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Factorising

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Reply 60
hassi94
With those, I think you just have to 'see' it. Maybe someone has a better method (EDIT: Turns out Maths12345 does ), but if you can't see it then I'd just complete the square.

Original post by Math12345
First thing to always check is if you can simplify the equation. In this case you can't.

16x^2+16x-45

The product is a*c: 16*-45=-720
The sum is b: +16

What 2 numbers give a product of -720 and a sum of +16?

36 and -20.


Now split the b term into this: (you should put it in a order, so you can factorise e.g. 16 and 36 (have 4 in common) and 20 and 45 (have 5 in common).

16x^2+36x-20x-45

Factorise :biggrin:


4x(4x+9)-5(4x+9)

Common factor?

(4x+9)

Next bracket is the bits left over.

(4x-5)

Answer:

(4x+9)(4x-5)

Thanks to you both for the help. :smile:

The bolded bit is the main problem I have so I guess hassi94 is, sadly :frown:, right.

Do you guys have any ideas on how to improve on coming up with the two required numbers? Do I just need to get more a feel for advanced times tables?! Can't say I want to learn everything up to and including 36x36 just in case things like this come up. Would you halve 720 to see that it's 36x10 and then just 'see' that 36 and 20 are right?

Hopefully nothing too ridiculous comes up in the actual exam. This is frustrating. :frown:
Original post by Ronove
Thanks to you both for the help. :smile:

The bolded bit is the main problem I have so I guess hassi94 is, sadly :frown:, right.

Do you guys have any ideas on how to improve on coming up with the two required numbers? Do I just need to get more a feel for advanced times tables?! Can't say I want to learn everything up to and including 36x36 just in case things like this come up. Would you halve 720 to see that it's 36x10 and then just 'see' that 36 and 20 are right?

Hopefully nothing too ridiculous comes up in the actual exam. This is frustrating. :frown:


If you have a calculator then you have less of a problem. They usually never give questions with difficult products/sums, so don't worry too much. You could use the quadratic formula or complete the square instead. Pm me if you need more help.
Original post by Ronove
Thanks to you both for the help. :smile:

The bolded bit is the main problem I have so I guess hassi94 is, sadly :frown:, right.

Do you guys have any ideas on how to improve on coming up with the two required numbers? Do I just need to get more a feel for advanced times tables?! Can't say I want to learn everything up to and including 36x36 just in case things like this come up. Would you halve 720 to see that it's 36x10 and then just 'see' that 36 and 20 are right?

Hopefully nothing too ridiculous comes up in the actual exam. This is frustrating. :frown:


The only sure fire way of getting the solution is by doing it algebraically (e.g. a+b=16, ab=-720 and solve simultaneously) but this will just end up with another quadratic that would probably be no easier to solve :tongue:

I do highly recommend just completing the square if you get stuck (or even the quadratic formula - but completing the square will more often come up handy in future mathematics I think), there's very little in the way of having to 'spot' anything - you just do it :smile:
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by Pheylan
If you had y+3y2y+3y^2 instead, would you be able to see what to do?


Your pictures are most amusing. I am amused.
Reply 64
Original post by hassi94
The only sure fire way of getting the solution is by doing it algebraically (e.g. a+b=16, ab=-720 and solve simultaneously) but this will just end up with another quadratic that would probably be no easier to solve :tongue:

I do highly recommend just completing the square if you get stuck (or even the quadratic formula - but completing the square will more often come up handy in future mathematics I think), there's very little in the way of having to 'spot' anything - you just do it :smile:

But resorting to completing the square or using the quadratic formula is tantamount to admitting defeat! :nooo: :biggrin:
Original post by Ronove
But resorting to completing the square or using the quadratic formula is tantamount to admitting defeat! :nooo: :biggrin:


Haha well the most I can say then is just get used to it; practice several questions.

27x^2 + 15x - 22 = 0

Factorise that for fun! :tongue:
Reply 66
Original post by hassi94
Haha well the most I can say then is just get used to it; practice several questions.

27x^2 + 15x - 22 = 0

Factorise that for fun! :tongue:

Took like 3-4 mins of checking numbers on the calc but I did it!

Spoiler



Any more tricky ones so I can practise and ask you if I get stuck? :p:
Original post by Ronove
Took like 3-4 mins of checking numbers on the calc but I did it!

Spoiler



Any more tricky ones so I can practise and ask you if I get stuck? :p:


Aha well done :smile:

Erm I guess I could make up a few :tongue:

28x^2 + 107x + 52

8x^2 + 15x + 7

24x^2 - 38x - 77

3x^2 + 23x + 40


I think they are all factorisable :tongue: Don't have much time to check right now :tongue:
Reply 68
Original post by Ronove
Took like 3-4 mins of checking numbers on the calc but I did it!

Spoiler



Any more tricky ones so I can practise and ask you if I get stuck? :p:


Actually it doesn't takes so much time to solve it.

Here's how i approach such questions:
27x2+15x22=0 27x^2+15x-22=0

27×22=594 27 \times 22= 594

2594329739933 \begin{array}{c|c} 2 & 594 \\ \hline 3 & 297 \\ \hline 3 & 99 \\ \hline & 33 \end{array}

So we can notice that, 3×3×2×33=594  and  33(3×3×2)=3318=15 3 \times 3 \times 2 \times 33 = 594 \ \ and \ \ 33-(3 \times 3 \times 2)=33-18=15

So
27x2+15x22=0    27x2+33x18x22=0    3x(9x+11)2(9x+11)=0    (3x2)(9x+11)=0 27x^2+15x-22=0 \implies 27x^2+33x-18x-22=0 \\ \implies 3x(9x+11)-2(9x+11)=0 \implies (3x-2)(9x+11)=0
Reply 69
Original post by raheem94
Actually it doesn't takes so much time to solve it.

Here's how i approach such questions:
27x2+15x22=0 27x^2+15x-22=0

27×22=594 27 \times 22= 594

2594329739933 \begin{array}{c|c} 2 & 594 \\ \hline 3 & 297 \\ \hline 3 & 99 \\ \hline & 33 \end{array}

So we can notice that, 3×3×2×33=594  and  33(3×3×2)=3318=15 3 \times 3 \times 2 \times 33 = 594 \ \ and \ \ 33-(3 \times 3 \times 2)=33-18=15

So
27x2+15x22=0    27x2+33x18x22=0    3x(9x+11)2(9x+11)=0    (3x2)(9x+11)=0 27x^2+15x-22=0 \implies 27x^2+33x-18x-22=0 \\ \implies 3x(9x+11)-2(9x+11)=0 \implies (3x-2)(9x+11)=0

Looks like a really good method. Will definitely try it that way when practising and see how it goes. :smile:
Reply 70
Original post by Ronove
Looks like a really good method. Will definitely try it that way when practising and see how it goes. :smile:


This is the best method in my opinion, i always use it. It is quite faster and does gives an answer if the expression is factorisable. By other ways it is too difficult to ensure that can the expression be factorised or not.
Original post by raheem94
This is the best method in my opinion, i always use it. It is quite faster and does gives an answer if the expression is factorisable. By other ways it is too difficult to ensure that can the expression be factorised or not.


Seems like too much work to me haha :tongue: I've never used any 'method' except just 'by inspection'.
Reply 72
Original post by hassi94
Seems like too much work to me haha :tongue: I've never used any 'method' except just 'by inspection'.


Try it, it is very quick.

It looks too much work, because for showing the method i had to do long working which i normally wouldn't do.
Original post by raheem94
Try it, it is very quick.

It looks too much work, because for showing the method i had to do long working which i normally wouldn't do.


If a quadratic ever comes up that I feel I need it for I might do so; but that seems even more unlikely considering I've basically finished A-level Maths/Further (only M2 left and that won't have any in :tongue:) - and they don't bother throwing big numbers at you for no real reason at uni/STEP :smile:
Reply 74
Original post by hassi94
If a quadratic ever comes up that I feel I need it for I might do so; but that seems even more unlikely considering I've basically finished A-level Maths/Further (only M2 left and that won't have any in :tongue:) - and they don't bother throwing big numbers at you for no real reason at uni/STEP :smile:


How's your STEP preparation going?

Is STEP very hard?
Original post by raheem94
How's your STEP preparation going?

Is STEP very hard?


It's getting better - I'm feeling a lot more confident and if I improve my question-picking I'm pretty confident on getting my grade in STEP II at least. STEP III I've still got a fair bit to go but I'm not doing bad at all.

It is quite difficult but it just takes a lot of perseverance I think. Obviously not just anyone can persevere and be successful but if you have some problem-solving ability (which you do) then it definitely is possible with practice. I've been doing questions several times per week since January and only just now feel that I'm starting to crack it (with help from the STEP easter school) :tongue:
Reply 76
Original post by hassi94
It's getting better - I'm feeling a lot more confident and if I improve my question-picking I'm pretty confident on getting my grade in STEP II at least. STEP III I've still got a fair bit to go but I'm not doing bad at all.

It is quite difficult but it just takes a lot of perseverance I think. Obviously not just anyone can persevere and be successful but if you have some problem-solving ability (which you do) then it definitely is possible with practice. I've been doing questions several times per week since January and only just now feel that I'm starting to crack it (with help from the STEP easter school) :tongue:


Good luck :smile:
Reply 77
I have finally understood the question that I was struggling on. Thanks guys.

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