[Wellies.]

I'm in a bit of a dilemna, I got 4 rejections for medicine this year and an offer for Leeds for Biochem....I'm not sure whether I've got a chance next time round or if I shouldn't be naive and cut my losses now and take the offer for Biochem...I got 11A*'s at GCSE, 4A's at AS and a UKCAT of 660 but thinking maybe it's my personal statement and stuff (I've done a fair bit of experience but probably not enough)...what do you think? Be honest, I dont want to reapply and have the same result as this year

Thanks

[TooSexyForMyStethoscope]

(Original post by Wellies.)
I'm in a bit of a dilemna, I got 4 rejections for medicine this year and an offer for Leeds for Biochem....I'm not sure whether I've got a chance next time round or if I shouldn't be naive and cut my losses now and take the offer for Biochem...I got 11A*'s at GCSE, 4A's at AS and a UKCAT of 660 but thinking maybe it's my personal statement and stuff (I've done a fair bit of experience but probably not enough)...what do you think? Be honest, I dont want to reapply and have the same result as this year

Thanks

You definitely wouldn't have been rejected as a result of your academic performance. Your UKCAT is good but you might have missed the cutoff for a few universities.

I would agree that your personal statement and interview (if you had one) let you down. If you still really want to study medicine, and you can spare the time and cost of a year out, then I would reapply. Your application next time, with achieved A2s and a better personal statement has the potential to be very good.

[Hippokrates]

(Original post by DH3498)
That's pretty harsh because you're taking a place away from someone who actually wants to do that course. If you have no intention of doing it, don't bother applying for it. Just hope you get offers, if not reapply next year in a better position.

Not really because they know you're a medical applicant due to your personal statement so they know they're a last resort anyway when they make an offer so assume you're unlikely to take it.

[DH3498]

(Original post by Hippokrates)
Not really because they know you're a medical applicant due to your personal statement so they know they're a last resort anyway when they make an offer so assume you're unlikely to take it.

What difference does that make? :L I wasn't arguing that point, I was suggesting: if they give you an offer, you've still taken that opportunity away from someone who actually wants to study that course. And like someone said earlier, the graduate-entry into medicine is even harder than undergrad so if you leave it after you've got a degree, its likely that it'll only get harder to get in.

Either way, I just think there's not much point putting it down; maybe if you didn't get in this year to medicine, then in the second year of applying put down 4 Med and 1 other, just in case/as an alternative route into medicine.

[Alyss05]

I put down a 5th choice of Neuroscience incase I missed the grades for my offer therefore i'd have to take a gap year. (i know some unis only require AAB but thats few and unis are constantly upping their requirements all the time. e.g bristol required AAB last year and now its AAA/A*AB) So by putting a 5th option and getting the offer I would have a degree to do that i would enjoy and then apply to grad medicine which I know is very competitive but if you're really committed to doing medicine then it would be worth it in the long run

[Ignoramus]

I put down a fifth choice because I thought that if I didn't get into medicine, there would be a decent chance of me taking up the fifth choice offer (if I got one!), and it was a degree I genuinely thought would be fun to do.

[kingcoltzan]

(Original post by Elwyn)
It's all well and good saying that you should be 100% dedicated to medicine and that putting a 5th choice down would 'steal' a place from someone else. But, bear in mind if you don't put a 5th choice down then miss your medicine grades (with a medicine offer or not) you'd have to take a gap year and still not be able to apply to medicine (yes I know there's some medical schools that accept resits but I'm being realistic). If you had a 5th choice at least you'd have something to fall back on if the worst did happen.

+1

(Original post by DH3498)
That's pretty harsh because you're taking a place away from someone who actually wants to do that course. If you have no intention of doing it, don't bother applying for it. Just hope you get offers, if not reapply next year in a better position.

It's not harsh!!!!! It's called LIFE! Your not doing anything unfair to get that 5th offer, so I don't see why it is so different. It's called competition! Every offer you get in life you are taking that away from someone else who "wants" it.....sucks I know, but thats how it works!

(Original post by Hippokrates)
I know it sounds bad but I'm thinking of putting UCL biomed as my 5th choice so that if I get 4 rejections I can say I turned down UCL so I feel a bit better about myself. It's pointless but I'd like to be able know whether I'm capable of getting into a prestigious uni. I have no intention of doing anything other than medicine. If all went wrong and for some reason I couldn't apply for medicine I would do midwifery but obviously you can't realistically put that down as a 5th choice.

My advice: Always put down a 5th choice, you never know what will happen. Try and take it seriously and put it down for a course you might have considered doing before you decided to do medicine, so for me it was Biochemistry, or maybe even just Pure Chem/Bio. I applied Imperial Biochemistry and got the offer, and I think, would have taken it or insured it had I not got better Medicine offers. But also apply like you say, UCL would be a good choice, still a reputable uni and a reputable degree. There is no point going to do a crap degree at a crap university where your post job prospects will be very slim. Graduate entry medicine is even more challenging. It is also a serious confidence booster even if your are never going to take it, it is a very useful booster around january if you do get it. I would shy away from Biomedical for reasons I shall not explain for fear of being shouted at

And Imperial took numerous people I know who are medics with clearly medics Personal statements, so did UCL,KCL, and lots of other great unis

[DH3498]

It's not harsh!!!!! It's called LIFE! Your not doing anything unfair to get that 5th offer, so I don't see why it is so different. It's called competition! Every offer you get in life you are taking that away from someone else who "wants" it.....sucks I know, but thats how it works!

Yes I know its competition, but its slightly different when someone is applying to it, with very little intention of taking the offer.

I guess at the end of the day, there's no 'blanket' right or wrong answer. It all depends on one's position. If you have a very very good academic profile, you'd have a high chance of getting at least 1 interview (and then really its down to you if you get subsequent place). But on the other hand if you have strengths in other areas, maybe a 5th choice is a very good idea!

Whether you put it down or not: just try your hardest to get a Medicine interview and a following offer!

Good luck!

[kingcoltzan]

(Original post by DH3498)
Yes I know its competition, but its slightly different when someone is applying to it, with very little intention of taking the offer.

I guess at the end of the day, there's no 'blanket' right or wrong answer. It all depends on one's position. If you have a very very good academic profile, you'd have a high chance of getting at least 1 interview (and then really its down to you if you get subsequent place). But on the other hand if you have strengths in other areas, maybe a 5th choice is a very good idea!

Whether you put it down or not: just try your hardest to get a Medicine interview and a following offer!

Good luck!

But it isn't different! In all applications for everything in life there will be those who want it and those who would never even dream of taking it....who gets the offer is on pure merit (well,you know what I mean)...It's not like someone sits there going "oh yeah he would never take us up, why don't we give him an offer!".... they just give them out on ability, and if candidate A is better than candidate B thats all that matters.... crying that its not fair for the people who actually want to do XYZ isn't going to solve anything, there was a reason why person A got the offer but person B didn't...

Sorry to rant

[-Simon-]

Medicine is incredibly competitive and UCAS only allows four choices to be medicine on an application form. (obvious statement out of the way first)

Therefore, it is fair for medical applicants to be allowed a fifth choice that isn't medicine as every other applicant is allowed this. They are not taking away a place from someone who deserves it more, selection is based on academic merit and they have just as much right to make this application and accept the offer if they choose so. I recommend medical applicants do make a 5th choice if they truly want to do medicine as it allows every eventuality to be covered and if an applicant does miss the grades they can have another chance 3 years down the line. (yes it will be harder, but, if you want it enough then this shouldn't be an issue)

[DH3498]

(Original post by kingcoltzan)
But it isn't different! In all applications for everything in life there will be those who want it and those who would never even dream of taking it....who gets the offer is on pure merit (well,you know what I mean)...It's not like someone sits there going "oh yeah he would never take us up, why don't we give him an offer!".... they just give them out on ability, and if candidate A is better than candidate B thats all that matters.... crying that its not fair for the people who actually want to do XYZ isn't going to solve anything, there was a reason why person A got the offer but person B didn't...

Sorry to rant

Hahaha, yes this is true; and at the end of the day its up to the individual and their circumstances

(Original post by -Simon-)
Medicine is incredibly competitive and UCAS only allows four choices to be medicine on an application form. (obvious statement out of the way first)

Therefore, it is fair for medical applicants to be allowed a fifth choice that isn't medicine as every other applicant is allowed this. They are not taking away a place from someone who deserves it more, selection is based on academic merit and they have just as much right to make this application and accept the offer if they choose so. I recommend medical applicants do make a 5th choice if they truly want to do medicine as it allows every eventuality to be covered and if an applicant does miss the grades they can have another chance 3 years down the line. (yes it will be harder, but, if you want it enough then this shouldn't be an issue)

What is the point in spending probably 40K+ on the 3 year course, and decreasing their chances of getting in (relative to undergrad entry). When they could spend the year out, enhancing their extra-curricular profile, go abroad, more work experience, and not spend all of that money?

Doing a 3-year an a 5-year course is now becoming so ridiculously expensive with the 9,000 fees, I don't see many people doing it tbh. (Even doctor's salaries may not cover that beasty loan )

[BeanofJelly]

Whether or not you put a 5th choice depends entirely on what you would do if you secure no medicine offers, the prediction of which in part rests on your confidence in your A2 grades.

I was very confident in my A2 grades, I knew I would get at least AABB (this is a few years ago now, requirements now might well be AAA). If I didn't get into medicine, I would take a year to gain more experience and re-apply with my "at least AABB" in hand. I would rather that than start a different course.

So I didn't put a 5th choice. Frankly - like someone else said, if I hadn't got any medicine offers, I wouldn't want people nagging me to just accept my insurance - so I made that not an option.

However some people might not be all that confident in their A-level grades - if you don't get the grades, waiting another year still won't get you into medicine - you may as well get on with another course and see how life goes.

Some people might not be all that confident in their A-level grades but would want to spend a year mulling over their non-medicine options anyway, so don't need an insurance.

Some people are very confident in their grades, but medicine or not they want to get straight into study - if they end up spending an extra 2 years on study before medicine, to avoid the gap year, they don't mind and consider it a valuable use of their time - so will have an insurance.

Some people may only be a little more interested in medicine, than say chemistry - and if they don't get in, they're happy to do their insurance and forget about medicine.


I don't think any of the above don't "deserve" to get into medicine or aren't "dedicated enough" tbh. There's a lot of sanctimony amongst medical applicants, and I suppose there always will be.

To do medicine I think you should be hardworking, responsible, and know what you're getting into - but I don't think having other interests which may be equal to your interest in medicine is a crime, or means you lack dedication/don't deserve to get in/ will make a poor doctor etc.

(Original post by DH3498)
What is the point in spending probably 40K+ on the 3 year course, and decreasing their chances of getting in (relative to undergrad entry). When they could spend the year out, enhancing their extra-curricular profile, go abroad, more work experience, and not spend all of that money?

Doing a 3-year an a 5-year course is now becoming so ridiculously expensive with the 9,000 fees, I don't see many people doing it tbh. (Even doctor's salaries may not cover that beasty loan )

So true. You shouldn't plan graduate entry - it's really just in case medicine doesn't occur to you until you are older, or as a very desperate (and expensive) last chance for someone who simply hasn't the grades to get into medicine as an undergrad.

[Samentalmonkey]

This may sound a little weird, but would putting English down as my 5th choice get me anywhere? I know it may seem strange, but I applied to Medicine with a foundation year because I don't have the right A-levels but I got rejected. I'm going to apply again in my gap year, but I'm still struggling with my 5th choice. I'm studying Art, English and Maths at the moment and English is probably my strongest subject so would it be worth it, or would they just reject me straight away?

[DH3498]

(Original post by Samentalmonkey)
This may sound a little weird, but would putting English down as my 5th choice get me anywhere? I know it may seem strange, but I applied to Medicine with a foundation year because I don't have the right A-levels but I got rejected. I'm going to apply again in my gap year, but I'm still struggling with my 5th choice. I'm studying Art, English and Maths at the moment and English is probably my strongest subject so would it be worth it, or would they just reject me straight away?

I think you really need to have an A level in Chem and Bio. I know there's the foundation entry, but I think even for that you need on at AS level and the other at A level? It still might be worth a shot though.

And about the English application as 5th choice - I think the personal statement would be so different for a medicine applicant to an english applicant. My friend applied for English and all he wrote about was books he'd read and stuff, whereas for medicine its a lot about work exp? So I really think the courses are too different for that possibility. Hmmmm...

Anyone else got ideas?

[-Simon-]

(Original post by DH3498)
What is the point in spending probably 40K+ on the 3 year course, and decreasing their chances of getting in (relative to undergrad entry). When they could spend the year out, enhancing their extra-curricular profile, go abroad, more work experience, and not spend all of that money?

Doing a 3-year an a 5-year course is now becoming so ridiculously expensive with the 9,000 fees, I don't see many people doing it tbh. (Even doctor's salaries may not cover that beasty loan )

I said if they did not achieve the grades, if they do not achieve the grades then there is no chance of getting in so there is no possible way to decrease their chance of getting in as it is at zero. (as resitting is not allowed at many and is disliked by others)

After completion of a 3 year degree and then being accepted onto a 4 year course as a graduate you will have spent 7 years, that is only one more year than that of a medic with the same qualifications. The cost will be higher but financing the degree can be done and a lot of it may even be written off.

Yes graduate entry is expensive and ends up being one year longer, however, it is massively useful as it gives people a chance to apply who previously had been rejected with no way back.

[DH3498]

(Original post by -Simon-)
I said if they did not achieve the grades, if they do not achieve the grades then there is no chance of getting in so there is no possible way to decrease their chance of getting in as it is at zero. (as resitting is not allowed at many and is disliked by others)

After completion of a 3 year degree and then being accepted onto a 4 year course as a graduate you will have spent 7 years, that is only one more year than that of a medic with the same qualifications. The cost will be higher but financing the degree can be done and a lot of it may even be written off.

Yes graduate entry is expensive and ends up being one year longer, however, it is massively useful as it gives people a chance to apply who previously had been rejected with no way back.

Ah yes sorry, I forgot about the grad entry 4 year programs But even so, if you've been rejected from the 'easier' option of getting in, what are the realistic chances of getting in the grad route which is harder?

If you do resit modules in a 3rd year, do extra work experience/volunteering, and maybe go abroad after resits in Jan, so from like Feb-April - I reckon that would really enhance someone's profile and it would show universities that you have really utilised the year out, and are focused on getting into medicine?

If you're in that position you're chances of getting in are in no way 'zero' because not ALL med schools immediately disregard people resitting.

[Hippokrates]

(Original post by kingcoltzan)
+1



It's not harsh!!!!! It's called LIFE! Your not doing anything unfair to get that 5th offer, so I don't see why it is so different. It's called competition! Every offer you get in life you are taking that away from someone else who "wants" it.....sucks I know, but thats how it works!



My advice: Always put down a 5th choice, you never know what will happen. Try and take it seriously and put it down for a course you might have considered doing before you decided to do medicine, so for me it was Biochemistry, or maybe even just Pure Chem/Bio. I applied Imperial Biochemistry and got the offer, and I think, would have taken it or insured it had I not got better Medicine offers. But also apply like you say, UCL would be a good choice, still a reputable uni and a reputable degree. There is no point going to do a crap degree at a crap university where your post job prospects will be very slim. Graduate entry medicine is even more challenging. It is also a serious confidence booster even if your are never going to take it, it is a very useful booster around january if you do get it. I would shy away from Biomedical for reasons I shall not explain for fear of being shouted at

And Imperial took numerous people I know who are medics with clearly medics Personal statements, so did UCL,KCL, and lots of other great unis

Please do explain about biomed I won't judge you

[Davidragon]

This is why I put a 5th choice. It doesn't reflect all my current views, but what I felt at the time.

I picked a 5th because a gap year seemed out the question. For me, I didn't see a gap year as an acceptable option. For other people maybe, people with better connections, more charisma etc.

But for me I thought education was my thing, and the idea of spending a year outside of that learning environment seemed pretty scary. Now it seems a bit silly, as a year is a pretty short time to sacrifice for the sake of doing medicine. However that's how I felt. I felt a year out would be a year wasted, a year stagnating. I couldn't see myself as person who would spend a gap year travelling around the world or anything else that fanciful (it really isn't feasible or desirable for everyone).

There was also a mentality that if I got rejected the first time, then I wasn't really good enough for Medicine. I felt that people who get in after a gap year were the minority, and I'd probably only be rejected again. You can say it's lack of dedication or whatever, but I had to be realistic. Looking at how competitive Medicine is, and at how good everyone else was (TSR was no help in this regard) you realise how big of a deal Medicine is. I dedicated a lot of energy in trying to make everything work, but I wanted to give my self as many options as possible, so there was always a plan B and C to fall back on if everything didn't go to plan. This wasn't even because I thought my application was weak; my academics were strong, I had work experience which I really enjoyed, extra curricular interests etc. all of which I reflected on in my PS. While my BMAT and UKCAT weren't amazing, overall they were both above average. I was pretty proud of myself if I'm honest, and quite excited. But I had in the back of my mind that things might not go to plan.

And so far things haven't really got to plan. 3 rejections in I'm glad I had an offer from my 5th choice going into my last medical interview. It would have been very hard to be positive if all I was looking down was 3 rejections. It isn't something I expected, but I knew it could happen. I really respect my 5th choice course (Pharmacy) and think it would be something I would enjoy, but just not as much as Medicine. However, it being there was a great encourager in the face of going to an interview where most other people would have another offer for Medicine.

Honestly, I don't think putting a 5th choice is at all a bad thing. Not everyone who applies to Medicine will be good enough to get in. That doesn't even necessarily reflect their motivation, it's just how things go sometimes. Sometimes in life we just have to settle for things that aren't our first choice (how many people do you think get in to their first choice medical school really?). Going all in on a course like Medicine might seem like being dedicated but you need to have a high degree of self confidence or a lot of security that a gap year is a good option.

That all said, my opinion on gap years has really changed. I can see how it could be a productive time. Still don't see myself travelling, probably more working/volunteering. I see it as a great opportunity to develop personal skills that you don't really develop doing A levels. I'm waiting to see what happens and hoping I get in this year; like many others I'm pretty emotionally invested in this whole thing (especially with how difficult it's been). Reapplying isn't something I take lightly though. In a big way, it's just like rolling a dice again and hoping. Sure, there's more time to prepare etc. but nothing is guaranteed. There's no guarantee you'll even get into your 5th in future years as more unis exclude medics. I'm not saying reapplication isn't a good option, in most cases it's still the best option. But people need to be more sympathetic when you advise people to play dice with their futures.

For future applicants who actually read all that, don't be negative. It's tough, it's competitive (more so than you might realise now) etc. etc. but you only make it harder if you become negative. In a way I make it harder for myself by overthinking things, but that is just me. For many of you, you won't have any of these troubles (you might even get 4 offers). Work hard and stay motivated and I'm sure you'll do fine.