Scientific evidence in Islam? Age of the universe, the Big Bang and the Expansion.
Discuss religious, spiritual, and theological issues concerning Christianity, Judaism, Islam, or any other religion.
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Re: Scientific evidence in Islam? Age of the universe, the Big Bang and the ExpansionI'm sure you are but does that you mean you can't be wrong. How about the human digestive system, is that not factual rather than theoretical, as it can be observed, as well all the lipids, ect...(Original post by Gofre)
Ironically I'm actually studying biology at university.
Why, care to share your genius insight?
Evolution is a inductive, not deductive. -
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Re: Scientific evidence in Islam? Age of the universe, the Big Bang and the ExpansionExactly! We can't have it, so this is why the claims of the quran regarding the origins of the universe are simply fiction, nothing to do with science or facts or evidence.(Original post by King-Panther)
Indeed, how can we have evidence for something that is beyond matter, or infact the universe! -
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Re: Scientific evidence in Islam? Age of the universe, the Big Bang and the ExpansionI did a while back. Complete with a diagram explaining how they're defined. You weren't having any of it and you continue to think they're the same but rotated 90 degrees. Clearly you think the guy with the degree in maths knows less about this sort of stuff than you. No point in arguing against that.(Original post by King-Panther)
Tell me the difference between an oblate and a prolate. You know I'm right, this is futile. -
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Re: Scientific evidence in Islam? Age of the universe, the Big Bang and the ExpansionI'm going to reply to your wall post in a minute, I wanted to do revision but that looks like it has to wait..(Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
no it refers to an egg,
an ostritch egg is egg shaped
http://img.tootoo.com/mytootoo/uploa...1c9e441700.jpg
No anwer re the quranic stories about noah?
No, an ostrich egg is oblate, what does oblate mean?
I think you should do your research before attempting to debate me. -
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Re: Scientific evidence in Islam? Age of the universe, the Big Bang and the ExpansionHe can be wrong. But thousands of scientists with decades and decades of research all pointing to the same conclusion, that evolution exists..the chance that they are wrong is very close to zero.(Original post by King-Panther)
I'm sure you are but does that you mean you can't be wrong. How about the human digestive system, is that not factual rather than theoretical, as it can be observed, as well all the lipids, ect...
Evolution is a inductive, not deductive. -
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Re: Scientific evidence in Islam? Age of the universe, the Big Bang and the ExpansionWell if their gods throne is bigger than the universe then it exists outside the universe and as a result the rules of physics would be completely different in said bigger outside the universe place so relativity would not apply.(Original post by Mouldy_Underwear)
It's true that there are many scientific inaccuracies in the Qur'an such as as no evolution. There is also stuff such as it saying that living things are made from water but it also says that they are made from clay and nothing too. The earth being spherical is another one but the knowledge of that was already well established in the region at that time, so much so that the circumference of the Earth was calculated to a high accuracy.
However something that is particularly interesting is the Islamic account of the creation story. According to Islam the Universe and the Earth were created in six days. Whilst many people would say that it would be silly to literally believe it took six days, from what I've gathered it may have actually have been six days. This is because, in Einsteins theory of relativity, there are factors which can affect the flow of time. One of the factors is mass, and it is mentioned in the Qur'an that God's Throne is much much more massive than the universe, and if that is so than the flow of time is much slower there. Therefore six days in God's Throne may well be 13.7 billion years. Since the universe was created in six days, the time taken for the creation of the solar system and the earth is believed to be 2 days. That is 2/6 or 1/3 of the 13.7 billion years. This gives a value of 4.57 billion years and the earth is believed to be 4.54 billion years, if you take into account the uncertainties than you can get 4.57 billion.
This coupled with other things that the Qur'an says about the universe such as it all coming from one point and that is continues to expand seem to give the religion a lot of support especially since it this knowledge wasn't known at the time. I haven't gone through a great amount of research to find this information so some of it may be incorrect, if I made a mistake please point that out. Anyway what are your thoughts on this?
Honestly the Quran is pretty unimpressive as far as knowledge about the world goes, like the bible it contains very little in the way of accurate information and all these Islamic pseudo-scientists just attempt to find evidence where there is none and try to back it up with mistranslated words and misunderstood scientific theories, take the supposed claim the Quran tells us about the big bang:
“The heaven and the earth were joint together. And We clove them…"
Is the bit usually used, apparently this describes the big bang. really? according to the modern big bang theory the Universe was once in an extremely hot and dense state which expanded rapidly and this rapid expansion caused the Universe to cool and resulted in its present continuously expanding state. Nothing was clove, the earth didn't even exist and nothing was joint together.
The whole "Quran contains miracles" thing is just good showmanship by the preachers to a gullible audience who want to believe something so badly they are willing to believe pretty much anything. Don't be taken in by it. -
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Re: Scientific evidence in Islam? Age of the universe, the Big Bang and the ExpansionThe arguement for the earth being ostrich shaped is obselete when you consider that it is only described like that in one verse, and as carpet like for the rest of the qur'an. And also the word Duhaha can also and most likely means spread out not ostrich shaped, heres a reference with the Qur'ans description of the Earth's shape, http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Flat_Earth_and_the_Qur%27an(Original post by King-Panther)
I'm going to reply to your wall post in a minute, I wanted to do revision but that looks like it has to wait..
No, an ostrich egg is oblate, what does oblate mean?
I think you should do your research before attempting to debate me. -
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Re: Scientific evidence in Islam? Age of the universe, the Big Bang and the ExpansionI remember, I know what they both mean.(Original post by SsEe)
I did a while back. Complete with a diagram explaining how they're defined. You weren't having any of it and you continue to think they're the same but rotated 90 degrees. Clearly you think the guy with the degree in maths knows less about this sort of stuff than you. No point in arguing against that.
No, I didn't say they were, I said who is to say which way the an egg is up, its not like the earth that has its poles.
I intend to study maths combined with physics at a later date, anyhow what makes you think you're better than I?
However that is irrelevant, as is your degree because how does that prove which way up in terms of an ostrich egg. -
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Re: Scientific evidence in Islam? Age of the universe, the Big Bang and the Expansion(Original post by King-Panther)
Mate, which inaccuracies? Why are you speaking as evolution is a fact, it is not.
Clay, is another term for matter.
No, the Quran states that the earth is oblate spheroid, which it is, its not spherical.
I didn't reply to the rest, as I've revision to do...
Are we really going to do this again?The shape of the Earth approximates an oblate spheroid,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth#Shape
The egg it refers to is an ostrich, which is also oblate.
Let's, I secretly enjoy it.
Earth= OBLATE spheroid
Egg= PROLATE spheroid
Oblate is longer at the equator than the poles. Prolate is longer at the poles than the equator.Tell me the difference between an oblate and a prolate. You know I'm right, this is futile.
Rotation doesn't matter, a pole is a pole. If you rotated the Earth by 90 degrees, it would still be oblate as its poles would rotate with it.(Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
surely it depends on which axis you hold the egg as to whether its prolate or oblate?
never thought id type that statement -
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Re: Scientific evidence in Islam? Age of the universe, the Big Bang and the ExpansionIve done all my research, its hard to debate someone that doesnt reply when theyve been proved wrong.(Original post by King-Panther)
I'm going to reply to your wall post in a minute, I wanted to do revision but that looks like it has to wait..
No, an ostrich egg is oblate, what does oblate mean?
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Re: Scientific evidence in Islam? Age of the universe, the Big Bang and the ExpansionWhat do you mean by "the digestive system" and "all the lipids"? And you're comparing physical objects to a process, which is akin to a physicist comparing gravity to molecules. Both are factually proven (Because evolution is factual), but this was determined through different processes.(Original post by King-Panther)
I'm sure you are but does that you mean you can't be wrong. How about the human digestive system, is that not factual rather than theoretical, as it can be observed, as well all the lipids, ect...
Evolution is a inductive, not deductive. -
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Re: Scientific evidence in Islam? Age of the universe, the Big Bang and the ExpansionNothing in science is certain and I think you're getting it twisted, the evidence isn't as strong as you think.(Original post by LeeC)
He can be wrong. But thousands of scientists with decades and decades of research all pointing to the same conclusion, that evolution exists..the chance that they are wrong is very close to zero. -
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Re: Scientific evidence in Islam? Age of the universe, the Big Bang and the ExpansionWho defines the pole of an egg?(Original post by PandyAndy)
Are we really going to do this again?
Let's, I secretly enjoy it.
Earth= OBLATE spheroid
Egg= PROLATE spheroid
Oblate is longer at the equator than the poles. Prolate is longer at the poles than the equator.
Rotation doesn't matter, a pole is a pole. If you rotated the Earth by 90 degrees, it would still be oblate as its poles would rotate with it. -
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Re: Scientific evidence in Islam? Age of the universe, the Big Bang and the ExpansionEven if you were the cleverest scientist on Earth, you couldn't even attempt to prove the Quran wrong until you understand the language, metaphors, similes, context of the arabic first.. So you can't disprove it even though you have a basic understanding of science..(Original post by LeeC)
As I've said before, I can't provide a proper scientific paper like you are asking for since scientists don't go around disproving inaccuracies in religious texts, they have better things to do. But anyone with a basic understanding of science (eg. knows about evolution) can easily show the quran to be scientifically dubious.
If you still don't understand what I'm saying, it's the same reason why scientists don't go around showing how inaccurate science fiction films are. Again, they have better things to do with their time since anybody with a basic knowledge can do it. Also, disproving inaccuracies in works of fiction is really not part of science, and would never get published in a journal. Same goes for the quran.
And the comparison with scientific films is quite stupid? Religion dictates the lifes of billions in the present, has done so in the past and will continue to do so in the future, the same cannot be said about a movie..Last edited by xXxiKillxXx; 09-04-2012 at 22:29. -
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Re: Scientific evidence in Islam? Age of the universe, the Big Bang and the ExpansionEvolution is a fact(Original post by Gofre)
What do you mean by "the digestive system" and "all the lipids"? And you're comparing physical objects to a process, which is akin to a physicist comparing gravity to molecules. Both are factually proven (Because evolution is factual), but this was determined through different processes.
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Re: Scientific evidence in Islam? Age of the universe, the Big Bang and the ExpansionI never said anything was 100% certain. But the theory of evolution is as well grounded in fact as the theory of gravity. Sorry if this doesn't fit in with your religious beliefs, but this is the case.(Original post by King-Panther)
Nothing in science is certain and I think you're getting it twisted, the evidence isn't as strong as you think. -
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Re: Scientific evidence in Islam? Age of the universe, the Big Bang and the ExpansionI wouldn't depend on that. He can go and research about evolution for himself like here and not just depend on misconstrued arguments from creationist websites like this.(Original post by LeeC)
He can be wrong. But thousands of scientists with decades and decades of research all pointing to the same conclusion, that evolution exists..the chance that they are wrong is very close to zero. -
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Re: Scientific evidence in Islam? Age of the universe, the Big Bang and the Expansion(Original post by PandyAndy)
Rotation doesn't matter, a pole is a pole. If you rotated the Earth by 90 degrees, it would still be oblate as its poles would rotate with it.
my point was in relation to an egg, seeing as it was mentioned in the quran, an egg doesnt have 'poles' , so id asuume if you drew them in, they stayed in the same place when you turn it 90 degrees, does it not switch from prolate to oblate. or whatever? -
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Re: Scientific evidence in Islam? Age of the universe, the Big Bang and the ExpansionIt was just discovered recently(20th century) that there are internal waves within seas/oceans. The Quran states:
“Or (the unbelievers’ state) is like the darkness in a deep sea. It is covered by waves, above which are waves, above which are clouds. Darknesses, one above another. If a man stretches out his hand, he cannot see it....” (Quran 24:40)
http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/217/
Anyone wanna try disproving this? -
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Re: Scientific evidence in Islam? Age of the universe, the Big Bang and the ExpansionNo, gravity is a law, hence the law of gravity. Evolution is a theory, ha!(Original post by LeeC)
I never said anything was 100% certain. But the theory of evolution is as well grounded in fact as the theory of gravity. Sorry if this doesn't fit in with your religious beliefs, but this is the case.
