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Imam marries gay Muslim couple in France, French government refuses to recognise it.

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    (Original post by Reform)
    My argument is that he CANNOT believe he is correct because it goes directly against the Quran and Sunnah.

    I'm not saying he isn't a Muslim.

    For instance, deliberately missing one of the five prayers in Islam is kufr.
    You said he wasn't a Muslim if he believed what he was doing was in line with Islam, which tbf to him he probably knew it was wrong (from an Islamic perspective)

    But, as he's gay himself he probably sympathised with the couple.

    Not sure what you're getting at with your prayer thing
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    (Original post by silent ninja)
    Believe it or not, there are clear criteria for what constitutes a Muslim. Scholars agree on this. It's a rich religion, it's not a loose hocus pocus jumbo jumbo you casually read in your basement. One of the criteria is believing in every verse in the Quran. Denying the truth of a verse takes you out of Islam. So you can't say there are three Gods or alcohol is okay or being gay is allowed. Those clearly contradict the book.
    Why does it matter what scholars agree on? If you held alternative views and you became a scholar, then what? Scholars after all are only people, like you.

    Not everyone is going to hold the same views... That's why religions will be split up... I.e. sunny/Shia/etc

    You can't use someone else's opinions, or your opinions as facts used to judge other people....

    Believe it or not, but there is no such thing as a true Muslim detector, all you get are a bunch of arrogant prats who think they know a Muslim when they see one when they do not
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    (Original post by akash11)
    Nobody is saying its from islam youve just repeadly claimed its not permited in islam, and it attitudies like yours which create hatred towards muslims and prevent islam from moving into the 21st century. Like or not people do not like have a segement of the population with such constracting views on society people like are the problem with intergration.
    Nobody says it's from Islam? Have you read the thread title. It clearly suggests via mentioning the imam that it is indeed from/condoned in Islam.

    If integration is a homogenous bunch of people, then I think you'll find many people disagree with it. We are all different but as long as we're not hurting each other who cares? We're in Britain so I frankly don't care what gays get up to, it's not my business, but what does bother be is 'imams' like this spreading mistruths and misleading people.
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    (Original post by Dmon1Unlimited)
    Why does it matter what scholars agree on? If you held alternative views and you became a scholar, then what? Scholars after all are only people, like you.

    Not everyone is going to hold the same views... That's why religions will be split up... I.e. sunny/Shia/etc

    You can't use someone else's opinions, or your opinions as facts used to judge other people....

    Believe it or not, but there is no such thing as a true Muslim detector, all you get are a bunch of arrogant prats who think they know a Muslim when they see one when they do not
    Scholars actually study texts, research and are knowledgeable so forgive me for taking advice from an expert with credentials. Why don't you become a chemist so that you can make your own medicines? No need for a GP either just study medicine in your basement.

    FYI Islam is very structured and the core is clearly defined. It's not a do it yourself religion and make up as you go along. It's an institution.
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    (Original post by silent ninja)
    It's an institution.
    Like the US Military?
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    (Original post by Ayshizzle)
    I'm hardly clutching at straws, I'm showing you the difference between being gay, and homosexual acts. Or are you going to start arguing with me and say that there's no different between being a heterosexual and having sex?

    Yes, marriage is a union of a couple, but that means many things to people. Did you ever consider that the reason this couple got married was to show their love and commitment to eachother?
    Homosexual love and commitment to each other you mean. Do you marry your friends? In that case it is considered gay and forbidden. It's simple.
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    (Original post by silent ninja)
    Scholars actually study texts, research and are knowledgeable so forgive me for taking advice from an expert with credentials. Why don't you become a chemist so that you can make your own medicines? No need for a GP either just study medicine in your basement.

    FYI Islam is very structured and the core is clearly defined. It's not a do it yourself religion and make up as you go along. It's an institution.
    Islam is not an institution.

    It is summed up as purely the words of God in the Qur'an.

    Anyone can choose to interpret the words of God in any way they want, even Muslims. There is nothing you or I can do about that.

    So obviously gay Muslims, or gay Imams/Muslim Scholars have very different inerpretations on the issue of homosexuality in their religion than you or I do, whether we view their stances as incorrect or not.
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    (Original post by silent ninja)
    Scholars actually study texts, research and are knowledgeable so forgive me for taking advice from an expert with credentials. Why don't you become a chemist so that you can make your own medicines? No need for a GP either just study medicine in your basement.

    FYI Islam is very structured and the core is clearly defined. It's not a do it yourself religion and make up as you go along. It's an institution.
    What and someone with different views can't do the same?

    I assume, the scholar I mentioned is the chemist and the gp is yours. Well isn't that biased of you....
    Why do you think a scholar with alternative views is inferior to 'regular scholars'?

    a correct example would be: a scholar with alternative views is a GP that uses a different variety of medicine that still work....

    To someone who takes it too literally, perhaps, to someone who actually thinks about others compassionate, it's not as literal. Your issue is you think people randomly make up new stuff they want to follow to take the piss.... They truly believe in it... How would you like me to say you are not Muslim because you follow it the old fashioned way?
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    (Original post by silent ninja)
    Homosexual love and commitment to each other you mean. Do you marry your friends? In that case it is considered gay and forbidden. It's simple.
    Actually being gay or having a gay marriage is not at all punishable in Islam.

    It is sodomy which is the big debatable issue. (I.e having anal sex with someone, regardless of their gender.)

    Loving another man romanticly is not even mentioned or condemned in the Qur'an.
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    (Original post by Ayshizzle)
    You said he wasn't a Muslim if he believed what he was doing was in line with Islam, which tbf to him he probably knew it was wrong (from an Islamic perspective)

    But, as he's gay himself he probably sympathised with the couple.

    Not sure what you're getting at with your prayer thing
    If a Muslim declares something as lawful, while it is unlawful in the Quran and Hadith, how can they still be a Muslim?
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    (Original post by silent ninja)
    Homosexual love and commitment to each other you mean. Do you marry your friends? In that case it is considered gay and forbidden. It's simple.
    Show me the verse where it says it is forbidden to love someone of the same sex? Do I marry my friends? No because I'm not in love with them (bar my bf) and don't need an official commitment ceremony.
    And "gay" and homosexual are the same thing, in case you weren't aware.
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    (Original post by Reform)
    If a Muslim declares something as lawful, while it is unlawful in the Quran and Hadith, how can they still be a Muslim?
    Again simply being gay and loving a partner of the same sex is not condemned in the Qur'an or actually pubishable in Islam.

    SODOMY is what is referred to in the story of Lot, Sodom and Gomorrah, and what is essentially referred to as "backward" in the Qur'an by God.

    Loving someone of the same sex, and having anal sex are two VERY different things.
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    (Original post by Reform)
    If a Muslim declares something as lawful, while it is unlawful in the Quran and Hadith, how can they still be a Muslim?
    Did he say it was lawful?
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    What if the gay couple dont entertain in anal sex for non religious reasons and only have oral sex?

    Is that, likewise, condemned by the Quran?
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    (Original post by Reform)
    If a Muslim declares something as lawful, while it is unlawful in the Quran and Hadith, how can they still be a Muslim?
    Are you just going to sprout the same nonsense over and over?

    It's not like he's randomly declaring crap for no reason...
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    (Original post by Ayshizzle)
    Did he say it was lawful?
    That's what I'm getting at.

    The whole debate is based off this.

    If he didn't then the issue is with him and God.

    Me and Dmon were having the debate because he believes it's possible to still be a Muslim and believe his acts were right because the Quran is 'ancient' as he claims.
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    (Original post by silent ninja)
    Homosexual love and commitment to each other you mean. Do you marry your friends? In that case it is considered gay and forbidden. It's simple.


    Youre simple. 70 year old hetrosexual couples marry without any intention of having sex, simply companionship.
    The quran mentions sodomy (which you could practice with a female btw), nothing else.

    Thats why in some of the most strict muslim countires in the world, men are still allowed to hold hands or even kiss each other in public, which they arnt even allowed to do with women.
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    (Original post by Ayshizzle)
    Show me the verse where it says it is forbidden to love someone of the same sex? Do I marry my friends? No because I'm not in love with them (bar my bf) and don't need an official commitment ceremony.
    And "gay" and homosexual are the same thing, in case you weren't aware.
    There are countless verses and hadith stating that marriage is between a man and woman, immediately followed by things like children, procreation, offspring etc (which only heterosexual couples can do). In addition homosexuality is strictly forbidden. So afterthe ample evidence, you still think same sex can marry? You are clutching at straw and are being rather silly about it
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    (Original post by Reform)
    That's what I'm getting at.

    The whole debate is based off this.

    If he didn't then the issue is with him and God.

    Me and Dmon were having the debate because he believes it's possible to still be a Muslim and believe his acts were right because the Quran is 'ancient' as he claims.
    Not really, the debate has mainly been about whether people should be allowed to be gay or not.

    There isn't technically anything in the Qur'an which prohibits gay marriage, just gay sex.

    And well, it was written a long time ago.

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Updated: May 22, 2012
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