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George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Who's guilty?

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Reply 60
Regardless of Trayvon's shortcomings, failures and mishaps, whether they are true or not is beside the point. He should not have been shot, particularly when the police were alerted of his 'shifty behaviour' and had specifically told Zimmerman "We don't need you to follow him." If Zimmerman had listened to what the police told him, the situation would not have ended in this tragic way. The sad thing is, this happened in February and was obviously being tried to be pushed under the carpet. If it wasn't for the media, or senior figures standing up against it, it wouldn't get as much international attention. This has helped bring issues to light. This could have been a racist attack, but it equally might not have been. I don't know Zimmerman's thoughts and I don't know him personally, and for this reason, I cannot judge him. One thing is that Trayvon's life should not have been taken. The racism claims are becoming a distraction and the main thing the police need to figure out is what happened, but parts of Zimmerman's story are not quite adding up, and he's looking increasingly in the wrong, so there is no question in my mind that Zimmerman is guilty in this situation. The truth of the matter is, if a black person had killed a white person, it is unlikely that he would be walking as free as Zimmerman is, and that is the issue here. It's the same harm done, a life has been lost and the treatment of the individuals involved should be equal. That's my issue, not whether Zimmerman is racist or not. That's the small picture. RIP Trayvon, regardless of what you did, you did not deserve to die in this way.

In response to the interesting conversation on Page 3, yes, there is a problem with black people playing the race card, but sometimes, it is applicable. It's just become so overused that people have stopped listening and taking it seriously. It is indeed racist when a black person picks on a white person because of their race, or any other race picks on another one purely because they are of a different race, and that needs to be punished equally too. There's a case of some Somalian women who were drunk and beat up a white woman because she was white and they got let off because they "Weren't used to alcohol" because of their religion. I think that is absolutely ludicrous and things like that make people not take the race card so seriously. Either way, it shouldn't be abused so much because when it's such a serious thing, so that needs to be tackled too.
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by MrJon
the fact is if the children targetted by pedophile gangs were muslim they still wouldn't be mentally traumatized or have been ingored by social services for 20 years.

tara


You see, the difference between this post and my post, is that my post was relevant. And true.
Reply 62
There was no need for Zimmerman to get out of his car and confront Martin. He was only provoking him.

I'm sure he wasn't an angel, but he didn't deserve to die. And unless it can be proven that he had the intent of murdering Zimmerman, then Zimmerman should be found guilty.
Original post by MrJon
the fact is if the children targetted by pedophile gangs were muslim they still wouldn't be mentally traumatized or have been ingored by social services for 20 years.

tara


what uni do you go to? just wanna know so i can avoid it. if you can be 22 and still spout meaningless, bigoted, ignorant statements like that then theyv clearly failed in educating you

if you havnt/dont go to uni, i think you should consider it
Reply 64
Original post by Captain Haddock
You see, the difference between this post and my post, is that my post was relevant. And true.


whats not true about my post? muslims aren't raping 'certain' children.

another bias mug.
Reply 65
Original post by nickster146
you seem to be taking quite a socialist (?) approach, which i applaud, but why are you then subdividing us along racial lines? thats an unnecessary division.


quite. you wouldn't get people wandering around saying "ug Im white" pre 1960s mass immigration and multiculturalism. you were just english. Now the working class is fractured along ethnic/cultural/religious lines.
Reply 66
Original post by nickster146
what uni do you go to? just wanna know so i can avoid it. if you can be 22 and still spout meaningless, bigoted, ignorant statements like that then theyv clearly failed in educating you

if you havnt/dont go to uni, i think you should consider it


and still spout meaningless, bigoted, ignorant statements like that then theyv clearly failed in educating you

excuse me? what wasn't true about what i said? that muslim gangs are raping only 10 year old white children?

are you a mug, dumb, stupid, or just slave to popular opinion? just the latter then. if you can muster calling people racist and talking about one form of racism have the mental and emotional capacity to hack it the other way around.
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by MrJon
whats not true about my post? muslims aren't raping 'certain' children.

another bias mug.


So then you accept that if Martin was white he would still be alive?
Reply 68
Original post by Bonged.
Duggan? I'm glad the cops shot him. No, not cos "uuhh he's black" cos he was a crack dealing gangster scumbag. Why wasn't there massive rioting when the cops murdered Ian Tomlinson?


don't you believe in law of the courts and that everybody is entitled to a just trial?
Original post by Bonged.
quite. you wouldn't get people wandering around saying "ug Im white" pre 1960s mass immigration and multiculturalism. you were just english. Now the working class is fractured along ethnic/cultural/religious lines.


i agree to a certain extent. but do you not see that integration failed due to both reluctant attitudes on the side of some immigrants and rampant hostility from the natives? i believe it can still succeed, and i believe that until we try to bridge to gap the working class will remain fractured and therefore easy to exploit
Reply 70
Original post by Captain Haddock
So then you accept that if Martin was white he would still be alive?


listen here, you. who trys to have an intelligent convo then says oh ' one rule for one because hes black ' ' oh, looky here, muslims pedo's, narrrr if those kids were asian they would still have been raped, even though they only raped white kids.'. but thta martin would still be here if he was black..because...oh well he is black. hehehehe

i think you need emotional help.

Google the definition of bias, brainwashing. might be educational for you and ' that must be waycis ' manner.

you have no evidence, nothing. being black is enough evidence of racism. goes to show how narrow minded you are. your the one who sees everything in ' perpetriator and victim'
Original post by MrJon
and still spout meaningless, bigoted, ignorant statements like that then theyv clearly failed in educating you

excuse me? what wasn't true about what i said? that muslim gangs are raping only 10 year old white children?

are you a mug, dumb, stupid, or just slave to popular opinion? just the latter then. if you can muster calling people racist and talking about one form of racism have the mental and emotional capacity to hack it the other way around.


muslim gang rape is far less common that rape by white men (even when population proportion is taken into it). your the slave, blindly mouthing off about "bloody immigrants!!11!" without actually thinking. talking to you is making my blood pressure rise, so im gonna stop.


****.
Original post by MrJon
listen here, you. who trys to have an intelligent convo then says oh ' one rule for one because hes black ' ' oh, looky here, muslims pedo's, narrrr if those kids were asian they would still have been raped, even though they only raped white kids.'. but thta martin would still be here if he was black..because...oh well he is black. hehehehe

i think you need emotional help.

Google the definition of bias, brainwashing. might be educational for you and ' that must be waycis ' manner.

you have no evidence, nothing. being black is enough evidence of racism. goes to show how narrow minded you are. your the one who sees everything in ' perpetriator and victim'




Wow look at you getting all riled up. You can barely form a sentence right now :frown:. I'll tell you what. Step away from the computer, take a minute to collect your thoughts, then come back and have another go at answering my question. If it helps, I'll even admit that those nasty old Muslims did target white girls. Ok? Ok :smile:
(edited 12 years ago)
Reply 73
Original post by nickster146
i agree to a certain extent. but do you not see that integration failed due to both reluctant attitudes on the side of some immigrants and rampant hostility from the natives? i believe it can still succeed, and i believe that until we try to bridge to gap the working class will remain fractured and therefore easy to exploit


Absolutely. Don't forget though the role that moral/cultural relativism and multiculturalism had to play in segregating people.

I hope. We'd have to start treating people equally.
Reply 74
Original post by Captain Haddock
Wow look at you getting all riled up. So angry you can barely form a sentence :frown:. I'll tell you what. Step away from the computer, take a minute to collect your thoughts, then come back and have another go at answering my question. If it helps, I'll even admit that those nasty old Muslims did target white girls. Ok? Ok :smile:


why would it be painful for you to say this? it doesn't bother you to presume that zimmerman is a rabid racist.
Reply 75
Original post by nickster146
muslim gang rape is far less common that rape by white men (even when population proportion is taken into it). your the slave, blindly mouthing off about "bloody immigrants!!11!" without actually thinking. talking to you is making my blood pressure rise, so im gonna stop.


****.


excuse me? i thought we were talking about race? you were so keen on it a minute ago when calling the Martin murder racist. funny how your enthusiasm has dwindled.

if people like you put as much enthusiasm into life then callling people racist you might achieve something someday.

hold on, did you just say rape and white men? erm, how many white men are targetting muslim children for rape? ermmmm. how about 0. notice you had to divert that fact :smile:

thought you'd gone of the point from racism to rape without pointing out this rape issue was a racial one. strange since you seem so enthusiastic about fairness and representing those who are targetted because of their race. oh wait, you only care about one from of racism. like usual.
Reply 76
Original post by ugk4life
don't you believe in law of the courts and that everybody is entitled to a just trial?


Yeah. I'm just puzzled as to why there was a week of carnage after a crack dealer was shot but not after a newspaper seller was killed.
Reply 77
Original post by Mollymod
Regardless of Trayvon's shortcomings, failures and mishaps, whether they are true or not is beside the point. He should not have been shot, particularly when the police were alerted of his 'shifty behaviour' and had specifically told Zimmerman "We don't need you to follow him." If Zimmerman had listened to what the police told him, the situation would not have ended in this tragic way. The sad thing is, this happened in February and was obviously being tried to be pushed under the carpet. If it wasn't for the media, or senior figures standing up against it, it wouldn't get as much international attention. This has helped bring issues to light. This could have been a racist attack, but it equally might not have been. I don't know Zimmerman's thoughts and I don't know him personally, and for this reason, I cannot judge him. One thing is that Trayvon's life should not have been taken. The racism claims are becoming a distraction and the main thing the police need to figure out is what happened, but parts of Zimmerman's story are not quite adding up, and he's looking increasingly in the wrong, so there is no question in my mind that Zimmerman is guilty in this situation. The truth of the matter is, if a black person had killed a white person, it is unlikely that he would be walking as free as Zimmerman is, and that is the issue here. It's the same harm done, a life has been lost and the treatment of the individuals involved should be equal. That's my issue, not whether Zimmerman is racist or not. That's the small picture. RIP Trayvon, regardless of what you did, you did not deserve to die in this way.

In response to the interesting conversation on Page 3, yes, there is a problem with black people playing the race card, but sometimes, it is applicable. It's just become so overused that people have stopped listening and taking it seriously. It is indeed racist when a black person picks on a white person because of their race, or any other race picks on another one purely because they are of a different race, and that needs to be punished equally too. There's a case of some Somalian women who were drunk and beat up a white woman because she was white and they got let off because they "Weren't used to alcohol" because of their religion. I think that is absolutely ludicrous and things like that make people not take the race card so seriously. Either way, it shouldn't be abused so much because when it's such a serious thing, so that needs to be tackled too.


if a black person had killed a white person they would not be walking around free? nope, the story would never even make the news.

sorry though, i never knew people came down so hard on racism toward whites. i always thought society accepted it. silly me.

silly you. since you contradicted yourself with the black women who attacked the white girl who ' got off free'. what a contradiction.

p.s - Zimmerman is peruvian. yet more ignorant comments.
Reply 78
Original post by Captain Haddock
Wow look at you getting all riled up. You can barely form a sentence right now :frown:. I'll tell you what. Step away from the computer, take a minute to collect your thoughts, then come back and have another go at answering my question. If it helps, I'll even admit that those nasty old Muslims did target white girls. Ok? Ok :smile:


yet it takes you 3 sentences to say that.

wheres your evidence it was a racial issue?
Original post by Bonged.
Yeah. I'm just puzzled as to why there was a week of carnage after a crack dealer was shot but not after a newspaper seller was killed.


That's easy. Nobody knew who Ian Tomlinson was and his cause of death was not made explicit for a long time after he was killed. Mark Duggan from what I understand was a well liked figure within the community and him being shot in murky circumstances was really just the straw that broke the camels back for the community's relationship with the police, which has always been very strained. Obviously when the riots spread to other areas it stopped being about Duggan.

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