[umop apisdn]

Just curious what your thoughts are on this - as the 'average' of society, and even as a student, do we owe poor people anything? Should we bail them out due to human kindness? Or is it survival of the capitalistic fittest?

Also, what would you do if you were approached quite frequently by aggressive and rude homeless people demanding money?

[Hearty_Beast]

Owe? No.

Should we do as we would like to have done to us if we in their situation? I think so... It's an unfair world, and (not that its our fault) it may not be their fault that they are where they are. We should do what we can to help those worse off than ourselves.

On the subject of people illegally begging/demanding money? I wouldn't give in to it, otherwise you're just encouraging muggings.

Buy the big issue, or donate to charities/organisations that provide jobs and support.

Moving on from that, we (the rich north/west in general) should give similar support to developing nations and people in far worse poverty across the globe.

[cl_steele]

personally i take offence and being pestered by homeless people for money especially the big issue sellers who try and corner you for it.. i have no particular desire to give them money to buy booze/fags/crack.

as for whether we owe the poor anything? depends how you look at it ... theyre just as much british as we are and as such are entitled to a certain standard of living which and due to as you said our human kindness we should help them with that.
on the other hand if you look purely at the figures we owe them diddly squat ... its the middle and upper classes who contribute the vast bulk of the money to the governments coffers not the poor so we are already subsidising their health, social care, housing etc. so logically they owe us..

seems my comment is somewhat controversial

[screenager2004]

Poor people and homeless people are two different things - homeless people need assistance for medical and psychological reasons, they need social services and rehabilitation programmes. Not just financial assistance. Just being poor by itself doesn't make you homeless.

As for people who aren't social outcasts, but are financially very disadvantaged - yes we owe them everything. We are part of the system that has forced them into such miserable conditions, and if you can't be philanthropic, then basically you aren't a human being.

[Spontogical]

(Original post by screenager2004)
Poor people and homeless people are two different things - homeless people need assistance for medical and psychological reasons, they need social services and rehabilitation programmes. Not just financial assistance. Just being poor by itself doesn't make you homeless.

As for people who aren't social outcasts, but are financially very disadvantaged - yes we owe them everything. We are part of the system that has forced them into such miserable conditions, and if you can't be philanthropic, then basically you aren't a human being.

That's 90%+ of people then.

[Drunk Punx]

"You" don't owe us ****.

(Original post by cl_steele)
its the middle and upper classes who contribute the vast bulk of the money to the governments coffers not the poor so we are already subsidising their health, social care, housing etc. so logically they owe us..

Logic dictates that if you earn more, you should be taxed more, and seeing as it's all going toward the upkeep of the country, nobody owes anybody anything concerning social classing in this context.
The Tories, on the other hand, seem to think otherwise (in recent months they've lowered the tax thingy for high earners whilst raising it for low income families, which, to be honest, is hardly surprising of the pricks).

By the way, everyone has to pay taxes. By the way you worded it, it sounded like only the middle-class and above pay tax towards social housing, etc
You think you're the only one who gets pissed off about having your tax money used to fund some jerkoffs beer and Xbox money because they don't want to get a job (before anyone gets the arse [and I know some of you will], look at the wording of that; "because they don't want to get a job". Implication being that that statement is directed towards people who are too lazy to actually bother looking for work, not those who actively look for work yet have to suffer the trials and tribulations of the welfare system due to a lack of jobs)? Think again.

[Bobifier]

(Original post by umop apisdn)
Just curious what your thoughts are on this - as the 'average' of society, and even as a student, do we owe poor people anything? Should we bail them out due to human kindness? Or is it survival of the capitalistic fittest?

Also, what would you do if you were approached quite frequently by aggressive and rude homeless people demanding money?

This idea is almost always equivalent to survival of those with the richest parents. Everyone deserves to start out with the same opportunities.

[Barden]

(Original post by cl_steele)
on the other hand if you look purely at the figures we owe them diddly squat ... its the middle and upper classes who contribute the vast bulk of the money to the governments coffers not the poor so we are already subsidising their health, social care, housing etc. so logically they owe us..

and how exactly would this country function without a working class?

if there was nobody performing manual labour, there would be no money further up the chain

you can't sell timber if there's nobody cutting down trees

[MasterPotatoHead]

Aggressive and rude homeless people demanding money? You probably only see them as rude since you're unwilling to give, whether they ask or not.

[JordanS94]

tbh I think we do If there was no poor people who would be willing to take up the jobs in the shops etc the richer community moves our community forward whilst the poor keep it in balance and from going to ****. But like the poor ones who just sit at home all day and do nothing (excluding being a full-time parent) we should just **** all over them.

[Beethoven]

Yes, the world is unfair but I don't see how is it my responsibility to go and fix it.

[JordanS94]

(Original post by MasterPotatoHead)
Aggressive and rude homeless people demanding money? You probably only see them as rude since you're unwilling to give, whether they ask or not.

you don't have to be homeless to be poor

[screenager2004]

(Original post by Spontogical)
That's 90%+ of people then.

Dunno what circles you hang out in mate, most of my friends donate to charities. (58% of the UK population regularly donates to a charity)

Maybe you and your friends just happen to be extra-tight compared to the average.

[Spontogical]

(Original post by screenager2004)
Dunno what circles you hang out in mate, most of my friends donate to charities. (58% of the UK population regularly donates to a charity)

Maybe you and your friends just happen to be extra-tight compared to the average.

I wasn't referring to myself either. 58% isn't that a little small?

A lot of people also do things based on fear of having bad conscience later.. rather then because they actually want to.

Basically, people are selfish in general.

[MasterPotatoHead]

(Original post by JordanS94)
you don't have to be homeless to be poor

I didn't say you have to be....

[Nephilim]

We don't owe people anything; but we should help them out, because we would want help if we were in their shoes.

[SpicyStrawberry]

It depends on what you mean by poor people, if you mean the homeless then there's usually a reason why they got themselves into that position but I don't think it is doing anyone any favours keeping them on the street and not giving them the chance to find work or a home. I don't believe society owes anything to people who aren't willing to help themselves, but many homeless people do want to better themselves which is why if I pass a homeless person in the street on a cold day I'll buy them a coffee to keep warm.

[Pawsies]

At the end of the day 'poor' people tend to do the menial jobs however without these a company would collapse so we should definitely respect them

Plus in this climate anyone can become poor

[AdamskiUK]

Looking at it from a sensible point of view, survival of the fittest is how the world has worked since the beginning. All aggressive demands of money are are taxes. If you don't pay, there can be serious consequences, including hefty jail sentences. That's quite aggressive. It's theft.

[bordercollies10]

It depends on the moral circumstances of the person with the relatively large amount of wealth. What influences their moral dominion the most (love, survival, desire, empathy etc...)? It is true that the money used to buy the car for little sixteen year old Stacey (I'm not using verbatim names, but this is anecdotal!) could of been used to save the lives of four or five sixteen year old girls in a developing country (such as Mexico or Honduras as the medical professionals would need to be offered an incentive/money to pay for medical instruments) - but the aforementioned parents could justify their choice to others (what others think of you can, in turn, influence your capitalistic position in society) by stating that they pay their taxes, work hard for their money, donate some money to charity or that Stacey needs that car in order to be "independent" (although the train would suffice for getting her to University as she is perfectly able).
In a way, it is about perspective. Sure money has its uses (the United Kingdom wouldn't be with services such as cinemas, airports, shops etc... without money being offered as an reward for the work involved in establishing such) and it would be very difficult for one to build a house, produce medication, grow food and fetch water without the help of another person...