Why was there a furore over the "granny tax"?
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Re: Why was there a furore over the "granny tax"?(Original post by calumsteele1)
your argument appears to be revolving around the idea that the entire uk budget goes to the elderly? where did you get this highly uestionable observation from?Source - http://www.parliament.uk/business/pu...ng-population/Public spending and older people
Much of today’s public spending on benefits is focussed on elderly people. 65% of Department for Work and Pensions benefit expenditure goes to those over working age, equivalent to £100 billion in 2010/11 or one-seventh of public expenditure. Continuing to provide state benefits and pensions at today’s average would mean additional spending of £10 billion a year for every additional one million people over working age.
Growing numbers of elderly people also have an impact on the NHS, where average spending for retired households is nearly double that for non-retired households: in 2007/08 the average value of NHS services for retired households was £5,200 compared with £2,800 for non-retired. These averages conceal variation across older age groups, with the cost of service provision for the most elderly likely to be much greater than for younger retired people. The Department of Health estimates that the average cost of providing hospital and community health services for a person aged 85 years or more is around three times greater than for a person aged 65 to 74 years.
State benefits and the NHS accounted for just under half of government expenditure in 2009/10. With much of this spending directed at elderly people, their growing number will present challenges for providers of these particular services as well as for the public finances as a whole.
Seriously mate it is pretty easy to work this out without any data anyway.
The emboldened part I suspect excluding public sector workers pensions.Last edited by Classical Liberal; 08-04-2012 at 18:23. -
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Re: Why was there a furore over the "granny tax"?that may be true but i dont think it does anything to invalidate my point that they have contributed trillions to the uk economy in their life time and as such are entitled to be looked after by the state in their old age when they can no longer work..(Original post by Classical Liberal)
Source - http://www.parliament.uk/business/pu...ng-population/
Seriously mate it is pretty easy to work this out without any data anyway.
The emboldened part I suspect excluding public sector workers pensions.
we'd expect the same thing [or at least the vast, vast majority] -
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Re: Why was there a furore over the "granny tax"?We can expect whatever we like. But that does not mean we have earnt or deserve it.(Original post by calumsteele1)
that may be true but i dont think it does anything to invalidate my point that they have contributed trillions to the uk economy in their life time and as such are entitled to be looked after by the state in their old age when they can no longer work..
we'd expect the same thing [or at least the vast, vast majority] -
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Re: Why was there a furore over the "granny tax"?but they have earnt and do deserve it...(Original post by Classical Liberal)
We can expect whatever we like. But that does not mean we have earnt or deserve it.
by your logic every single benefit should be scrapped, the nhs demolished etc.. -
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Re: Why was there a furore over the "granny tax"?The generation currently entering and heading towards retirement have been on the gravy train for their entire lives. Final salary pensions anyone? Check. Two years of college and into a well paid profession? Check. Able to buy a good quality detached house on an average salary? Check. Able to raise a family comfortably on a single wage? Check. Constant rises in the value of their properties? Check. The biggest bull run in stock market history? Check.
It goes on and on. They have worked through the best economic times the general human population has ever seen (think im exaggerating? prove me wrong). I'll say that again: they have worked through the best economic times the general human population has ever seen. Much of the ease in which they were able to accumulate vast amounts of wealth was created by intentionally (for want of a better phrase) f*cking the next generation over. When they were designing their pensions and pumping up the housing market they knew full well that we would all be screwed. They knew it, but they did it anyway.
And now they have the cheek to complain about not getting an increase in their tax free allowance. It's not even going to cost them anything. All it is doing is putting a tiny restriction on the depths at which they can plunge their grim, dirty fingers into our pockets while we slave away (that's if we're lucky enough to get a job) through decades of austerity just to try and put right the mess they made. -
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Re: Why was there a furore over the "granny tax"?No, you're only looking at one side of the balance sheet. Yes those that have been in work have paid taxes their entire lives, but they've also been consuming public services at an alarming rate (hence the debt) so in practical terms they're owed £0. Nobody is asking for the removal of the state pension but in times of austerity when the government is raising tuition fees and abolishings schemes like the EMA there's nothing wrong spreading the pain around a bit.(Original post by calumsteele1)
that may be true but i dont think it does anything to invalidate my point that they have contributed trillions to the uk economy in their life time and as such are entitled to be looked after by the state in their old age when they can no longer work..
we'd expect the same thing [or at least the vast, vast majority] -
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Re: Why was there a furore over the "granny tax"?(Original post by ruperts)
The generation currently entering and heading towards retirement have been on the gravy train for their entire lives. Final salary pensions anyone? Check. Two years of college and into a well paid profession? Check. Able to buy a good quality detached house on an average salary? Check. Able to raise a family comfortably on a single wage? Check. Constant rises in the value of their properties? Check. The biggest bull run in stock market history? Check.
It goes on and on. They have worked through the best economic times the general human population has ever seen (think im exaggerating? prove me wrong). I'll say that again: they have worked through the best economic times the general human population has ever seen. Much of the ease in which they were able to accumulate vast amounts of wealth was created by intentionally (for want of a better phrase) f*cking the next generation over. When they were designing their pensions and pumping up the housing market they knew full well that we would all be screwed. They knew it, but they did it anyway.
And now they have the cheek to complain about not getting an increase in their tax free allowance. It's not even going to cost them anything. All it is doing is putting a tiny restriction on the depths at which they can plunge their grim, dirty fingers into our pockets while we slave away (that's if we're lucky enough to get a job) through decades of austerity just to try and put right the mess they made.
Good post. Out of reps
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Re: Why was there a furore over the "granny tax"?you make it sound like the elderly are the only ones to do this ...? are we forgetting the rest of the population who use public services? the debt is in no large part caused by the elderly! are you again forgetting everything else that the governments throws money at? the army, public sector workers and their depts, infrastructure projects, bail outs etc. relatively the amount paid to the elderly is simply a drop in the ocean. and besides if the current generations werent so lazy they could more than make up the slack, the work ethic in this country is abhorrant.(Original post by chefdave)
No, you're only looking at one side of the balance sheet. Yes those that have been in work have paid taxes their entire lives, but they've also been consuming public services at an alarming rate (hence the debt) so in practical terms they're owed £0. Nobody is asking for the removal of the state pension but in times of austerity when the government is raising tuition fees and abolishings schemes like the EMA there's nothing wrong spreading the pain around a bit.
raising tuition fees and ema? i think theyre in a different league to this ... many elderly people live in poverty every winter we hear about them having to choose between food or fuel as they cant afford both. tuition fees dont effect us for years anyway as we dont actually pay them till we start working.. and ema well putting it perspective paying a child to go to school or giving someone a few tax breaks so they have that little extra money to keep them alive and out of poverty..? -
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Re: Why was there a furore over the "granny tax"?They have certainly not earnt it. The debt is testament to this.(Original post by calumsteele1)
but they have earnt and do deserve it...
Whether they deserve it is entirely subjective. -
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Re: Why was there a furore over the "granny tax"?again i think youre ignoring the huge amounts of money theyve contributed in their life time to the state ... does this count for nothing in your books?(Original post by Classical Liberal)
They have certainly not earnt it. The debt is testament to this.
Whether they deserve it is entirely subjective.
