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    (Original post by Schmokie Dragon)
    Are you actually planning to engage rationally with what I said? Labeling me unfavourably and saying you 'can't stand' my kind (as you have categorised me) is just weak. If you have a reasonable response, I'd like to hear it.

    So far your contribution to the thread has been to suggest that angry women are either 'so PMS' or 'mitant feminists'. Again, you have cast us off as people who shouldn't be listened to because we are either hormonal or radical/extreme (by-words for 'over the top'). Do you not see how reductive this is? How it negates the opinions and experiences of others in a flippant and oppressive way? I'm militant because I have the nerve to point this out? So what should I do? Carry on my merry way, refusing to combat oppression because I might tread on the toes of those who want to reduce me down to assumptions about my hormonal cycle?
    tl;dr
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    (Original post by blu tack)
    Yes, it's aimed at uninformed men, it says as much in the article. 'To my father, who said, “What white male privilege?” Who was not being ironic.' There are plenty of people who believe sexism is not a big thing any more.

    I don't really get your point- should we not write about our experiences in order to inform others? How else to inform the uninformed if not to write about our experiences?
    So you think it is more productive to write about her father's views on a blog? She couldn't possible express them to him, far more productive to put it on a blog. Is her dad going to read her blog?

    That's what I'm talking about. Its aimed at uninformed men, yet look at the title of this thread, no one who is uninformed or believes it doesn't exist, or is just disinterested is going to be reading this. Is it that hard to understand? Its like putting a advert for swimming lessons in the middle of a pool. The people to whom it is relevant are never going to see it.
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    (Original post by doggyfizzel)
    So you think it is more productive to write about her father's views on a blog? She couldn't possible express them to him, far more productive to put it on a blog. Is her dad going to read her blog?

    That's what I'm talking about. Its aimed at uninformed men, yet look at the title of this thread, no one who is uninformed or believes it doesn't exist, or is just disinterested isn't going to be reading this. Is it that hard to understand? Its like putting a advert for swimming lessons in the middle of a pool. The people to whom it is relevant are never going to see it.
    Maybe she talked to her dad as well? She wrote it on her facebook- I think it's safe to assume that some of her facebook friends have complained that she rants about the patriarchy too much hence the note- why would you assume they wouldn't read it? People's opinions are open to change.
    I have plenty of friends who nominally believe in feminism but believe people talk about it too much or that feminism is going too far- these people would be informed by this post but at the same time would still read it because it's directly addressed to them. I read loads of stuff on the internet that I disagree with- sometimes it changes my mind and sometimes it doesn't- but the fact remains that i don't just read things that already conform to my world view, and neither does everyone else.

    Do you really think no-one should write anything like this? Bizarre.
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    (Original post by redferry)
    I think she was just venting her frustration on a point that Im sure the majority of women in this country can relate to.

    It started as a note on her fb. It struck a note with a lot of people so got shared by thousands. That isnt her blog.
    She was still generalising. I don't care if it was a blog or not. If you are trying to say that because it was on fb it was aimed at those people - I highly doubt she has any of them as friends so none of them read it.

    I'm not even saying what she wrote is bad or makes her a bad person - I'm just saying it comes across as very man-hating.
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    (Original post by blu tack)
    Do you really think no-one should write anything like this? Bizarre.
    I just think its a complete waste of time.

    In the same way I'm not going to write a blog about racism then inform my friends and random people, who I'm assuming are uninformed and the subject applies to them. I don't see any purpose, I'm either preaching to the choir or just guilt tripping people for others actions. Unlike you I don't see people as racist or perpetuating the problem due to inaction, I base them purely upon action.

    The final thing which is possible the most annoying about her personally is she's a hypocrite. In the first paragraph, the guy she is seeing (clearly a dick might I add) tells her his view on feminists, yet he still makes it to date 4 and 5. She feels so strongly she writes a blog for the world to read, yet doesn't even practise what she preaches when it comes to dating.
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    Very well written, I must say. But don't tar all men with the same brush, empty vessels make the most noise.

    It's a gender issue, sure, but the problem with naming it feminism is that it sets itself against all men, not just those who intimidate.

    Bear in mind too that meek males are also intimidated by this sort of person, it's just that it's not couched in sexuality. It is related to rape, but also to violence: it's about asserting dominance. Sexual assault; viol(ence).
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    Meh. One of my main problems with feminism, is the lack of empirical research attached to it. It just ends up with a load of women talking **** that sounds correct like "rape jokes normalize rape"* or "pornography lowers women's worth".

    * "Contrary to intuition and speculation by laypeople, humor theorists, and other social scientists, recent empirical studies have not found evidence that exposure to disparagement humor affects either the accessibility or evaluative content of the recipient's stereotypes or attitudes toward the targeted group. It does not appear that exposure to disparagement humor reinforces negative images of the targeted group (Ford et al., 2001; Olson et. al., 1999)." http://www.d.umn.edu/cla/faculty/jha...nsequences.pdf

    And that's one of the problems, just because something sounds logical or sounds intuitively true doesn't make it so. Same with white privilege. Does it exist? Probably. However, exactly where it's applied is hard to determine. Statistics about white people given less time for similar offenses don't prove institutional racism in the justice system. What were the different economic situations between the black and white guys? What about gang affiliations? Education? Parents? etc etc. All these are important factors that need to be answered. Same with employment. I'm reading the wikilink about the fact that blacks with similar schools and skills had a harder time than whites yet the author of the study acknowledges that social networking played a big part yet attributed it to racism? Da ***? Isn't that more of a socioeconomic disadvantage (possibly not even that)? Did the black man social network as much as the white man? As I said, I don't dispute that there exists white privilege because racists do exist but it need empirical backing for it to be taken seriously.

    As to this blog in particular, not much to say. It's Paris, Paris is notorious for such a thing. Also, "But also to the French friend who blamed my problems with French men on my university in the northern suburbs, a Parisian synonym for emeutes, gang violence, and immigration. Who insisted that if he brought me to his upper-crust private (white) university—where the French elite reproduces itself into perpetuity—I would meet nicer French guys. Who forced me to defend the men who’d harassed me against his barely-veiled, racist critique." wow. Her friend could have had a point, such behavior is more prone in lower socioeconomic neighborhoods. She doesn't seem to know Paris very much and is being very defense. It isn't racist.
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    And people still wonder why feminism today isn't taken seriously....
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    (Original post by danny111)
    She was still generalising. I don't care if it was a blog or not. If you are trying to say that because it was on fb it was aimed at those people - I highly doubt she has any of them as friends so none of them read it.

    I'm not even saying what she wrote is bad or makes her a bad person - I'm just saying it comes across as very man-hating.
    I still don't see how she was generalising to all men in any way.

    Well all I would say is I could relate one hell of a lot to what she was saying, yet the vast majority of my friends are male and I wouldn't say I was in any way man hating

    (Original post by MancStudent098)
    Can a majority of women relate to her position? She seems, in a two month period in Paris, to have been sexually harassed by pretty much everyone she's met. I just don't think that for most women in, say, the UK, life is the kind of unrelenting siege of testosterone driven behaviour that she describes.
    How is 8 people everyone she has met in any way???

    Well all I can say is I can, and I'm sure all my friends can to. Surprisingly enough we all live in the UK. We get this sort of behaviour off men all the time. I would say personally it happens to me about once every couple of weeks.
    Even the responses on this thread have just echoed what she is talking about.
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    I just read it, and most girls can identify with it. I have to add it's not just in certain 'bad' areas where this happen. There is nothing I hate more than strange men trying to get your attention in the street like that.
    And to those who say it's Paris - no it's not. I've lived in more upscale areas of Paris, so sure I've experienced less of that. You go to Greece or Turkey, it'll be ten times worse. You can experience uncomfortable wolf-whistling, harassment and all that stuff in any city.
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    (Original post by Aconcernedparent)
    I just read it, and most girls can identify with it. I have to add it's not just in certain 'bad' areas where this happen. There is nothing I hate more than strange men trying to get your attention in the street like that.
    And to those who say it's Paris - no it's not. I've lived in more upscale areas of Paris, so sure I've experienced less of that. You go to Greece or Turkey, it'll be ten times worse. You can experience uncomfortable wolf-whistling, harassment and all that stuff in any city.
    Oh I'm sorry, brb, rewiring the entire male sex of the human species.
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    Not this again. Stop trying to guilt-trip me for being a guy. You're not advancing your cause in this manner by generalising and claiming all men are like this. We're not.
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    (Original post by Spontogical)
    And people still wonder why feminism today isn't taken seriously....
    This.

    I believe in equality for everyone regardless of race/bits between your legs/who you like to kiss but articles like this make it really hard for me to still support the feminist movement. Demonising all men is detrimental to their cause.
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    To the woman who ranted on Facebook about the injustices perpetrated against her by males: Tape up your vagina and go cry some more?

    + shades of Samantha Brick :rolleyes:

    Yes men can be silly/bothersome when you're a woman but this is OTT

    Most attractive women revel, at least in part, and often play upon their sexuality/sex appeal.. lettuce be super cereal
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    Okay can someone point out where she generalised all men? I've looked and I honestly can't find it.

    Even so, it's interesting how your first reaction to a nasty experience that almost all women can relate to is to make it about yourselves, rather than villify the men who actually do do this.
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    (Original post by Foo.mp3)

    To the woman who ranted on Facebook about the injustices perpetrated against her by males: Tape up your vagina and go cry some more?

    + shades of Samantha Brick :rolleyes:

    Yes men can be silly/bothersome when you're a woman but this is OTT
    Most attractive women revel, at least in part, and often play upon their sexuality/sex appeal..lettuce be super cereal
    You may not be able to relate, but it can be pretty frightening sometimes. What do emarks like the italicized really accomplish? You may not agree with her, you don't have to, but don't try to brush off her argument like that if you can't think of an intelligent response.

    Samantha Brick? She isn't saying that everyone fancies her or is jealous of her, so how is that relevant?

    So because some women choose (key-word) to flirt or whatever and use their sex appeal to their advantage, all women deserve to be sexually harassed whether they appreciate that attention or not?

    (Original post by JackG1)
    Demonising all men is detrimental to their cause.
    Not this again. Stop trying to guilt-trip me for being a guy. You're not advancing your cause in this manner by generalising and claiming all men are like this. We're not.
    Please explain how she is generalising and demonising all men by describing her experiences with a handful of men.

    (Original post by thetobbit)
    Oh I'm sorry, brb, rewiring the entire male sex of the human species.
    Are men "wired" to make advances at women even if they can clearly see that it makes them uncomfortable? Are men really unable to control themselves around women? Bit of a generalisation, isn't it, not to mention demeaning to all men.
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    (Original post by blu tack)
    Okay can someone point out where she generalised all men? I've looked and I honestly can't find it.

    Even so, it's interesting how your first reaction to a nasty experience that almost all women can relate to is to make it about yourselves, rather than villify the men who actually do do this.
    It is because she doesn't. I've no idea where these guys have plucked that from.

    as for the last bit, never has a truer word been spoken
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    (Original post by Philbert)
    So because some women choose (key-word) to flirt or whatever and use their sex appeal to their advantage, all women deserve to be sexually harassed whether they appreciate that attention or not?
    One reason many find feminists hard to talk to: (emotionality) ~ misrepresentation and hyperbolism. Who said anything about what women "deserve"?

    (Original post by Philbert)
    Please explain how she is generalising and demonising all men by describing her experiences with a handful of men
    See above

    (Original post by Philbert)
    Are men "wired" to make advances at women even if they can clearly see that it makes them uncomfortable?
    To an extent yes, how do you think we behaved before social conventions were formalised? What do we observe in primate colonies?

    I'm not for a moment defending making women feel uncomfortable btw, but this idea that we have transcended our own biology/animalism is frankly laughable, as any 'red blooded' male, who is subject to related urges, will tell you. Some men actually believe they're making a girl feel good about themselves when to others it's pretty clear they're having the opposite effect

    (Original post by Philbert)
    Are men really unable to control themselves around women?
    I can't comment for all men but I'd have thought the vast majority are capable of 'taming the beast' aye

    Don't get me wrong, awareness raising has its merits but methinks mildly offensive ad campaigns are probably more efficacious than such fb rants :holmes:
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    Where the freak are you guys reading that she generalized all men? Come on, if your going to criticize feminism do it properly and not under the guise of oh, feminism is bull****, man-hating ideology" or at least back up your assertions.

    (Original post by Aconcernedparent)
    I just read it, and most girls can identify with it. I have to add it's not just in certain 'bad' areas where this happen. There is nothing I hate more than strange men trying to get your attention in the street like that.
    And to those who say it's Paris - no it's not. I've lived in more upscale areas of Paris, so sure I've experienced less of that. You go to Greece or Turkey, it'll be ten times worse. You can experience uncomfortable wolf-whistling, harassment and all that stuff in any city.
    It does increase in the bad areas, you're also not factoring the culture of the French immigrants which is mostly a very sexist culture. And I know that Turkey has a bigger problem but that still doesn't mean Paris doesn't.
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    (Original post by blackgold)
    **** this feminist man hating bull****. "he touched my earrings" ohhh no
    if a random man came up to you and touched your ears, or your hair or worse, or made lewd remarks to you, and this happened on a weekly basis, you honestly wouldn't care?

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