[Dmon1Unlimited]

(Original post by Reform)
If a Muslim declares something as lawful, while it is unlawful in the Quran and Hadith, how can they still be a Muslim?

Are you just going to sprout the same nonsense over and over?

It's not like he's randomly declaring crap for no reason...

[Reform]

(Original post by Ayshizzle)
Did he say it was lawful?

That's what I'm getting at.

The whole debate is based off this.

If he didn't then the issue is with him and God.

Me and Dmon were having the debate because he believes it's possible to still be a Muslim and believe his acts were right because the Quran is 'ancient' as he claims.

[I-Am-A-Tripod]

(Original post by silent ninja)
Homosexual love and commitment to each other you mean. Do you marry your friends? In that case it is considered gay and forbidden. It's simple.

Youre simple. 70 year old hetrosexual couples marry without any intention of having sex, simply companionship.
The quran mentions sodomy (which you could practice with a female btw), nothing else.

Thats why in some of the most strict muslim countires in the world, men are still allowed to hold hands or even kiss each other in public, which they arnt even allowed to do with women.

[silent ninja]

(Original post by Ayshizzle)
Show me the verse where it says it is forbidden to love someone of the same sex? Do I marry my friends? No because I'm not in love with them (bar my bf) and don't need an official commitment ceremony.
And "gay" and homosexual are the same thing, in case you weren't aware.

There are countless verses and hadith stating that marriage is between a man and woman, immediately followed by things like children, procreation, offspring etc (which only heterosexual couples can do). In addition homosexuality is strictly forbidden. So afterthe ample evidence, you still think same sex can marry? You are clutching at straw and are being rather silly about it

[Ayshizzle]

(Original post by Reform)
That's what I'm getting at.

The whole debate is based off this.

If he didn't then the issue is with him and God.

Me and Dmon were having the debate because he believes it's possible to still be a Muslim and believe his acts were right because the Quran is 'ancient' as he claims.

Not really, the debate has mainly been about whether people should be allowed to be gay or not.

There isn't technically anything in the Qur'an which prohibits gay marriage, just gay sex.

And well, it was written a long time ago.

[silent ninja]

(Original post by I-Am-A-Tripod)
Youre simple. 70 year old hetrosexual couples marry without any intention of having sex, simply companionship.
The quran mentions sodomy (which you could practice with a female btw), nothing else.

Thats why in some of the most strict muslim countires in the world, men are still allowed to hold hands or even kiss each other in public, which they arnt even allowed to do with women.

You forget how Islam defines marriage, just like Christianity, between man and woman. 5 minutes of research will convince you the same but you're bent on shoving your liberal agenda.

[Ayshizzle]

(Original post by silent ninja)
There are countless verses and hadith stating that marriage is between a man and woman, immediately followed by things like children, procreation, offspring etc (which only heterosexual couples can do).

Well I don't value the Hadith. And yes, with the Qur'an verses, do you think everyone sticks to this? Do you think everyone just marries and has children, job done?
The value of marriage has changed a lot. For example, arranged marriages were strictly the way to go, now some people marry people they love. So, when a homosexual couple marries, it is for the same reasons someone having a love marriage marries.

In addition homosexuality is strictly forbidden. So afterthe ample evidence, you still think same sex can marry? You are clutching at straw and are being rather silly about it

You're still failing to make the distinction aren't you? There is a difference between being gay, and having anal sex. Same way that there is a difference between being heterosexual, and having vaginal sex.
You;re the one being silly, you can't even tell the difference between being of a certain sexuality, and actually having sex.

[Dmon1Unlimited]

A gay couple doesn't necessarily mean gay sex will be involved, the same way a straight couple doesn't necessarily have sex....

Not everyone has to have sex in a relationship. If asexual people exist, then why is this point so hard to understand?

You can love someone without wanting to have sex with them... Look at your mums for example...


To summarise gay relationships=/=certainly having gay sex

[Reform]

(Original post by Ayshizzle)
Not really, the debate has mainly been about whether people should be allowed to be gay or not.

There isn't technically anything in the Qur'an which prohibits gay marriage, just gay sex.

And well, it was written a long time ago.

I mean the side debate I'm having with him.

For some reason he doesn't want to accept what I'm saying.

In response to your last sentence, no Imam would take the risk of wedding two homosexuals. I also follow the Hadith of the prophet so no, I do not believe in gay marriages.

[Reform]

(Original post by Ayshizzle)
Yep sure is! So that person doesn't really have any authority in proclaiming who's a Muslim and who's not lol

I just want to say that I don't randomly accuse Muslims of being Kafir. I didn't even accuse him of being Kafir. It's the intention he has tbh.

[Ayshizzle]

(Original post by Reform)
I mean the side debate I'm having with him.

For some reason he doesn't want to accept what I'm saying.

In response to your last sentence, no Imam would take the risk of wedding two homosexuals. I also follow the Hadith of the prophet so no, I do not believe in gay marriages.

Well the main theme here seems to be that people are failing to distinguish solely being homosexual, with doing a homosexual act. The latter is prohibited by Islam, not the former.

Interesting, so are you taking the authority of the Hadith over the authority of the Qur'an?

[Ayshizzle]

(Original post by Reform)
I just want to say that I don't randomly accuse Muslims of being Kafir. I didn't even accuse him of being Kafir. It's the intention he has tbh.

Ofc, but tbh we don't know what his intentions were. I'm sure, as an Imam, he himself knows that what he has done is not permitted (directly) by Islam. But there are probably numerous factors (including his own feelings, being gay himself) at play. And Islam does say not to judge others, so maybe people should take heed of that.

[Reform]

(Original post by Ayshizzle)
Well the main theme here seems to be that people are failing to distinguish solely being homosexual, with doing a homosexual act. The latter is prohibited by Islam, not the former.

Interesting, so are you taking the authority of the Hadith over the authority of the Qur'an?

No I don't.

The Hadith expands on certain passages. For instance, we're told to pray in the Quran and the Hadith tells us how. The same can be applicable to homosexual acts.

[Dmon1Unlimited]

(Original post by Reform)
I mean the side debate I'm having with him.

For some reason he doesn't want to accept what I'm saying.

I can say the same about you, you havent accepted anything ive said and keep sprouting nonsense like he is not muslim....

I accept what you have said, and I have given reasons for my counter argument (does 'its your own view of the religion' ring a bell?). You just keep restating the same thing over with mine. You keep using your own view as basis to critisize why it is wrong when I say your view is not fact

Though it seems now you're just playing the ignore card when I'm trying to converse...

[Ayshizzle]

(Original post by Reform)
No I don't.

The Hadith expands on certain passages. For instance, we're told to pray in the Quran and the Hadith tells us how. The same can be applicable to homosexual acts.

The Qur'an also says you should only use that for guidance.

And yes, homosexual acts. Not homosexuality in general.

[LtCommanderData]

(Original post by silent ninja)
There is interpretation room for how you pray, which foods are allowed etc There is no such room for many other things, gays being one. No gay marriage in Islam I'm afraid. It's categorical.

[I-Am-A-Tripod]

(Original post by silent ninja)
You forget how Islam defines marriage, just like Christianity, between man and woman. 5 minutes of research will convince you the same but you're bent on shoving your liberal agenda.

youre bent i dont have any liberal agenda"

You have just mis-read your koran

[Reform]

(Original post by Dmon1Unlimited)
I can say the same about you, you havent accepted anything ive said and keep sprouting nonsense like he is not muslim....

I accept what you have said, and I have given reasons for my counter argument (does 'its your own view of the religion' ring a bell?). You just keep restating the same thing over with mine. You keep using your own view as basis to critisize why it is wrong when I say your view is not fact

Though it seems now you're just playing the ignore card when I'm trying to converse...

It's not that I'm ignoring you, it's just that I feel the conversation is going absolutely nowhere.

If you're a Muslim you cannot say something is right when the Quran prohibits it. You just cannot. You therefore are no longer a Muslim.

[Reform]

(Original post by Ayshizzle)
The Qur'an also says you should only use that for guidance.

And yes, homosexual acts. Not homosexuality in general.

You cannot have a homosexual marriage / partnership of any sort.

[Dmon1Unlimited]

(Original post by Reform)
It's not that I'm ignoring you, it's just that I feel the conversation is going absolutely nowhere.

If you're a Muslim you cannot say something is right when the Quran prohibits it. You just cannot. You therefore are no longer a Muslim.

Logic dictates if you think something is wrong, you should not use it when judging whether going against it is right or not....


For example: France banning the burqa...
Let's say the majority think its good this happened and you're one of them

Me: I think it's wrong, it's one step closer to the government controlling us further. First clothing, then what? Religion?

^----with this, I made a point that how things are now is flawed, and gave a reason

You: you cannot do this, you are not French if you go against the law. The law says its banned. Everyone is prohibited from wear the burqa. The law is from the government.


^----this is the kind of example youve been giving...

I'm trying to say something is flawed, but then you use the same flawed thing (that you believe is correct) in order to reply to my point....

You can't do that. It gets us no where....If you want to continue, explain why its not allowed to have alternative views without restating the quran prohibits this and that, or you cannot do this or that if you're Muslim.

Good luck, I doubt I'd be able to do that :/