[99luft Balons]

Abuse and Mistreatment of Women a/ka/a “We Treat Our Women Like Dogs” – Men in Afghanistan are notorious for abusing and mistreating women.

According to one study, more than 50% of Afghan women have experienced physical violence and 17% of have experienced rape and other forms of sexual violence.

The Taliban in particular target women including murdering female civilian school teachers, female aid workers, and all women in positions of power and authority.

While the Taliban was in power they refused to give basic human rights to women including prohibiting them from attaining an education or working. In addition, they required all women to completely cover themselves from head to foot. Why may you ask? Because the men of Afghanistan are brute animals and cannot control themselves so the women must pay by covering themselves up. Under Taliban rule women could not leave their homes without a male relative, could not speak in public and were prohibited from speaking to males who were not close relatives.
Another cultural aspect of Afghanistan is that young girls ages 13 and above are given away in the name of arranged marriages to men they may or may not know. They often encounter inhumane treatment at the hands of their husbands or the husbands’ family in the way of beatings and other harsh behavior. How bad is it you might ask? Well how bad would the treatment have to be to set yourself on fire (called self-immolation)? Yes, that is a common problem for the Afghan government – how do we keep our young married ladies from torching themselves because their husbands beat them and mistreat them so very badly.

According to the Canadian Foreign Affairs Department: “More Afghan women are choosing suicide to escape the violence and brutality of their daily lives.”

ere are a few of the headlines:

“Afghan Girls Burn Themselves to Escape Marriage” - 17 –year-old Shirin had been brought to the Herat Regional Hospital Burns Unit a few days before we met her...In the first seven months of this year, medical staff at the Herat’s burns unit – the only one of its kind in the entire country – said they have seen 51 cases of female self-immolation – only 13 have survived.

“According to NGOs, 90 Percent of Afghan Woman are Abused” - According to nongovernmental agencies, 90% of Afghan women are victims of domestic abuse
“Afghan Woman Ousted from Her Home By Husband Dies of Cold”
“Father Kills Daughter in Sar-i-Pul Province of Afghanistan” – A father beat his 19-year-old daughter who refused to marry a 12-year-old boy.

“The Tribulations of Child-bearing Children” – Rabia, 14, is expect her first child almost a year after getting married to Haji Oadullah, aged 49, his second wife. She is supposed to deliver in a few days, but this is her first visit to a health center. She is fortunate...Men often don’t allow their pregnant women to go to hospitals and doctors.

"Afghan woman to be freed from jail after agreeing to marry rapist" - An Afghan woman jailed for adultery after she was raped by a relative is set to be freed – but only after agreeing to marry the man who attacked her.Half the women in Afghan jails have been imprisoned for 'moral crimes'.


“Afghan Woman Among Worst Off in World” Afghan women are among the worst off in the world, violence against them is endemic and Afghanistan’s government fails to protect them from crimes such as rape and murder.

Reports of a new law limiting the personal rights of women, and forcing them have sex with their husbands have hit the Western media. Supposedly, President Karzai signed the bill into law to get certain influential Shiite leaders on his side for the elections. After an uproar and worldwide condemnation, the Ministry of Justice said they will review it to see if it violates Islamic law. Hopefully, the law gets scrapped, or Afghan women will not be able to use an excuse millions of women all over the world use: "Sorry, honey, not tonight, I have a headache".

All joking aside, this law is cruel and wrong as it strips women of their God given right to prevent the violation of their bodies. One has to really wonder, how in the world laws like these get even brought up. Why do Afghans have such a hatred of their mothers, sisters, wives and daughters? Is it Islam? Of course not, Afghan men have done a great job of perverting a beautiful religion and twisting sacred verses to fit their own personal agendas. It's actually the backward tribal culture that exists in Afghanistan, and while many other societies have gotten rid of their hatred for women, Afghans simply cannot shake it off. Today in Afghanistan, women are treated like objects, many are forced to marry men they do not want, and young girls are even sometimes sold off to settle gambling debts. Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)did not stop the burying of girls so that 1400 plus years later, they can be sold off like cattle.

Don't the father's of these girls who are forced into marriage see that they are participating in the rape of their daughters? Since the girl was forced, the marriage is not valid, and the child, their grandchild is now born out of wedlock. Don’t they realize that their actions are producing in the end an illegitimate grandchild? Do these Afghan men not see the shame in that? Many Islamic scholars will also agree that a forced marriage is not a valid marriage and any child born out of that marriage is born out of wedlock.

What can Afghan women do? Burn their bras like the American women did? Well, in some parts of Afghanistan, women have been burning themselves. Extreme? Yes, but apparently, the message is still not getting through. The blame has to fall on the mothers of these men as well. The first teacher a baby boy has is his mother. Why aren't these mothers teaching their sons to respect women and treat them as equals? Perhaps they are too ignorant themselves to be able to teach them. Perhaps they too suffered the same fate and don’t know any other way. It’s a horrible cycle. Either way, something has to be done; Afghan women can no longer tolerate this from they own men. No foreign invading army has brought upon more misery and suffering to the Afghan woman than the Afghan man. This has to change.

[Danen]

Islam.

[bkeevin]

(Original post by Danen)
Islam.

You are correct indeed. Islam must be the culprit. We all know there have never been any non islamic country or culture where women were or are subjugated. In fact even here in the West we all know women have always been considered equal to men. They always had the right to vote we all know it is only in muslim countries they had to fight and many died for that right. Marital rape and forced marriage have never existed in the christian West ever!!!

[Danen]

(Original post by bkeevin)
You are correct indeed. Islam must be the culprit. We all know there have never been any non islamic country or culture where women were or are subjugated. In fact even here in the West we all know women have always been considered equal to men. They always had the right to vote we all know it is only in muslim countries they had to fight and many died for that right. Marital rape and forced marriage have never existed in the christian West ever!!!

rape exists everywhere, but in the Western world the perpetator gets punished, in crazy muslim countries the victim gets punished.

[99luft Balons]

This is not an Islam-bashing thread.

Have you read through it even?

[Politicalprincess1]

At my college, in south-east England, there are many Afghan guys, who speak and look at Western girls like rubbish.An Afghan in broken english, asked me out, and when I said no, said aren't white girls suppose to be easy. Let's just say that didn't go well with girls there. Which definitely shows there mentality. If your a woman in Afghanistan you have ultimately no choice. Scholars and political figures over there still argue there is no such thing as rape in marriage, or that if you are raped as a girl, you to prevent bringing dishonor on your family, must get married to your rapist, or face stoning. External forces, can't bring change, as long as it is a backward society. Women have so much internalized this inferiority and treatment, that because of these many generations of women who have accepted this is how society should be run. New generations of women cannot change. I don't think change can be brought upon, not without the accusation of forcing Westernization.

[bkeevin]

(Original post by 99luft Balons)
Abuse and Mistreatment of Women a/ka/a “We Treat Our Women Like Dogs” – Men in Afghanistan are notorious for abusing and mistreating women.

According to one study, more than 50% of Afghan women have experienced physical violence and 17% of have experienced rape and other forms of sexual violence.

The Taliban in particular target women including murdering female civilian school teachers, female aid workers, and all women in positions of power and authority.

While the Taliban was in power they refused to give basic human rights to women including prohibiting them from attaining an education or working. In addition, they required all women to completely cover themselves from head to foot. Why may you ask? Because the men of Afghanistan are brute animals and cannot control themselves so the women must pay by covering themselves up. Under Taliban rule women could not leave their homes without a male relative, could not speak in public and were prohibited from speaking to males who were not close relatives.
Another cultural aspect of Afghanistan is that young girls ages 13 and above are given away in the name of arranged marriages to men they may or may not know. They often encounter inhumane treatment at the hands of their husbands or the husbands’ family in the way of beatings and other harsh behavior. How bad is it you might ask? Well how bad would the treatment have to be to set yourself on fire (called self-immolation)? Yes, that is a common problem for the Afghan government – how do we keep our young married ladies from torching themselves because their husbands beat them and mistreat them so very badly.

According to the Canadian Foreign Affairs Department: “More Afghan women are choosing suicide to escape the violence and brutality of their daily lives.”

ere are a few of the headlines:

“Afghan Girls Burn Themselves to Escape Marriage” - 17 –year-old Shirin had been brought to the Herat Regional Hospital Burns Unit a few days before we met her...In the first seven months of this year, medical staff at the Herat’s burns unit – the only one of its kind in the entire country – said they have seen 51 cases of female self-immolation – only 13 have survived.

“According to NGOs, 90 Percent of Afghan Woman are Abused” - According to nongovernmental agencies, 90% of Afghan women are victims of domestic abuse.
“Afghan Woman Ousted from Her Home By Husband Dies of Cold”
“Father Kills Daughter in Sar-i-Pul Province of Afghanistan” – A father beat his 19-year-old daughter who refused to marry a 12-year-old boy.

“The Tribulations of Child-bearing Children” – Rabia, 14, is expect her first child almost a year after getting married to Haji Oadullah, aged 49, his second wife. She is supposed to deliver in a few days, but this is her first visit to a health center. She is fortunate...Men often don’t allow their pregnant women to go to hospitals and doctors.

“Afghan Woman Among Worst Off in World” Afghan women are among the worst off in the world, violence against them is endemic and Afghanistan’s government fails to protect them from crimes such as rape and murder.


Reports of a new law limiting the personal rights of women, and forcing them have sex with their husbands have hit the Western media. Supposedly, President Karzai signed the bill into law to get certain influential Shiite leaders on his side for the elections. After an uproar and worldwide condemnation, the Ministry of Justice said they will review it to see if it violates Islamic law. Hopefully, the law gets scrapped, or Afghan women will not be able to use an excuse millions of women all over the world use: "Sorry, honey, not tonight, I have a headache".

All joking aside, this law is cruel and wrong as it strips women of their God given right to prevent the violation of their bodies. One has to really wonder, how in the world laws like these get even brought up. Why do Afghans have such a hatred of their mothers, sisters, wives and daughters? Is it Islam? Of course not, Afghan men have done a great job of perverting a beautiful religion and twisting sacred verses to fit their own personal agendas. It's actually the backward tribal culture that exists in Afghanistan, and while many other societies have gotten rid of their hatred for women, Afghans simply cannot shake it off. Today in Afghanistan, women are treated like objects, many are forced to marry men they do not want, and young girls are even sometimes sold off to settle gambling debts. Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)did not stop the burying of girls so that 1400 plus years later, they can be sold off like cattle.

Don't the father's of these girls who are forced into marriage see that they are participating in the rape of their daughters? Since the girl was forced, the marriage is not valid, and the child, their grandchild is now born out of wedlock. Don’t they realize that their actions are producing in the end an illegitimate grandchild? Do these Afghan men not see the shame in that? Many Islamic scholars will also agree that a forced marriage is not a valid marriage and any child born out of that marriage is born out of wedlock.

What can Afghan women do? Burn their bras like the American women did? Well, in some parts of Afghanistan, women have been burning themselves. Extreme? Yes, but apparently, the message is still not getting through. The blame has to fall on the mothers of these men as well. The first teacher a baby boy has is his mother. Why aren't these mothers teaching their sons to respect women and treat them as equals? Perhaps they are too ignorant themselves to be able to teach them. Perhaps they too suffered the same fate and don’t know any other way. It’s a horrible cycle. Either way, something has to be done; Afghan women can no longer tolerate this from they own men. No foreign invading army has brought upon more misery and suffering to the Afghan woman than the Afghan man. This has to change.

That change can probably only come with better education for both Afghan boys and girls especially concerning their own religion and then the secular world. It will definitely take decades for that change to happen but unfortunately a foreign iarmy can't impose that change on them. They need to be convinced that such change in attitude is desireable.

[bkeevin]

(Original post by Danen)
rape exists everywhere, but in the Western world the perpetator gets punished, in crazy muslim countries the victim gets punished.

Sorry to have to burst burst your bubble. Marital rape used to be rife in Britain and the law did nothing. It was only in 1991 that the marital rape exemption was abolished in the UK. Can you actually compare the level social conscience of present Afghanistan even with 18th century Britain? We only abolished such a barbaric law 21 years ago in Britain. Any society needs time to change their values.

[emclme]

Countries like these are so backward and behind! I really don't understand why they're so evil, obviously it's not everyone, but 50% of women have experienced violence and I'm sure it could be more. I don't know exactly what can be done or what is the cause, men thinking that because they're are physically stronger than women that they can control them, ridiculous. I feel that something needs to be done, I really wish that world leaders would put a stop to this sexist violence because even animals aren't this cruel. It's 2012 and yet this still carries on, absolutely appalling.

[No Man]

(Original post by Danen)
Islam.

No. (although I am surprised that women in Saudi are more equal than those in other Islamic countries)

I think the whole notion of seeing women as sex slaves comes down to development, since the attitude in Europe was the same when it was undeveloped in the middle ages, and the current nations that have the most discrimination towards women are the ones that are least developed.

[bkeevin]

(Original post by emclme)
Countries like these are so backward and behind! I really don't understand why they're so evil, obviously it's not everyone, but 50% of women have experienced violence and I'm sure it could be more. I don't know exactly what can be done or what is the cause, men thinking that because they're are physically stronger than women that they can control them, ridiculous. I feel that something needs to be done, I really wish that world leaders would put a stop to this sexist violence because even animals aren't this cruel. It's 2012 and yet this still carries on, absolutely appalling.

We have been witnessing enlightenment in the West for centuries. Yet even after the likes of Pascal, Wilberforce,Dickens,Pankhurst etc. Our societies continued to treat women, black people, poor people etc badly. Do you think most enlightened people did not know that raping your wife/racism/sexism/homophobia was bad and should never be tolerated even 200years ago in Britain. The fact is marital rape was only abolished 21years ago and gays used to be executed in Britain only 200years ago indeed. How did our parents/grand parents let all those bad things happen. Were our parents and ancestors inherently bad?

[emclme]

(Original post by bkeevin)
We have been witnessing enlightenment in the West for centuries. Yet even after the likes of Pascal, Wilberforce,Dickens,Pankhurst etc. Our societies continued to treat women, black people, poor people etc badly. Do you think most enlightened people did not know that raping your wife/racism/sexism/homophobia was bad and should never be tolerated even 200years ago in Britain. The fact is marital rape was only abolished 21years ago and gays used to be executed in Britain only 200years ago indeed. How did our parents/grand parents let all those bad things happen. Were our parents and ancestors inherently bad?

We've moved on, I wasn't even born 21 years ago, the fact is we shouldn't be reflecting on our past mistakes, but looking to make them right. I'm not saying that every single person in the West is perfect, we're far from it! But we have laws against the mistreatment of women, whereas in Afghanistan women aren't treated as equals. Yes, I too find it appalling that marital rape was legal and that homosexuals were killed 200 years ago but this isn't happening today. I'm not saying that our ancestors were evil, it was a different time, society was different but I certainly think that violence and rape has and always will be evil, so yes if our ancestors did rape and harm others I would find it sickening. Which is exactly what this post is about.

[bkeevin]

(Original post by emclme)
We've moved on, I wasn't even born 21 years ago, the fact is we shouldn't be reflecting on our past mistakes, but looking to make them right. I'm not saying that every single person in the West is perfect, we're far from it! But we have laws against the mistreatment of women, whereas in Afghanistan women aren't treated as equals. Yes, I too find it appalling that marital rape was legal and that homosexuals were killed 200 years ago but this isn't happening today. I'm not saying that our ancestors were evil, it was a different time, society was different but I certainly think that violence and rape has and always will be evil, so yes if our ancestors did rape and harm others I would find it sickening. Which is exactly what this post is about.

Surely if you want understand that phenomenon and such a barbaric society you need to read and see how our own society evolved from a having some barbaric outlook of life relatively recently. How our society dealt with a similar problem in the past can enable us help the Afghans also change their reluctant society. By simply comdemning the society as barbaric and backwards it will be hard to convince them to effect the desired change which is always going to be gradual, slow and very frustrating atimes. But it is worth it for the sake of those little girls and our humanity to try to help them enter into the modern age and civilisation

[effofex]

(Original post by Politicalprincess1)
At my college, in south-east England, there are many Afghan guys, who speak and look at Western girls like rubbish.An Afghan in broken english, asked me out, and when I said no, said aren't white girls suppose to be easy. Let's just say that didn't go well with girls there. Which definitely shows there mentality. If your a woman in Afghanistan you have ultimately no choice. Scholars and political figures over there still argue there is no such thing as rape in marriage, or that if you are raped as a girl, you to prevent bringing dishonor on your family, must get married to your rapist, or face stoning. External forces, can't bring change, as long as it is a backward society. Women have so much internalized this inferiority and treatment, that because of these many generations of women who have accepted this is how society should be run. New generations of women cannot change. I don't think change can be brought upon, not without the accusation of forcing Westernization.

One option they may have is to cross the border into Balochistan (south-west Pakistan) and then sail to the Indian coast (Gujurat/Maharashtra) where they could claim asylum and be treated as equals to men.

[effofex]

(Original post by No Man)
No. (although I am surprised that women in Saudi are more equal than those in other Islamic countries)

I think the whole notion of seeing women as sex slaves comes down to development, since the attitude in Europe was the same when it was undeveloped in the middle ages, and the current nations that have the most discrimination towards women are the ones that are least developed.

Not necessarily. In some of the most technologically advanced/richest states on the planet (Qatar, UAE, Oman, Saudi) there is still alot of discrimination towards women.

[Clip]

I left the Army way before A'stan started, but I have a lot of friends that have been. I also have an in-law from Afghanistan, who fled some years ago. This is basically what I have managed to glean from them:

Imagine all the very stupidest people you know. The most ignorant, the worst bullies, the most stubborn, the most racist, the most vile. People you knew at school, your boss at work, the alcoholic that wanders around the Tesco car park.

Now get all those people together and tell them over many, many years not that they are wrong and need education or help, but that they are absolutely right in whatever it is they believe and should pursue their own ends regardless of anyone else.

Now give them each an AK47 and you have Afghanistan.

[harmony_01]

1.Afghanistan has a host of problems as we fully well know, to solely look at Islam is mind-boggling. To cite the article, "continuing conflict, Nato airstrikes and cultural practices combine to make Afghanistan a very dangerous place for women," said Antonella Notari, head of Women Change Makers, a group that supports women social entrepreneurs around the world.


2. ~30 years of occupation of Afghanistan doesn't help either.

In October, the United Nations published a report on rampant torture in Afghan government detention facilities. As a Western official who investigated torture under the Communist regime told me, just “replace 2011 with 1979 and guess what?” Things have barely changed. [1]




3. Indonesia has the largest population of Muslims. It isn't on the list of the top 5 worst places to live as a woman.

India, Congo, Somalia, Pakistan and Afghanistan are actually.

The LRA in Uganda has used the exact same tactic as described by OP in its war and this has spread to the Congo (also on the world's worst place for women poll), I suggest Time Magazine do a follow up edition on that. [2] I can now claim Christianity persecutes women.


Nor is Pakistan based on religion but on the cultural practice of honour killings.This has been extensively discussed in this thread, "Muslim" parents of 'honour killing victim' schoolgirl, 17, charged with her murder.

As for Somalia, it saw saw a glimpse of stability when the Islamic Courts came to rule because having anarchy in that country, is bliss for businesses seeking to exploit its uranium,fisheries and in general dump their toxic waste on its shores


4. Female Muslims evidently do not share your view about Islam.


5. As mentioned on another thread,
If you want 'cultural' stats, here are some: 45% of British women have experienced domestic violence, sexual abuse or stalking, 70% of domestic violence against women result in an injury, 40% of all female homicides are by a partner. Sounds like domestic violence is live and kicking in Britain. Now let me look for a tenuous link to Christianity or being white.

[No Man]

(Original post by effofex)
Not necessarily. In some of the most technologically advanced/richest states on the planet (Qatar, UAE, Oman, Saudi) there is still alot of discrimination towards women.

It's still worse in a lot of less developed countries.

[effofex]

(Original post by No Man)
It's still worse in a lot of less developed countries.

Yes - but notice that Greece ranks alot higher than Saudi. And Greece is impoverished in relative terms.

[bkeevin]

(Original post by effofex)
Yes - but notice that Greece ranks alot higher than Saudi. And Greece is impoverished in relative terms.

You can also note that Greece ranks alot higher than any of Brazil, Russia, India or China!!! So it is not all to do with religion or economic prosperity. I would contend that culture, education and the relative openness/isolationism of the people are more important factors.