[RabbitCFH]

(Original post by Schmokie Dragon)
What are you trying to say? Are you implying that if a woman is angry or upset, she's just being 'hormonal'? That her mood and feelings are not justified or rational?

Only when it's hormonal anger.

[pr0view]

(Original post by screenager2004)
People who call feminists 'man hating' essentially just want women to shut up and not complaint about their treatment as second rate citizens in the world.

No we want you to shut up and stop complaining about this non-existent second rate citizenship.

[redferry]

(Original post by danny111)
Right and then she says that's how it feels like to be a woman. That's general. So what dO you think she was tying to achieve with that long list.

I think she was just venting her frustration on a point that Im sure the majority of women in this country can relate to.

It started as a note on her fb. It struck a note with a lot of people so got shared by thousands. That isnt her blog.

[ArtGoblin]

(Original post by doggyfizzel)
As you are defending it from being a man hating blog you then go on to assume the kind of person who is wolf whistling girls in the street (don't know who does that other than builders), gives siren alerts, and harasses girls in clubs is going to be reading a blog like that? Really? You think the men who are addressed in this blog are into reading "feminist" material.

You have also assumed men act like that "their" behaviour, who says men in general act like that exactly?

It was in no way a good way of getting the message across because it is never going to reach its target audience. If it was a discussion of why social norms exist, then I might read it, but I'm not going to read a blog moaning and complaining about other people's actions, then blaming it on "men" as if every one of us is in on this.

She mentions plenty of issues with students as well - the one who protects girls in clubs, the one who suggests she moves into a more up-market area, the one who refused to let her buy her own lunch etc. I thought putting those incidents alongside 'traditional' sexual harassment cases was very clever. It said "It's not just builders who do this" and tackled the classist assumptions behind the sexist behaviour in society. It is not just a working class problem, it's everywhere. Obviously that went right over your head...

[doggyfizzel]

(Original post by screenager2004)
People who call feminists 'man hating' essentially just want women to shut up and not complaint about their treatment as second rate citizens in the world.

That or they just prefer to be addressed based on their actions rather than their gender.

How about I, as a black person, label you along with the WN who seek to oppress me due to my skin colour? Why not you're white (guessing). You're part of the problem, forget the fact I don't know you or how you act. It a problem with white people.

Or maybe your not and would prefer to discuss it rather than be guilt tripped about the actions of others just because you have the ability to fall into their group. Not all men act like that. Despite what she might think, not all men see her as a walking **** me sign.

As a man you can only do so much, you can agree and ague the rights of women, you can change the way you act and see women, you cannot change the actions of random men. There is a difference between talking about social norms and why these men have acted they way they do, and why its unacceptable, and writing a diary complaining about the actions of certain men as if all men act like this. You can be a feminist without assuming every man is a misogynist.

[falseprofit]

(Original post by ckingalt)
I don't want to know about your period. Feminine issues make most guys uncomfortable.

lol, genius!

(Original post by Dragonfly07)
Read the thread title, *******.

I'm pretty sure he read the title and fully understood it. He was then able to use his wit to recognize that a slight variation in semantics could turn the meaning of the title upside down in a manner which would consist of a very clever double irony.

His post may have been offensive (one part of the double irony by the way) but it was certainly more intellectual than "Read the title, *******."

[MancStudent098]

(Original post by redferry)
I think she was just venting her frustration on a point that Im sure the majority of women in this country can relate to.

Can a majority of women relate to her position? She seems, in a two month period in Paris, to have been sexually harassed by pretty much everyone she's met. I just don't think that for most women in, say, the UK, life is the kind of unrelenting siege of testosterone driven behaviour that she describes.

[Dragonfly07]

(Original post by falseprofit)
His post may have been offensive (one part of the double irony by the way) but it was certainly more intellectual than "Read the title, *******."

I'd love to hear your definition of "intellectual". Neither of our comments had anything to do with intellect at all.

(Original post by MancStudent098)
Can a majority of women relate to her position? She seems, in a two month period in Paris, to have been sexually harassed by pretty much everyone she's met. I just don't think that for most women in, say, the UK, life is the kind of unrelenting siege of testosterone driven behaviour that she describes.

I live in the UK and actually, yes, I can relate. If anything I can assure you with 100% confidence that most girls from any country can relate. You may never personally harrass girls, and in fact most men don't. But the fact that there are a few men who do that, and those men are present everywhere you go, makes it quite overwhelming to be a female.

[doggyfizzel]

(Original post by ArtGoblin)
She mentions plenty of issues with students as well - the one who protects girls in clubs, the one who suggests she moves into a more up-market area, the one who refused to let her buy her own lunch etc. I thought putting those incidents alongside 'traditional' sexual harassment cases was very clever. It said "It's not just builders who do this" and tackled the classist assumptions behind the sexist behaviour in society. It is not just a working class problem, it's everywhere. Obviously that went right over your head...

You have completely missed my point, and addressed only one of them. The least important might I add.

[blu tack]

The responses in this thread exactly reflect what the original writer of the blog is pointing out- why do we talk about the patriarchy and misogyny all the time? Because it still exists, and affects us every single day.

And yes, men, if you are not actively condemning this kind of behaviour when you come across it (i.e if you read this blog post and say 'but it's not aaaall men' or 'yeah but its not a big deal') then you are perpetuating street harassment and misogny in general. Congrats.

[Schmokie Dragon]

(Original post by RabbitCFH)
Only when it's hormonal anger.

You implied that she was being hormonal purely on the basis that she was saying something negative - purely on the basis that she was highlighting the inappropriate ways in which some members of society treat her and others like her. By saying that she 'sounds so PMS' you are using her physiology to negate her report. You are implying that if a woman gets upset, she's probably just at the whim of her hormones and thus her anger is not justified or worth paying attention

Quite aside from the fact that not all women experience PMS for a variety of reasons.

[DontJudge]

People are misunderstanding the purpose of Feminism.
Feminism existed because females were unequals of society.
The men used to gain more priorities/opportunities than the females, simply because they were men.
The feminists only wanted equal rights, which is fair enough.

But nowwwww, these radical feminists are crazy, they're wanting MORE power than men, and they somehow hate the male species. They are the reason as to why the normal ideology of 'feminism' contains such a negative connotation.

This is NOT feminism!

Spoiler:

Show

[RabbitCFH]

(Original post by Schmokie Dragon)
You implied that she was being hormonal purely on the basis that she was saying something negative - purely on the basis that she was highlighting the inappropriate ways in which some members of society treat her and others like her. By saying that she 'sounds so PMS' you are using her physiology to negate her report. You are implying that if a woman gets upset, she's probably just at the whim of her hormones and thus her anger is not justified or worth paying attention

Quite aside from the fact that not all women experience PMS for a variety of reasons.

I can't stand militant feminists like you. Call me unoriginal but:

[blu tack]

(Original post by doggyfizzel)
Feminism is about establishing a set of rights of equal standing for women. That includes political, economic and social rights for women.

That blog is in no way about rights, its about her experiences (some at the start her own fault) with individuals. It in no way addresses rights, it addresses some men's attitudes towards a certain women. Its about her negatives experiences with a few men. Its just a moan, about men objectifying women. She hasn't actually discussed why men objectify women? Why do men chase women? None of these have been discussed, its just a diary moaning about her negative experiences with men.

The bit at the bottom summarises it, she is assuming every man who sees her is looking at her as an object to ****, if that is her view of men, then yes its a man hating blog.

The post addresses why feminism is still important, which is an issue which feminists face daily ('you have the right to vote, whats the problem?' etc). She's highlighting street harassment etc and informing people that misogny still exists. For you to dismiss it as 'just a moan' is exactly why she needed to make this post. You, as a man, are saying her experiences aren't important. Maybe that's why sometimes feminists get frustrated and say that men in general are the problem- because the vast majority of men consciously or subconsciouly perpetuate sexist culture; just like you just did.

[blu tack]

(Original post by RabbitCFH)
I can't stand militant feminists like you. Call me unoriginal but:

There was absolutely nothing militant about what she said. Blaming hormones for women's (justified) anger at the patriarchy is a classic silencing technique. Basically- stop being sexist kthnx.

[RabbitCFH]

(Original post by blu tack)
There was absolutely nothing militant about what she said. Blaming hormones for women's (justified) anger at the patriarchy is a classic silencing technique. Basically- stop being sexist kthnx.

Ok, I promise I'll stop being sexist, period.

[doggyfizzel]

(Original post by blu tack)
The post addresses why feminism is still important, which is an issue which feminists face daily ('you have the right to vote, whats the problem?' etc). She's highlighting street harassment etc and informing people that misogny still exists. For you to dismiss it as 'just a moan' is exactly why she needed to make this post. You, as a man, are saying her experiences aren't important. Maybe that's why sometimes feminists get frustrated and say that men in general are the problem- because the vast majority of men consciously or subconsciouly perpetuate sexist culture; just like you just did.

Street harassment still exists? No ****. Of course it still exists, no one is claiming it doesn't exist. As someone said earlier "If anything I can assure you with 100% confidence that most girls from any country can relate". So if all women can relate to this, and its not a moan (ie: something we all know about and dislike but I though I'd inform you anyway) who is this directed at and for what purpose? If its not a moan it can only be directed at he uninformed. Unless she thinks the kind of guys who harass girls in the street are heading home to get their latest feminist blog fix, then she is either having whinge, or its aimed at men, any man. You all need to be informed.

[Schmokie Dragon]

(Original post by RabbitCFH)
I can't stand militant feminists like you. Call me unoriginal but:

Are you actually planning to engage rationally with what I said? Labeling me unfavourably and saying you 'can't stand' my kind (as you have categorised me) is just weak. If you have a reasonable response, I'd like to hear it.

So far your contribution to the thread has been to suggest that angry women are either 'so PMS' or 'mitant feminists'. Again, you have cast us off as people who shouldn't be listened to because we are either hormonal or radical/extreme (by-words for 'over the top'). Do you not see how reductive this is? How it negates the opinions and experiences of others in a flippant and oppressive way? I'm militant because I have the nerve to point this out? So what should I do? Carry on my merry way, refusing to combat oppression because I might tread on the toes of those who want to reduce me down to assumptions about my hormonal cycle?

[blu tack]

(Original post by doggyfizzel)
Street harassment still exists? No ****. Of course it still exists, no one is claiming it doesn't exist. As someone said earlier "If anything I can assure you with 100% confidence that most girls from any country can relate". So if all women can relate to this, and its not a moan (ie: something we all know about and dislike but I though I'd inform you anyway) who is this directed at and for what purpose? If its not a moan it can only be directed at he uninformed. Unless she thinks the kind of guys who harass girls in the street are heading home to get their latest feminist blog fix, then she is either having whinge, or its aimed at men, any man. You all need to be informed.

Yes, it's aimed at uninformed men, it says as much in the article. 'To my father, who said, “What white male privilege?” Who was not being ironic.' There are plenty of people who believe sexism is not a big thing any more. Just look at the title of the post 'For those who think I rant about the patriarchy and misogyny too much'.

I don't really get your point- should we not write about our experiences in order to inform others? How else to inform the uninformed if not to write about our experiences?

[Dragonfly07]

I like how every argument I had about feminism so far has resulted in my last post receiving an angry neg and no reply.