[wtfCharlie]

Basically, this picture just highlights the issue. Why do so many Christians agree that what the Bible has to say on slavery (it's OK), rape victims (should be killed) and other issues are outdated and should be ignored, yet still choose to agree with other elements like homophobia?

If a religious person is going to use their own reason - which I think is a great idea - to deliberate which religious ideals they agree with, why do they only go so far?

[Calumcalum]

(Original post by wtfCharlie)


Basically, this picture just highlights the issue. Why do so many Christians agree that what the Bible has to say on slavery (it's OK), rape victims (should be killed) and other issues are outdated and should be ignored, yet still choose to agree with other elements like homophobia?

If a religious person is going to use their own reason - which I think is a great idea - to deliberate which religious ideals they agree with, why do they only go so far?

The reason most Christians don't see homosexuality as God's plan for relationships is because of New Testament passages, not because of Leviticus.


(NB: this is descriptive - this is not necessarily what I believe).

[wtfCharlie]

(Original post by Calumcalum)
The reason most Christians don't see homosexuality as God's plan for relationships is because of New Testament passages, not because of Leviticus.


(NB: this is descriptive - this is not necessarily what I believe).

To be fair, the New Testament also says:

"1 Corinthians 11:5
But every woman who prays with her head uncovered disgraces her head."

But I don't think most Christian women pray with their head covered! It does seem a bit pick-and-choose with some Christians.

[Martyn*]

I'm watching the HungerGames now. Not sure what to make of it.

[Calumcalum]

(Original post by wtfCharlie)
To be fair, the New Testament also says:

"1 Corinthians 11:5
But every woman who prays with her head uncovered disgraces her head."

But I don't think most Christian women pray with their head covered! It does seem a bit pick-and-choose with some Christians.

Of course - a huge number of Christians are entirely pick-and-choosey.

[NJA]

(Original post by wtfCharlie)


Basically, this picture just highlights the issue. Why do so many Christians agree that what the Bible has to say on slavery (it's OK), rape victims (should be killed) and other issues are outdated and should be ignored, yet still choose to agree with other elements like homophobia?

If a religious person is going to use their own reason - which I think is a great idea - to deliberate which religious ideals they agree with, why do they only go so far?

What convenient bible passages?

You havn't cited any!
Only what many "Christians" apparently say.

I guess you find it "convenient" to refer to the mis-conceptions of others rather than properly research what Christians should believe.

[Clip]

I find the one about not coveting my neighbour's ass very inconvenient.

[tazarooni89]

(Original post by Calumcalum)
Of course - a huge number of Christians are entirely pick-and-choosey.

I also think that a huge number of Christians probably didn't actually know the Bible said that. The Bible is very long, most people won't have read it all. A lot of it also doesn't seem to be that relevant to the life of a practising Christian today either.

From what I've found, it seems less that Christians consciously "pick and choose", but more that many of them go with what their churches teach, what all their other Christian friends are doing and saying, as though this provides them with some sort of summary or abridged form of the Bible - learning Christianity from other people rather than directly from the Bible.

And then if you show them a verse telling women to pray with their heads covered, because their church has never refused them entry for having their heads exposed, or because all their friends pray in church without head-coverings, they seem to assume that there must be some interpretation or reason as to why that command doesn't necessarily apply to them.

[Okashira]

None of you have asked why Paul said the women should cover their heads.

[blackcurls]

(Original post by NJA)
What convenient bible passages?

You havn't cited any!

forgive the crude website address, but here's a few of those "convenient Bible passages" you were looking for http://www.evilbible.com/Slavery.htm

[Okashira]

(Original post by Matthew_Reece)
forgive the crude website address, but here's a few of those "convenient Bible passages" you were looking for http://www.evilbible.com/Slavery.htm

Those verses are governing how slavery is to operate. Slavery is a man imposed institution, that is to say man wished to have it in their lives. God gives the people of Israel as to how to do it legally, not to mistreat their slaves. If you read closely, the kind of slavery that went on concerning the picture in the OP, God condemns. Why? Read Exodus 21 verse 16 please.



I rest my case concerning that.




Now, did God institute slavery the day He created Adam? If God wanted the people to be slaves, He would have had so from the beginning. So slavery is clearly a man instituted thing. God just governs how it's done, so the people wouldn't mistreat the slaves.

[wtfCharlie]

(Original post by NJA)
What convenient bible passages?

You havn't cited any!
Only what many "Christians" apparently say.

I guess you find it "convenient" to refer to the mis-conceptions of others rather than properly research what Christians should believe.

Not in my OP . . . I can back up all of the ones from the OP though :P

Slavery: "Exodus 21:2 -'When you purchase a Hebrew slave, his service will last for six years.'

Rape victims: "Deuteronomy 22:24 - 'Take them both to the gate of the town and stone them to death: the girl, for not having cried for help in the town; the man, for having violated another man's wife. You must banish this evil from among you.'"

There's also the head coverings: "1 Corinthians 11:5 - But every woman who prays with her head uncovered disgraces her head."

I don't think any modern Christians follow these passages, yet they're happy with the homophobic elements?

[wtfCharlie]

(Original post by Okashira)
Those verses are governing how slavery is to operate. Slavery is a man imposed institution, that is to say man wished to have it in their lives. God gives the people of Israel as to how to do it legally, not to mistreat their slaves. If you read closely, the kind of slavery that went on concerning the picture in the OP, God condemns. Why? Read Exodus 21 verse 16 please.



I rest my case concerning that.




Now, did God institute slavery the day He created Adam? If God wanted the people to be slaves, He would have had so from the beginning. So slavery is clearly a man instituted thing. God just governs how it's done, so the people wouldn't mistreat the slaves.

Fair enough, although whether or not God created rape, his idea of tratment for rape victims is pretty horrific - scroll up, I've cited the passage earlier on.

[wtfCharlie]

(Original post by Matthew_Reece)
forgive the crude website address, but here's a few of those "convenient Bible passages" you were looking for http://www.evilbible.com/Slavery.htm

Like the site
I'm not anti-religion, but it does worry me people are unaware of what some of their books say on horrible things like this!

[Okashira]

(Original post by wtfCharlie)
Not in my OP . . . I can back up all of the ones from the OP though :P

Slavery: "Exodus 21:2 -'When you purchase a Hebrew slave, his service will last for six years.'

Rape victims: "Deuteronomy 22:24 - 'Take them both to the gate of the town and stone them to death: the girl, for not having cried for help in the town; the man, for having violated another man's wife. You must banish this evil from among you.'"

There's also the head coverings: "1 Corinthians 11:5 - But every woman who prays with her head uncovered disgraces her head."

I don't think any modern Christians follow these passages, yet they're happy with the homophobic elements?

You accuse Christians of picking and choosing, yet you are doing the very thing yourself. Give us context, give us the full story about those snippets you are pointing out. Did you not know that Paul also said that if a man covers his head, he disgrace his head as well? Why only mention the woman disgracing her head? Context man, Context!

[wtfCharlie]

(Original post by Okashira)
You accuse Christians of picking and choosing, yet you are doing the very thing yourself. Give us context, give us the full story about those snippets you are pointing out. Did you not know that Paul also said that if a man covers his head, he disgrace his head as well? Why only mention the woman disgracing her head? Context man, Context!

Yes, but most men do take their hats off for church, women don't. It shows that some parts have just been abandoned.

Also, I don't think ANY context makes killing a rape victim OK.

[Okashira]

(Original post by wtfCharlie)
Yes, but most men do take their hats off for church, women don't. It shows that some parts have just been abandoned.

Also, I don't think ANY context makes killing a rape victim OK.

If most men take their hats off during church today, it's probably not because they are thinking about what Paul said. They are simply taking off their hats for their own reasons. The why of what Paul has said, is the key to actually doing what Paul said. The why is the important part which many are leaving out. So even if women all of a sudden did what Paul said simply because Paul said it, and don't know the why, they are wasting their time.



As far as the rape victim, the context implies there was something she could have done to prevent the man from taking her virginity. The context implies because she didn't do that specific something, she in a way allowed the man to continue, to approve of what he's doing. Again the context says, if she didn't improve of his advances, she would scream out for help in the city. (Which should be crowded) So context is key.

[Sophiemaybabe]

(Original post by Okashira)
Those verses are governing how slavery is to operate. Slavery is a man imposed institution, that is to say man wished to have it in their lives. God gives the people of Israel as to how to do it legally, not to mistreat their slaves. If you read closely, the kind of slavery that went on concerning the picture in the OP, God condemns. Why? Read Exodus 21 verse 16 please.



I rest my case concerning that.




Now, did God institute slavery the day He created Adam? If God wanted the people to be slaves, He would have had so from the beginning. So slavery is clearly a man instituted thing. God just governs how it's done, so the people wouldn't mistreat the slaves.

yes but if god created man and man did all this, then he created it. he made our minds which thought it was a good idea to make slaves and rape people

[i feel like that sounds angry lol i like talking about religion ]

[blackcurls]

(Original post by Okashira)
As far as the rape victim, the context implies there was something she could have done to prevent the man from taking her virginity. The context implies because she didn't do that specific something, she in a way allowed the man to continue, to approve of what he's doing. Again the context says, if she didn't improve of his advances, she would scream out for help in the city. (Which should be crowded) So context is key.

Oooops, I thought rape was where the victim screams and does anything they can to prevent it from happening. I understand what you mean now, I forgot that rape was where you don't struggle or scream or anything.

Sorry for my misunderstanding

[Okashira]

(Original post by Sophiemaybabe)
yes but if god created man and man did all this, then he created it. he made our minds which thought it was a good idea to make slaves and rape people

[i feel like that sounds angry lol i like talking about religion ]

Man's mind has been corrupt since the fall. Is it the parents' fault that the child ran a red light and crashed their car, after they gave the child permission to drive their car? Is it the parents' fault the child chose to run a red light? Neither is it God's fault that man decided to do things own their own.