brought up to accept different sexual orientations exist.

The idea of killing two men because they love one another romantically, not out of choice but because of innate sexuality, makes me want to throw up.

So if we use the same logic that you can decide someone deserves to die because the idea of their activities sicken you. I should be able to say people with your views deserve the death penalty since they sicken me.

Weighing the two, the world would be better off without humans that think as you do with divisive, discriminatory and hateful (one must truly hate something to wish death to someone for it) thinking. Obviously it's down to the religion though and one day it'll be a distant memory like all other religions are...lost to the sands of time like those that have come before it.

..I don't quite think what you've said has sunk in. Homosexuality deserves a death sentence..wow...fascinating stuff.

[KimKallstrom]

(Original post by illuminating)
Yes because most of the older generation did not attend Mosque as they weren't many mosques around, therefore they are less religious and culture is much more important to them.But almost all of the newer/younger generation go to Mosque and attend Islamic lectures and many get taught that the western lifestyle is haraam.

Or because the younger ones who have never lived in Pakistan/Bangladesh don't know how lucky they are.

[Politricks]

(Original post by mortaz786)
It doesn't harm me in anyway but I just find it morally wrong.

Also Gays having kids makes me feel sooo sorry for the kid....

What will he say at school when people ask him "how your mum?"

Only 150 or so years ago, Whites in America thought that a Black man marrying a White woman was morally wrong, even though it didn't harm them in anyway. Whites in America thought in a similar way as you are right now, they used to think "I'll feel so sorry for the kid of the inter-racial couple, he'll feel left out if he sees every other kid has white fathers, but he has a black father, and he won't fit in because he won't be white himself either", and this is why there were White Americans who felt that it was okay to kill/lynch a black man for dating or marrying a white woman, even though interracial marriages didn't harm anybody around them.

Just to make things clear, I'm a straight male, but what a man and a man do in the privacy of their own homes isn't any of your business, and it's not any of your business to then stick your nose in and say "Oh, you deserve to be executed". We live in 21st century Britain, not 7th century Arabia, ironically in this day and age, Saudi Arabia's legal system is still stuck in the 7th century.

[mortaz786]

(Original post by Politricks)
We live in 21st century Britain, not 7th century Arabia, ironically in this day and age, Saudi Arabia's legal system is still stuck in the 7th century.

Sorry but Saudi Arabias legal system is the best.

Robber/Thief= hand chopped of (they deserve it)
Adulterer=castrated ( ask the person they have been cheating on, they will tell you they deserve it).

[de_monies]

(Original post by Darth Stewie)
looking at the numbers they got 20 or less people from each age group answering the questions, can anybody see any information on how they formed the study group? Because going into the middle of Bradford and asking these questions to Muslims is going to yield very different results than going to places where the politicization of Islam is less rampant.

74% of 16-24 year olds would prefer Muslim women to choose to wear the veil, compared to only 28% of 55+ year olds.

In all fairness, that is an ambiguous statement. It could really be considered as two different questions

ie: Do you want women to have the option to choose to wear the veil or to not - implying that women should be able to have a choice or

Do you think that women should wear the veil?

Before they could get that statement. I think I'd refuse to answer based on the ambiguity of the statement

[Vozhak]

(Original post by mortaz786)
It doesn't harm me in anyway but I just find it morally wrong.

Also Gays having kids makes me feel sooo sorry for the kid....

What will he say at school when people ask him "how your mum?"

You don't harm me in anyway but you feel morally wrong to me, somebody with your views should not be allowed to consume air or scare resources.

I feel sorry for any future kids you may have...

What will they say when people ask " how is your knuckle dragging bigoted pig of a dad?"

[Politricks]

(Original post by mortaz786)
Sorry but Saudi Arabias legal system is the best.

Robber/Thief= hand chopped of (they deserve it)
Adulterer=castrated ( ask the person they have been cheating on, they will tell you they deserve it).

And people who practise supposed "witchcraft" and those who renounce Islam get executed, England has moved away from that, witch hunting and the state endorsement of executing those who oppose Catholicism is a thing of the past.

[silent ninja]

Because the younger and current generation are more educated especially in Islam, and also aware due to the political climate.. The older generation are out of touch and more based in culture than religion. The newer generations are more British (books/magazines they read, movies, the way they talk, dress etc) and Islamic too.

How many people did the survey ask, 20?that's useless.

[RadiantA]

The data is pretty ambiguous. To make any real comments we need to know the sample size, the sample distribution. The type of sampling method used, in which areas these samples were taken - even all this can't account for just random errors. Correlation is not cause.

I can't say I can trust the statistics given to me.

[Ayshizzle]

(Original post by mortaz786)
Sorry but Saudi Arabias legal system is the best.

Robber/Thief= hand chopped of (they deserve it)
Adulterer=castrated ( ask the person they have been cheating on, they will tell you they deserve it).

Then go live there!

I don't know why so many Muslims seem to bum off Saudi, their leaders are the ultimate hypocrites.

[orcprocess]

(Original post by RadiantA)
The data is pretty ambiguous. To make any real comments we need to know the sample size, the sample distribution. The type of sampling method used, in which areas these samples were taken - even all this can't account for just random errors. Correlation is not cause.

I can't say I can trust the statistics given to me.

They used Populus, an independent polling company. The sample size was 1003 muslims. They weighted the muslim sample in order for it to reflect the demographic of the entire muslim population.

[de_monies]

(Original post by Ayshizzle)
I don't know why so many Muslims seem to bum off Saudi,

I don't

(Original post by Ayshizzle)
their leaders are the ultimate hypocrites.

Yeah, there's a book apparently called "The daughters of Arabia" which highlights the hypocrisy of the people in power - and the fact that a Muslim country run by a monarchy is at odds with Islam any way

[RadiantA]

(Original post by Politricks)
And people who practise supposed "witchcraft" and those who renounce Islam get executed, England has moved away from that, witch hunting and the state endorsement of executing those who oppose Catholicism is a thing of the past.

I have to admit the Saudi Justice system in once sense is very good, though the whole morality of it I have no comments on. Our system still has very old and out dated laws that have not been removed.

Philip Luther, the interim direct of Amnesty International's Middle East and North Africa program, condemned Nassar's killing, calling it "deeply shocking."

"The charges of 'witchcraft and sorcery' are not defined as crimes in Saudi Arabia and to use them to subject someone to the cruel and extreme penalty of execution is truly appalling," Luther said.

Luther said that a charge of sorcery is often used by the Saudi government as a smokescreen under which they punish people for exercising freedom of speech.

How have you been by the way?

Edit: Saudi Arabia's pretty corrupt by the way and I have no idea why it has entered this conversation

[Ayshizzle]

(Original post by de_monies)
I don't

Good to hear! It appears that an awful lot of Muslims are horribly misinformed about what goes on over there. They're meant to be an Islamic state but you don;t see much actual Islam there.

Yeah, there's a book apparently called "The daughters of Arabia" which highlights the hypocrisy of the people in power - and the fact that a Muslim country run by a monarchy is at odds with Islam any way

Ahhh I just googled that book, it's a sequel to a book called Princess that my mum was telling me about. It does detail the appauling way they treat women and what huge hypocrites they are. They ban alcohol, gambling, adultery etc but do it themselves?!

Not to mention that they're happily in bed with all the leaders of the West that are invading Muslim countries.

Sorry /rant

[RadiantA]

(Original post by orcprocess)
They used Populus, an independent polling company. The sample size was 1003 muslims. They weighted the muslim sample in order for it to reflect the demographic of the entire muslim population.

hmm... How was the interview carried out. The only way to have a truly fair representative is to have a census. As it was weighted I'm unsure as it could be slightly biased as we may find a large community of Muslims concentrated in a single area influencing the results. As they share the same environment they could share the same beliefs thus deeply influencing the results. We really need a Census to be accurate.

Though on the face of it - what your saying seems to make the statistics more respectable, I just need to cross reference it for myself later.

[Politricks]

(Original post by RadiantA)
I have to admit the Saudi Justice system in once sense is very good, though the whole morality of it I have no comments on. Our system still has very old and out dated laws that have not been removed.

Philip Luther, the interim direct of Amnesty International's Middle East and North Africa program, condemned Nassar's killing, calling it "deeply shocking."

"The charges of 'witchcraft and sorcery' are not defined as crimes in Saudi Arabia and to use them to subject someone to the cruel and extreme penalty of execution is truly appalling," Luther said.

Luther said that a charge of sorcery is often used by the Saudi government as a smokescreen under which they punish people for exercising freedom of speech.

How have you been by the way?

Edit: Saudi Arabia's pretty corrupt by the way and I have no idea why it has entered this conversation

Saudi Arabia's legal system is effective at keeping order, but the morality of its legal system is questionable. Cutting somebody's hand off for stealing, let's say, a pair of shoes is effective at deterring other thieves, but is it really worth cutting somebody's hand for stealing shoes?

Ah yes, I've heard about people being punished for things which aren't illegal crimes in Saudi Arabia, for example, females driving cars, it's not a defined crime, but you still get arrested for doing so if you're a female.

Yeah, I've been great, what about you?

[Politricks]

(Original post by Ayshizzle)
Then go live there!

I don't know why so many Muslims seem to bum off Saudi, their leaders are the ultimate hypocrites.

This!

I also find it strange when hypocritical Muslim youths in this country who drink, take drugs and have sex with many girls, glorify and look up to the religious elite in Saudi Arabia as if they don't realise that what they do in this country would sanction 30, 40, 50 or even 100 lashes if they did so in Saudi Arabia.

[The Racist Dragon]

(Original post by kaboon-supreme)
i think the main difference is that they can see what is realy going on in western society. they see can see the real image other then the 'perfect civilization' that western media portrays is false and deep down it is SICK and TWISTED. these people see the dirty little secrets that westerners try to hide. i mean if you go on the news then you will see what i mean. front page stories like father locks up doughter for 24 years and rapes her, 15 year old son kills his mother and not to mension the horrid sexual crimes that one could only imagin. they don't want their sister suffering the same fate as a 14 year old pregnant british girl, hence they are more conservative.

For every shocking story you find that has happened in the west, I can find you 10 that happened in the east.

[harmony_01]

(Original post by Politricks)
Saudi Arabia's legal system is effective at keeping order, but the morality of its legal system is questionable. Cutting somebody's hand off for stealing, let's say, a pair of shoes is effective at deterring other thieves, but is it really worth cutting somebody's hand for stealing shoes?

Ah yes, I've heard about people being punished for things which aren't illegal crimes in Saudi Arabia, for example, females driving cars, it's not a defined crime, but you still get arrested for doing so if you're a female.

Yeah, I've been great, what about you?

Ask the Saudi government why they ban driving? I don't think this is a general rule because the religious police are banned from going to certain compounds scattered around the Kingdom. Who knows what happens in there? *Raises left eyebrow*


If you were to steal shoes for an infinite number of times, that punishment isn't applicable. My question to you is, have you read a comprehensive book on Shar'iah doctrine, particularly its penal code or spoke to an Imam?

What I find often is that many here have not and are often deeply tempted to superimpose the ideals they have been brought up on Islamic societies. Likewise with a certain section of Muslims too. People just end up with a skewed conclusion.

[orcprocess]

(Original post by RadiantA)
hmm... How was the interview carried out.

For the poll results? Through telephone and internet questionnaires .

The only way to have a truly fair representative is to have a census.

But questioning 3% of the population is not an option for researchers. Besides when finding out voting intentions they only use samples of about 2,000.

As it was weighted I'm unsure as it could be slightly biased as we may find a large community of Muslims concentrated in a single area influencing the results. As they share the same environment they could share the same beliefs thus deeply influencing the results. We really need a Census to be accurate.

Weighted so that the sample who were interviewed reflected the demographic as a whole (e.g. if 75% of Muslims live in cities then the sample will have 75% who live in cities.)

Though on the face of it - what your saying seems to make the statistics more respectable, I just need to cross reference it for myself later.

The thing is that the authors of this are Muslims so are unlikely to want to portray it in a negative light. It's page 19 in the report by the way.