[redferry]

http://www.facebook.com/notes/julia-...50626038172852

Here's the tumblr link just incase you can't see it through fb:
http://thelittlekneesofbees.tumblr.c...patriarchy-and

I just thought I would share.

[ckingalt]

(Original post by redferry)
http://www.facebook.com/notes/julia-...50626038172852

Here's the tumblr link just incase you can't see it through fb:
http://thelittlekneesofbees.tumblr.c...patriarchy-and

I just thought I would share.

I don't want to know about your period. Feminine issues make most guys uncomfortable.

[doggyfizzel]

Doesn't really look like a feminist blog, just looks like a man hating blog.

[Dragonfly07]

(Original post by ckingalt)
I don't want to know about your period. Feminine issues make most guys uncomfortable.

Read the thread title, *******.

[ArtGoblin]

(Original post by doggyfizzel)
Doesn't really look like a feminist blog, just looks like a man hating blog.

It sounds like you definitely need to read it.

[WelshStarKid]

(Original post by doggyfizzel)
Doesn't really look like a feminist blog, just looks like a man hating blog.

I agree.


No offence to the writer of the blog and if you have an argument against mine I will read it and hope to come to an understanding, but is the definition of a feminist not one who is seeking equal rights for all?

Now in most parts of the world, yes, this does mean that women need to be targeted to help and to give a voice to but by blaming the male population on isolated incidents you have in the past (which again, I am sorry for and I too have had my fair share of male pigs let it be said!) is being sexist, and not at all what a feminist should be?

Sorry if I have offended, that was not my purpose, it's just that as a feminist myself it does upset me when we get blogs like this that seem to be man hating and so give those feminists looking for equal rights for both sides a bad name. A bad name that prevents them from being taken seriously.

[redferry]

(Original post by doggyfizzel)
Doesn't really look like a feminist blog, just looks like a man hating blog.

how is that in any way man hating?

(Original post by WelshStarKid)
I agree.


No offence to the writer of the blog and if you have an argument against mine I will read it and hope to come to an understanding, but is the definition of a feminist not one who is seeking equal rights for all?

Now in most parts of the world, yes, this does mean that women need to be targeted to help and to give a voice to but by blaming the male population on isolated incidents you have in the past (which again, I am sorry for and I too have had my fair share of male pigs let it be said!) is being sexist, and not at all what a feminist should be?

Sorry if I have offended, that was not my purpose, it's just that as a feminist myself it does upset me when we get blogs like this that seem to be man hating and so give those feminists looking for equal rights for both sides a bad name. A bad name that prevents them from being taken seriously.

Is she in any way blaming it on the male population? No - she quite clearly addresses the points to the men that she has had negative experiences with. At no point does she say 'to men in general'

[Schmokie Dragon]

(Original post by doggyfizzel)
Doesn't really look like a feminist blog, just looks like a man hating blog.

How so?

[Dragonfly07]

I have a very quick and important point to make here.

I'm sick and tired of feminists accusing other feminists of giving them a bad name. Of muslims saying muslim terrorists give them a bad name. Of men saying rapists give all men a bad name. Of black people saying black gangs give them a bad name. Making those statements makes you just as racist, sexist and/or homophobic as the people who are going to judge your whole group based on isolated cases. Grow up.

Edit: 5 negs is a lot. Any explanations of why you may disagree with the fact that stereotypes are wrong? I expect 5 responses.

[Schmokie Dragon]

Blaming patriarchy and misogyny for the way people (men, women and those outside of the gender binary) are treated is not the same as being 'man hating'.

[redferry]

(Original post by Schmokie Dragon)
Blaming patriarchy and misogyny for the way people (men, women and those outside of the gender binary) are treated is not the same as being 'man hating'.

The thing is she isn't even generalising it to all men - she is clearly only directing it at the men similar to what she has mentioned. I don't understand how anyone could view this as man hating

[ArtGoblin]

(Original post by WelshStarKid)
I agree.


No offence to the writer of the blog and if you have an argument against mine I will read it and hope to come to an understanding, but is the definition of a feminist not one who is seeking equal rights for all?

Now in most parts of the world, yes, this does mean that women need to be targeted to help and to give a voice to but by blaming the male population on isolated incidents you have in the past (which again, I am sorry for and I too have had my fair share of male pigs let it be said!) is being sexist, and not at all what a feminist should be?

Sorry if I have offended, that was not my purpose, it's just that as a feminist myself it does upset me when we get blogs like this that seem to be man hating and so give those feminists looking for equal rights for both sides a bad name. A bad name that prevents them from being taken seriously.

They're not isolated incidents though - they're indicative of the wider culture of patriarchy. That someone who calls herself a feminist thinks they are of little consequence, or even worse, by retelling them you are being sexist, shows that they really are an issue that needs to be spoken about. You wouldn't claim that someone experiencing racist abuse on a regular basis was being racist for saying the perpetrators were white, so you shouldn't be seen as sexist for drawing attention to the sexist abuse many women experience by men.

[doggyfizzel]

(Original post by ArtGoblin)
It sounds like you definitely need to read it.

Feminism is about establishing a set of rights of equal standing for women. That includes political, economic and social rights for women.

That blog is in no way about rights, its about her experiences (some at the start her own fault) with individuals. It in no way addresses rights, it addresses some men's attitudes towards a certain women. Its about her negatives experiences with a few men. Its just a moan, about men objectifying women. She hasn't actually discussed why men objectify women? Why do men chase women? None of these have been discussed, its just a diary moaning about her negative experiences with men.

The bit at the bottom summarises it, she is assuming every man who sees her is looking at her as an object to ****, if that is her view of men, then yes its a man hating blog.

[RabbitCFH]

She sounds so PMS.

[danny111]

(Original post by redferry)
how is that in any way man hating?




Is she in any way blaming it on the male population? No - she quite clearly addresses the points to the men that she has had negative experiences with. At no point does she say 'to men in general'

Right and then she says that's how it feels like to be a woman. That's general. So what dO you think she was tying to achieve with that long list.

[Schmokie Dragon]

(Original post by redferry)
The thing is she isn't even generalising it to all men - she is clearly only directing it at the men similar to what she has mentioned. I don't understand how anyone could view this as man hating

Because a lot of people just see a list of 'waaaa, men are so mean, they wolf whistle at me and appreciate my looks, how DARE they'.

They read it as 'man hating' because they don't understand why certain social groups are privileged, how privilege affects those who have it and others, and they don't understand the causes and consequences of people behaving the way those mentioned in the blog did. In essence, they don't see the big picture and the threads of cause and effect. For many people, it's just a 'feminazi' having a bitch about how horrible men are.

There is a lot of defensiveness as well. The debate about gender equality (or gender irrelevance) highlights areas where normal, everyday folk are contributing to oppression (however subtle or 'invisible'). It puts an onus on them to change their behaviour and thought patterns in order to help change the situation. A lot of people would rather cast a situation off as 'invented', 'exaggerated' or 'unimportant' than confront their own choices and beliefs. If something doesn't matter, they don't need to change. I see the same thing with the debate surrounding veganism and animal rights.

[ArtGoblin]

(Original post by doggyfizzel)
Feminism is about establishing a set of rights of equal standing for women. That includes political, economic and social rights for women.

That blog is in no way about rights, its about her experiences (some at the start her own fault) with individuals. It in no way addresses rights, it addresses some men's attitudes towards a certain women. Its about her negatives experiences with a few men. Its just a moan, about men objectifying women. She hasn't actually discussed why men objectify women? Why do men chase women? None of these have been discussed, its just a diary moaning about her negative experiences with men.

The bit at the bottom summarises it, she is assuming every man who sees her is looking at her as an object to ****, if that is her view of men, then yes its a man hating blog.

Ever heard 'the personal is political'? This was a perfectly valid attempt to get men who think they liberal and pro-equality to see how their behaviour is perpetuating the patriarchal structure. Blog posts can't tackle every issue at once, and I think this was an effective way of getting the message across.

[screenager2004]

(Original post by redferry)
The thing is she isn't even generalising it to all men - she is clearly only directing it at the men similar to what she has mentioned. I don't understand how anyone could view this as man hating

People who call feminists 'man hating' essentially just want women to shut up and not complaint about their treatment as second rate citizens in the world.

[Schmokie Dragon]

(Original post by RabbitCFH)
She sounds so PMS.

What are you trying to say? Are you implying that if a woman is angry or upset, she's just being 'hormonal'? That her mood and feelings are not justified or rational?

[doggyfizzel]

(Original post by ArtGoblin)
Ever heard 'the personal is political'? This was a perfectly valid attempt to get men who think they liberal and pro-equality to see how their behaviour is perpetuating the patriarchal structure. Blog posts can't tackle every issue at once, and I think this was an effective way of getting the message across.

As you are defending it from being a man hating blog you then go on to assume the kind of person who is wolf whistling girls in the street (don't know who does that other than builders), gives siren alerts, and harasses girls in clubs is going to be reading a blog like that? Really? You think the men who are addressed in this blog are into reading "feminist" material.

You have also assumed men act like that "their" behaviour, who says men in general act like that exactly?

It was in no way a good way of getting the message across because it is never going to reach its target audience. If it was a discussion of why social norms exist, then I might read it, but I'm not going to read a blog moaning and complaining about other people's actions, then blaming it on "men" as if every one of us is in on this.