[hennessybubbles]

I just checked this statistic- the figures usually about 50-60% of students achieve 5 A*-Cs or better at GCSE... (often cited in cases of groups which do way worse like deprived students, young people in care etc...


is it just me or is that pretty shocking?

that means for all the thousands of young people that go through our education system in the UK- one of the richest countries in the world- after 11 years of full time education- about a third to half basically don't have sufficient school qualifications to get a basic job...

the fact that a lot of GCSEs are a joke in terms of the standard or quality- that makes it even worse..

I've been looking through an Ofsted report (research for my dissertation).. 57% of schools were found to be 'good' or 'outstanding'... 14% judged 'satisfactory'..

Its hard to say how the failing students are spread out amongst the schools... but I'm just wondering if I'm missing something here?

how is our school system this bad?

[boba]

does it mean that the schools are failing or does it mean that GCSES are designed so that it happens

[Alexandra's Box]

Just a load of crap that is not gonna make this country look good now or in the future. The fact that some of the teachers are thick as **** won't help matters either. Sorry but tis true

[Miracle Day]

And 60% of Students on TSR achieve atleast 10 A* in their GCSEs.

[aeterno]

Are these 60% those who get 5 A*-C grades or those who pass at all?

The difference being that if it's the former, this is explained by grades being scaled (i.e. there will inevitably be students who get lower than a C)

[fourdigit]

Too many factors are involved. Most would say attitude, perhaps for some but not everyone. Some may not been given much support on a certain area (e.g. reading) and unable to do well in exams.

I'd say there wasn't enough right support for them, sometimes there are some teachers who can teach or can't teach and there are sometimes students who want to learn or don't want to learn or sometimes there are school that are great or not great or sometimes there are family problems or health problems, etc.

[Sarabande]

I've found that among some teachers nowadays, none of them have the drive for the job, it seems like teaching is like a Plan B for them. My thoughts anyway.

[Ra Ra Ra]

At my school it's something like 46%...I know there's a lot of people that need extra help for whatever reason, but at my school there was no one to give it to them. I think the most anyone got was after school English/Maths/Science revision lessons, and that was only if the teacher could be bothered.

As English and Maths at C or above is pretty important for most jobs, something should be done about this. Every school has a different method of tackling those who don't reach the grades, and some of these methods just aren't helping. I don't know what can be done, though

[-Liberty]

I agree. Most schools have the facilities to allow children to excel. In this country most people have access to the internet for free as long as they have access to the library. I genuinely don't understand why people don't make good use of resources. The only reason I can think of is negative attitudes leading to the failure of our new generations.
I think another issue is that this country possibly offers too many opportunities. There are too many other options if you fail to gain qualifications. In many countries in Africa and Asia, if you don't get qualifications, you are screwed. However here you are provided with free money, apprenticeships, BTECs etc. There is a laziness complex that doesn't exist elsewhere. If you are struggling, try this instead. Rather than actually work at it.
Of course there may be other reasons, but I went to a school where we only had a 50% pass rate. This is what I witnessed.

[gumball]

Link to statistics, please.

EDIT: Enjoying the people that think citing statistics without providing a source is a legitimate way to start a discussion.

[Llamageddon]

(Original post by Sarabande)
I've found that among some teachers nowadays, none of them have the drive for the job, it seems like teaching is like a Plan B for them. My thoughts anyway.

Teaching has improved dramatically. If you were just a bit older you'd have seen it happen.

[Politricks]

(Original post by -Liberty)
I agree. Most schools have the facilities to allow children to excel. In this country most people have access to the internet for free as long as they have access to the library. I genuinely don't understand why people don't make good use of resources. The only reason I can think of is negative attitudes leading to the failure of our new generations.
I think another issue is that this country possibly offers too many opportunities. There are too many other options if you fail to gain qualifications. In many countries in Africa and Asia, if you don't get qualifications, you are screwed. However here you are provided with free money, apprenticeships, BTECs etc. There is a laziness complex that doesn't exist elsewhere. If you are struggling, try this instead. Rather than actually work at it.
Of course there may be other reasons, but I went to a school where we only had a 50% pass rate. This is what I witnessed.

Because there's a certain culture amongst certain groups of young people in this country that's it's "uncool" to at least pass an exam or talk about anything related to academia or current affairs, the only current affairs these cretin conforming youths see fit to talk about is who's getting kicked out of the Big Brother house, or which celebrity had a boob job.

[Kidneyjean]

(Original post by hennessybubbles)
the fact that a lot of GCSEs are a joke in terms of the standard or quality- that makes it even worse..

When some people consider GCSEs a joke, it's because they see a 60% %A*-C rate as too high.

Politicians and/or the media can make it look bad either way: if everyone passes exams, then the exams are too easy. But if too many people do badly, the education system is failing. It would be too optimistic to think that we have sensible exams or intelligent students.

[No Man]

(Original post by gumball)
Link to statistics, please.

This.

It is pretty appalling, but at least it would mean there'd be less competition for advanced jobs in the future.

[brightbulb]

(Original post by aeterno)
Are these 60% those who get 5 A*-C grades or those who pass at all?

The difference being that if it's the former, this is explained by grades being scaled (i.e. there will inevitably be students who get lower than a C)

Yes, as aeterno said there is no way that EVERYONE in the country would be able to get 5 A*-C grades because of the way it is scaled sing UMS is so that there is more or less an equal proportion of people getting each grade.

[hennessybubbles]

(Original post by boba)
does it mean that the schools are failing or does it mean that GCSES are designed so that it happens

well in my experience you'd have to be in a pretty dire situation if you can't achieve 5 Cs- I tutor a student in GCSE English and her difficulty in getting a C was because she has difficulties expressing herself in written form- she didn't know the meaning of words like 'ancient' and can't identify a noun from a verb even when I explain it to her- she is very aware of how important her GCSEs are and always listens to me and tries her best

getting a C in english doesn't exactly distinguish a person academically- it basically means you have a suffient level of English to apply for a job or read a bank statement...

[plimsolls]

My feeling is that lack of discipline (teacher's inability to control the class and the self discipline which is not instilled in pupils) may have a lot to do with lack of attainment.
Also the subjects are generally taught in an incredibly dry way, kids feel uninspired, bored and ultimately like it all bares no relevance to their lives. They feel like it's nothing more than a holding bay until they are 'released' into the world. The only reason I did well was because I basically have an ocd type personality.

[MissLightyear]

How accurate are the figures?

Just that my old school claims a 40% 5A*-C rate but Im pretty sure they include GCSE equivalents too so are over inflated.

It's bad that its that low when you consider that everyone has access to education for free.

I do think its partly down to the teachers though, its generally encouraged that if youre not that bright or dont know what to do with your career you go into teaching. I mean I know people that are failing their A levels but have offers for teaching courses, and they arent even great at communicating or other skills needed for teaching other than academics ... Why is this acceptable? It leads to teachers not being interested in their jobs, so the children then become uninterested in uninspiring lessons. There's a serious lack of good teachers around.

[undergradstudent]

(Original post by brightbulb)
Yes, as aeterno said there is no way that EVERYONE in the country would be able to get 5 A*-C grades because of the way it is scaled sing UMS is so that there is more or less an equal proportion of people getting each grade.

That's not true, it's a criterion-referenced system. So if you put the right answer to every maths question, you get 100% on that exam and an A*. It doesn't matter if everyone else taking the exam also gets 100%, then you all get A*s.

The UMS system is just used to see if the exam is easier or harder than it should be (eg if nobody got above 50%, the examining body would be seriously worried and check to see if they'd made the paper far too hard).

[tonberry]

(Original post by -Liberty)
I agree. Most schools have the facilities to allow children to excel. In this country most people have access to the internet for free as long as they have access to the library. I genuinely don't understand why people don't make good use of resources. The only reason I can think of is negative attitudes leading to the failure of our new generations.
I think another issue is that this country possibly offers too many opportunities. There are too many other options if you fail to gain qualifications. In many countries in Africa and Asia, if you don't get qualifications, you are screwed. However here you are provided with free money, apprenticeships, BTECs etc. There is a laziness complex that doesn't exist elsewhere. If you are struggling, try this instead. Rather than actually work at it.
Of course there may be other reasons, but I went to a school where we only had a 50% pass rate. This is what I witnessed.

I agree with this. UK society has way too much of a 'oh you don't want to try? that's okay! we'll take care of you' view on things. It's made so many people unmotivated and lazy because they know they always have a safety net; and while that net is obviously a good idea it gets abused in this way.