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The Pain Jesus suffered :(

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    (Original post by SaintSoldier)
    I know that they were tortured throughout the daylight hours (from historical texts, some were tortured in public to humiliate them) but I don't know what happened at night tbh



    They indeed suffered for what they believed in, perhaps also dying for others to see the truth they saw. Their deaths and Jesus' death are similar, but if we were to take in everything and compared their suffering by what is written concerning them, Jesus suffered more than any man. (Again if you take in what is written concerning them)



    Where they died for their beliefs, Jesus died for all mankind to their salvation. He died even for those who will not receive Him, and forgave those who were beating and mocking Him.


    Here's some of the things He went through....



    1. He was struck and beating many times by both the Jewish Temple guards and Roman guards.

    2. He was whipped until the bones of His back were exposed.

    3. He had hair plucked from His beard.

    4. Was struck in the head with metal rods

    5. Was spat on

    6. Probably was completely naked on the cross.

    7. Had a crown of thorns shoved onto His head.

    8. Was forced to carry His own cross most of the way, while being mocked and spat on.

    9. Finally (if you accept the account) all the sins of the world, all the depression and guilt, was laid on His being. He felt all the depression that every suicidal person has felt, all at one time. (Some say that is why the sky grew dark and there was a great earthquake, because all the sin of the world could be found right there on Jesus' being)



    Those are the things Jesus dealt with concerning His excecution. Now if all the sin of the world was truly laid on Jesus, there's no question He went through unimaginable suffering. Most people only consider the pain that Jesus went through, but I could go on and on about the other things. Things even most Christians don't think about.



    Yet if we are comparing just the pain parts of it all, and the length of that pain during excecution, maybe you could compare it to others sufferings as well.
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    (Original post by Okashira)
    Nowhere did I say their pain was meaningless. Yet comparing the length, it takes a longer time to die on the cross. Now you said their torture lasted for two weeks. I imagine they were isolated for periods of time in between, before they were ultimately excecuted. The worst excecution method, is one where it takes time before you ultimately die.
    You can make death by exsanguination take almost as long as you like, but that doesn't make it an unpleasant way to go - it's a slow death that's probably less traumatic than most quick ones. Duration is not the same as trauma.

    How about Scaphism or Lingchi? Crucifixion sounds like a doddle by comparison.
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    (Original post by SaintSoldier)
    If Satan is a problem, then why create him in the first place?
    Hello SaintSoldier,

    That's a really good question that many people would like to know.

    I personally believe that life and free will in life requires another option. So, satan is basically the instigator of the "other options" to obeying God. For example, when Adam and Eve were tempted, the instigator was the serpent (which people believe symbolizes satan, or satan was in the form of a serpent in order to deceive them) If they didn't have the other option, free will is pointless.

    For example, if you had no choice but to do something, what is the point of having free will?

    Another reason is because I believe that life on earth includes an antagonist. In nature, you see antagonism all the time... two males fighting for a female, a mother killing to get food for her babies, a herbivore fighting to stay alive, and so on. In movies and books that people make up, the antagonist, or "bad guy" is important for good stories, because most people LOVE a good fight where the good guy wins. Why? I think it's built in our souls to want to strive against something/someone and win. That's why competition is so popular too.

    So, I personally believe God created satan for
    1. other options, as opposed to people only having the option of obeying Him, thus fully enabling free will.
    2. for the antagonistic role in life.

    How is it possible for God to suffer? How is it possible for God to feel pain?
    It is possible for any being who is aware of self to suffer. God is the Supreme Being who gets angry, is pleased, and actively communicates with His Creation of humans. He allows Himself to be connected emotionally (and spiritually!) with humans, so in that sense (the emotional sense, as well as in the spiritual sense if the spiritual connection is severed) it is possible for God to feel pain.

    Sorry if I sound a bit harsh here (I don't intend to be) but I don't know much about Christianity so I'm just asking questions, that's all.
    Not harsh at all. These are great questions.

    I definitely second this. Christians talk a lot about Jesus went through, but they don't give it a second thought that many people in history have had it a lot worse than Jesus.
    Actually, many Christians do think about what many people in history have and do go through. That is why you have organizations that many Christians are involved in, such as the Red Cross. Have you ever researched how the Red Cross came to exist? Christian beliefs emphasize caring for the poor and those who are suffering.

    As a Christian lady, one thing that makes me weep is the idea that God, who is Spirit and fills the universe and is everywhere, who has no limits in knowledge, time, place, and power, stayed God, and yet at the same time (for nothing is impossible with God) took the form of a human man, and suffered what billions of people have suffered and will and do suffer... pain.

    That is like a human who if he/she had the power, could take on the form of being an insect and experience the death of an insect being exterminated.

    It is amazing God's love for His Creation, to do this, and I know to many Christians, those who have a hard time with the pain and injustice innocent people suffer, all the rapes and torture and murders and persecutions of people all around the world since the first murder, we are comforted by the belief that God, who is above physical pain, took it upon himself to personally experience what His Creation has experienced... pain and death.

    However, Jesus did not stay dead. God rose him from the dead!!! Christians believe that this life on earth isn't the all-in-all, but rather that someday those who die will rise from the dead too, and will experience true everlasting life!

    To those who do not believe this, that is fine that you don't. You are perfectly entitled to believe what you do, including if you believe there is no God. Thank God, most of us live in countries where freedom of religion is a right, and I hope you consider that, even if you believe a belief is wrong.

    Concerning other Christians and me, Jesus dying on the cross is the greatest form of love a person can show for another... to give up life in order to save lives. Jesus gave up his life on earth (after he rose from the dead, he ascended into Heaven) and saved people spiritually. It doesn't matter to us if other people think we are crazy or not. What matters to us is loving God because He first loved us!!!

    Peace and God bless you
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    (Original post by MrHayden)
    Easter was originally a pagan festival, in celebration of Eostre, the fertility godess...
    Hello MrHayden,

    It is interesting that the name "Easter" has become synonymous with when English-speaking Christians remember Jesus' death and resurrection. However, Jesus was Jewish and was observing the Passover with his apostles before he died and was resurrected from the dead.

    In Spanish, they say "Pascua" for Passover and for what English speaking Christians call "Easter."

    Peace and God bless you
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    (Original post by Christianlady)
    Hello MrHayden,

    It is interesting that the name "Easter" has become synonymous with when English-speaking Christians remember Jesus' death and resurrection. However, Jesus was Jewish and was observing the Passover with his apostles before he died and was resurrected from the dead.

    In Spanish, they say "Pascua" for Passover and for what English speaking Christians call "Easter."

    Peace and God bless you
    ... That's all well and good. I struggle to see how it is relevant. Some people claim Jesus was ressurected around the same time of year as a pagan festival, and so adjust the meaning of that pagan festival to gently introduce Christianity to the pagan population. What has the Spanish word for Passover got to do with it?
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    (Original post by MrHayden)
    ... That's all well and good. I struggle to see how it is relevant. Some people claim Jesus was ressurected around the same time of year as a pagan festival, and so adjust the meaning of that pagan festival to gently introduce Christianity to the pagan population. What has the Spanish word for Passover got to do with it?
    Hello MrHayden,


    It is interesting to me that in English, "Easter" is used by English speaking Christians. I personally don't see why, since Jesus was not a worshiper of Eostre.

    Jesus, a Jewish man, followed the Tanakkh and observed the Passover, along with his apostles.

    "Pascua", the Spanish term, does seem to derive from "Pesach", for Passover. However, Easter, as you mentioned, is a word derived from a goddess, not from a Jewish holiday.

    However, most Christians who celebrate Jesus' resurrection and call this holiday "Easter" do not do so as a holiday dedicated to a pagan goddess, but rather sincerely believe it is a special time to remember what Jesus did. Because of this, "Easter" does not have the same meaning to them, since they do not worship the gods/goddesses of the other beliefs.

    Regardless of the language and what people call it, Christians, including me, can remember what Jesus did on the cross for people every day though, not just on one day of the year!

    Peace and God bless you
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    (Original post by Christianlady)
    Hello MrHayden,


    It is interesting to me that in English, "Easter" is used by English speaking Christians. I personally don't see why, since Jesus was not a worshiper of Eostre.

    Jesus, a Jewish man, followed the Tanakkh and observed the Passover, along with his apostles.

    "Pascua", the Spanish term, does seem to derive from "Pesach", for Passover. However, Easter, as you mentioned, is a word derived from a goddess, not from a Jewish holiday.

    However, most Christians who celebrate Jesus' resurrection and call this holiday "Easter" do not do so as a holiday dedicated to a pagan goddess, but rather sincerely believe it is a special time to remember what Jesus did. Because of this, "Easter" does not have the same meaning to them, since they do not worship the gods/goddesses of the other beliefs.

    Regardless of the language and what people call it, Christians, including me, can remember what Jesus did on the cross for people every day though, not just on one day of the year!

    Peace and God bless you
    Oh I see what you mean. Well, it doesn't change the fact that the festival isn't actually a Christian one, it is just one that Christians attached their meaning to. It isn't really worth arguing about.

    Peace and Thor grant you the power of a thousand warriors.
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    Anyone else find it a bit sick to read an argument over whose religious heroes died in a more brutal way?
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    Jesus (peace be upon him) was a muslim..
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    Christians need not to worry or become frustrated with all the doubters who are hostile, insulting and dismissive towards our Christian faith, for it is the Lord who will ultimately judge them; their time will come, and they will know the truth.
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    (Original post by kbilly)
    Christians need not to worry or become frustrated with all the doubters who are hostile, insulting and dismissive towards our Christian faith, for it is the Lord who will ultimately judge them; their time will come, and they will know the truth.
    Nice of him to tell us the truth after our fates have been sealed, isn't it?
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    (Original post by jameslad)
    Jesus (peace be upon him) was a muslim..
    :rofl: :rofl3:
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    (Original post by gltw)
    :rofl: :rofl3:
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    (Original post by Christianlady)
    Hello,

    This weekend, many Christians are remembering what we believe happened concerning the suffering and pain Jesus endured: Jesus, who we believe is the Messiah, the King who God promised to be on the throne of King David forever, the Son of God.

    We believe that Jesus fulfills and will fulfill the prophesies that God gave to the Israelite people. Even though I understand that many Jewish people do not accept Jesus, and they have their reasons, and they are to be respected and loved and not persecuted or killed or hurt for it. Sad to say, many "Christians" have persecuted and hurt and forced converted and killed others for not being their kind of "Christian."

    However, even if you are an Atheist or a person of another belief in God, maybe you are interested in what Christians believe and why, though of course you do not agree. Below are some of the prophesies that Christians believe Jesus fulfills, including the pain and suffering he endured for us.

    Spoiler:
    Show

    1 Chronicles 17 (NIV) - I boldened some.

    " “‘I declare to you that the LORD will build a house for you: 11 When your days are over and you go to be with your ancestors, I will raise up your offspring to succeed you, one of your own sons, and I will establish his kingdom. 12 He is the one who will build a house for me, and I will establish his throne forever. 13 I will be his father, and he will be my son. I will never take my love away from him, as I took it away from your predecessor. 14 I will set him over my house and my kingdom forever; his throne will be established forever.’”

    15 Nathan reported to David all the words of this entire revelation. "

    Psalm 2 (NIV) - I boldened some.

    "4 The One enthroned in heaven laughs;
    the Lord scoffs at them.
    5 He rebukes them in his anger
    and terrifies them in his wrath, saying,
    6 “I have installed my king
    on Zion, my holy mountain.”

    7 I will proclaim the LORD’s decree:

    He said to me, “You are my son;
    today I have become your father.

    8 Ask me,
    and I will make the nations your inheritance,
    the ends of the earth your possession. "

    Psalm 89 (NIV) - I boldened some.

    "19 Once you spoke in a vision,
    to your faithful people you said:
    “I have bestowed strength on a warrior;
    I have raised up a young man from among the people.
    20 I have found David my servant;
    with my sacred oil I have anointed him.
    21 My hand will sustain him;
    surely my arm will strengthen him.
    22 The enemy will not get the better of him;
    the wicked will not oppress him.
    23 I will crush his foes before him
    and strike down his adversaries.
    24 My faithful love will be with him,
    and through my name his horn[f] will be exalted.
    25 I will set his hand over the sea,
    his right hand over the rivers.
    26 He will call out to me, ‘You are my Father,
    my God, the Rock my Savior.’
    27 And I will appoint him to be my firstborn,
    the most exalted of the kings of the earth.
    28 I will maintain my love to him forever,
    and my covenant with him will never fail.
    29 I will establish his line forever,
    his throne as long as the heavens endure. "


    Psalm 22 (NIV) - I boldened some and placed references to where Christians believe Jesus fulfills specific prophesies, accounted in the New Testament.

    " In Hebrew texts 22:1-31 is numbered 22:2-32
    .

    For the director of music. To the tune of “The Doe of the Morning.” A psalm of David.

    1 My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? (Matthew 27:46)
    Why are you so far from saving me,
    so far from my cries of anguish?
    2 My God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer,
    by night, but I find no rest.[Or night, and am not silent]

    3 Yet you are enthroned as the Holy One;
    you are the one Israel praises.[Or Yet you are holy, / enthroned on the praises of Israel]
    4 In you our ancestors put their trust;
    they trusted and you delivered them.
    5 To you they cried out and were saved;
    in you they trusted and were not put to shame.

    6 But I am a worm and not a man,
    scorned by everyone, despised by the people.
    7 All who see me mock me;
    they hurl insults, shaking their heads.
    8 “He trusts in the LORD,” they say,
    “let the LORD rescue him. (Matthew 27:41-43)
    Let him deliver him,
    since he delights in him.”


    9 Yet you brought me out of the womb;
    you made me trust in you, even at my mother’s breast.
    10 From birth I was cast on you;
    from my mother’s womb you have been my God.

    11 Do not be far from me,
    for trouble is near
    and there is no one to help.

    12 Many bulls surround me;
    strong bulls of Bashan encircle me.
    13 Roaring lions that tear their prey
    open their mouths wide against me.
    14 I am poured out like water,
    and all my bones are out of joint.

    My heart has turned to wax;
    it has melted within me.
    15 My mouth[Probable reading of the original Hebrew text; Masoretic Text strength] is dried up like a potsherd,
    and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth;
    you lay me in the dust of death.


    16 Dogs surround me,
    a pack of villains encircles me;
    they pierce[Dead Sea Scrolls and some manuscripts of the Masoretic Text, Septuagint and Syriac; most manuscripts of the Masoretic Text me, / like a lion] my hands and my feet.

    17 All my bones are on display;
    people stare and gloat over me.
    18 They divide my clothes among them
    and cast lots for my garment.
    (Matthew 27:35)

    19 But you, LORD, do not be far from me.
    You are my strength; come quickly to help me.
    20 Deliver me from the sword,
    my precious life from the power of the dogs.
    21 Rescue me from the mouth of the lions;
    save me from the horns of the wild oxen.

    22 I will declare your name to my people;
    in the assembly I will praise you.
    23 You who fear the LORD, praise him!
    All you descendants of Jacob, honor him!
    Revere him, all you descendants of Israel!
    24 For he has not despised or scorned
    the suffering of the afflicted one;
    he has not hidden his face from him
    but has listened to his cry for help.

    25 From you comes the theme of my praise in the great assembly;
    before those who fear you[Hebrew him] I will fulfill my vows.
    26 The poor will eat and be satisfied;
    those who seek the LORD will praise him—
    may your hearts live forever!

    27 All the ends of the earth
    will remember and turn to the LORD,
    and all the families of the nations
    will bow down before him,
    28 for dominion belongs to the LORD
    and he rules over the nations.

    29 All the rich of the earth will feast and worship;
    all who go down to the dust will kneel before him—
    those who cannot keep themselves alive.
    30 Posterity will serve him;
    future generations will be told about the Lord.
    31 They will proclaim his righteousness,
    declaring to a people yet unborn:
    He has done it! "


    Isaiah 52 (NIV) - I boldened some.

    " 13 See, my servant will act wisely[Or will prosper];
    he will be raised and lifted up and highly exalted.
    14 Just as there were many who were appalled at him[Hebrew you]—
    his appearance was so disfigured beyond that of any human being
    and his form marred beyond human likeness—
    15 so he will sprinkle many nations,[Or so will many nations be amazed at him (see also Septuagint)]

    and kings will shut their mouths because of him.
    For what they were not told, they will see,
    and what they have not heard, they will understand."

    Isaiah 53 (NIV) - I boldened some and placed references from New Testament in parenthesis)

    " 1 Who has believed our message
    and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?
    2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
    and like a root out of dry ground.
    He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
    nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
    3 He was despised and rejected by mankind,
    a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
    Like one from whom people hide their faces
    he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.

    4 Surely he took up our pain
    and bore our suffering,
    yet we considered him punished by God,
    stricken by him, and afflicted.
    5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
    he was crushed for our iniquities;
    the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
    and by his wounds we are healed.
    6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
    each of us has turned to our own way;
    and the LORD has laid on him
    the iniquity of us all.
    7 He was oppressed and afflicted,
    yet he did not open his mouth;
    he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,(John 1 :29)

    and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
    so he did not open his mouth. (Matthew 26:62-63)
    8 By oppression[Or From arrest] and judgment he was taken away.
    Yet who of his generation protested?
    For he was cut off from the land of the living;
    for the transgression of my people he was punished.[Or generation considered / that he was cut off from the land of the living, / that he was punished for the transgression of my people?]
    9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
    and with the rich in his death,
    though he had done no violence,
    nor was any deceit in his mouth.


    10 Yet it was the LORD’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
    and though the LORD makes[Hebrew though you make] his life an offering for sin,

    he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
    and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand.
    11 After he has suffered,
    he will see the light of life[Dead Sea Scrolls (see also Septuagint); Masoretic Text does not have the light of life.] and be satisfied[Or (with Masoretic Text) He will see the fruit of his suffering / and will be satisfied];
    by his knowledge[Or by knowledge of him] my righteous servant will justify many,
    and he will bear their iniquities.
    12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,[Or many]
    and he will divide the spoils with the strong,[Or numerous]
    because he poured out his life unto death,
    and was numbered with the transgressors.
    For he bore the sin of many,
    and made intercession for the transgressors. "

    (Matthew 1:20-21)

    The miraculous birth of Jesus (which most Christians celebrate during the holiday Christmas) and the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus (which most Christians remember and celebrate on Easter) are extremely important beliefs that Christians have concerning Jesus.

    Sad to say, some "Christians" have persecuted and murdered Jewish people, calling them "Christ killers.' However, true Christians understand the following points:

    1. Jesus, his mother Mary, his 12 apostles, and the early Christians are all Jewish (descendants of Israel/Jacob, son of Isaac, son of Abraham)
    2. We all "killed" Jesus, everyone, not just the Jewish people... we all did, with the Roman soldiers being specifically those who did. Our sins are what hurt and killed him.
    3. There are till this day Jewish believers in Jesus, as well as Gentiles by God's grace. (See Acts 10 and Acts 15, when the first Gentile believers "officially" believed in Jesus.) Jesus' suffering is NOT to motivate his followers to kill or hurt others NO, but rather Christians believe that because of Jesus' suffering and death, God forgives us of our sins through the blood Jesus shed once for all. Christians believe that Jesus' suffering and death fulfills the animal sacrifices God commanded the Israelites to do in from the time of Moses. (See the Torah)

    Christians believe that God loves people so much that through Jesus' suffering and death, He felt physical pain like people all over the world sadly and tragically feel pain. Terribly, thousands and thousands of people all over the world through generations have felt pain through torture, rape, disease, murder, and so on. Christians believe that God felt pain for us, because of His love and mercy for us, through the pain Jesus endured. However, Christians also believe that God rose Jesus from the dead and that people will one day rise from the dead too!

    So, even though this may not be what you believe, maybe it helps you understand a little better what Christians believe?

    Even though you may totally 100% disagree with all the above, could you please respect it? If you would like to explain in a courteous and intellectual way why you disagree, that would be interesting to read why. This thread is NOT to persuade you to believe what I and other Christians believe, but rather to explain a little why Christians believe it.


    Thanks for your patience if you read all this long thread.

    Peace and God bless you, and Happy Easter to those who remember Jesus' crucifixion and celebrate Jesus' resurrection, and Happy Easter to those who just enjoy decorating eggs and snuggling adorable chicks and bunny rabbits (animals, not females lol) and Happy Passover to those who are Jewish who remember when God rescued the Israelites out of slavery in Egypt, and I am so sorry on behalf of all "Christians" who persecute, mock, insult, and have killed Jewish people and other people.

    May God help all people of whatever belief (or no belief in God) to live in peace!
    How many frogs did God needless murder when he sent the plagues to Egypt. and why?...poor frogs.
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    (Original post by Left Hand Drive)
    How many frogs did God needless murder when he sent the plagues to Egypt. and why?...poor frogs.
    You are also forgetting Noah's flood. Think of all those giraffes, lions and puppies that drowned when god had a hissy fit and decided to go ott and flood the entire world just because some humans were a bit naughty.

    Sick bastard.
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    (Original post by Cyanohydrin)
    You are also forgetting Noah's flood. Think of all those giraffes, lions and puppies that drowned when god had a hissy fit and decided to go ott and flood the entire world just because some humans were a bit naughty.

    Sick bastard.
    Or how about the smiting of all of Job's live stock etc just to prove a point to the devil.
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    (Original post by Gofre)
    Nice of him to tell us the truth after our fates have been sealed, isn't it?
    The truth is already out there for those who seek to discover, not for those who seek to destroy.
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    (Original post by kbilly)
    The truth is already out there for those who seek to discover, not for those who seek to destroy.
    I've looked into all the supposed evidences for the existence of the Christian God that have been presented to me, none of them have withstood scrutiny. Feel free to convince me otherwise.
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    (Original post by MrHayden)
    Oh I see what you mean. Well, it doesn't change the fact that the festival isn't actually a Christian one, it is just one that Christians attached their meaning to. It isn't really worth arguing about.

    Peace and Thor grant you the power of a thousand warriors
    .
    :lol:
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    (Original post by gltw)
    :rofl: :rofl3:
    Certainly wasn't God according to the Old testament

    (And then come the new testament quotations written by Paul)

    :rolleyes:

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