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God can righteously forgive sin

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    Many ask why did Jesus have to go to the cross, in order for our sins to be forgiven? Why didn't God just forgive our sins without sending Jesus? The answer is God cannot overlook crime. No judge on this earth would hold his job very long, if he simply dismissed every criminal case that falls on his desk. (Unless that court is corrupt) Crime must be punished.



    Now, God is the most powerful being in the universe. He has power that goes beyond our understanding. He did create the cosmos after all. (and that was just a hint of His power) He literally took our sin, and placed it on His Son at the cross. That Jesus literally became our sin, as though He actually did our crime. God then punished the crime (as any good judge will do with crime) on Jesus. So when we receive Jesus into our hearts, what literally happens is our crimes are transferred onto Jesus being, and His righteousness is transferred onto our being. The crime is punished on Jesus, and we receive all His blessings and innonence.




    Now God can righteously look at us, and say we are perfect. Because we are perfect in His Son. Everytime He sees us, He sees His beloved Son. (and so, we are His beloved children)
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    Also many people contemplate whether God and Jesus are real! I personally believe Jesus was a public speaker, but I don't believe in the bible or god
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    Can God forgive atheists?
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    (Original post by Joeyboy 12)
    Also many people contemplate whether God and Jesus are real! I personally believe Jesus was a public speaker, but I don't believe in the bible or god
    If you see Jesus as simply a public speaker, then may I ask what you think if his public speeches? What about the many public speeches where He presented himself as the Son of God, the Christ (God's special king who came to sort out sin, our rebellion against him) and that He is the only way to be friends with God and that actually, He was God Himself? Also, what has made you reject the Bible, if you don't mind me asking? Thanks
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    (Original post by tomclarky)
    Can God forgive atheists?
    The Bible tells us no. The Bible certainly teaches that God's forgiveness is available for all people from all backgrounds and cultures, but that the only way to be saved is through Jesus Christ's sacrifice on our behalf, taking the punishment for our rebellion against Him in our place through dying on the cross. The Bible says that if we reject Christ's salvation, we can't be friends with God. So although forgiveness is freely available, we need to trust in Christ in order to be forgiven- thus people who don't accept that forgiveness cannot be forgiven.
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    (Original post by jmj)
    The Bible tells us no. The Bible certainly teaches that God's forgiveness is available for all people from all backgrounds and cultures, but that the only way to be saved is through Jesus Christ's sacrifice on our behalf, taking the punishment for our rebellion against Him in our place through dying on the cross. The Bible says that if we reject Christ's salvation, we can't be friends with God. So although forgiveness is freely available, we need to trust in Christ in order to be forgiven- thus people who don't accept that forgiveness cannot be forgiven.
    What about if someone believes in Jesus Christ's salvation but still goes ahead and commits rape, murder, robbery and pedophilia. Will that person be able to go to Heaven?
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    (Original post by jmj)
    The Bible tells us no. The Bible certainly teaches that God's forgiveness is available for all people from all backgrounds and cultures, but that the only way to be saved is through Jesus Christ's sacrifice on our behalf, taking the punishment for our rebellion against Him in our place through dying on the cross. The Bible says that if we reject Christ's salvation, we can't be friends with God. So although forgiveness is freely available, we need to trust in Christ in order to be forgiven- thus people who don't accept that forgiveness cannot be forgiven.
    So are we destined for hell if reject Christ's salvation? Even if we are otherwise good people?
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    (Original post by Bishy786)
    What about if someone believes in Jesus Christ's salvation but still goes ahead and commits rape, murder, robbery and pedophilia. Will that person be able to go to Heaven?
    Excellent question The Bible teaches that all a person can't do anything to be saved, they simply have to trust in Jesus' death on their behalf- but the Bible also teaches that we must repent, which means to turn away from living our lives in rebellion against God and turn towards Him instead. Repentance means living in response to what Jesus has done for you- so it's not just a free ticket into heaven no matter what you do afterwards. The Bible teaches that we should see a difference in the lives of Christians because of how God has changed them. Obviously Christians will still rebel against God, but Christians are to fight against that rebellion and to try to live with God as their King instead- so for the person in your example, their actions demonstrate an unrepentant life so they probably haven't put their trust in Jesus.
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    (Original post by tomclarky)
    So are we destined for hell if reject Christ's salvation? Even if we are otherwise good people?
    Yes- the Bible actually says nobody is good enough for God and none of us can be friends with Him (we're all rubbish because of our rebellion against Him) apart from trusting in Jesus' death on the cross on our behalf, taking the punishment for our rebellion against God in our place.
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    Imagine a judge killing his own son in order to forgive some random murderer's crime. He'd be a ****ing awesome dude.
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    (Original post by jmj)
    The Bible tells us no. The Bible certainly teaches that God's forgiveness is available for all people from all backgrounds and cultures, but that the only way to be saved is through Jesus Christ's sacrifice on our behalf, taking the punishment for our rebellion against Him in our place through dying on the cross. The Bible says that if we reject Christ's salvation, we can't be friends with God. So although forgiveness is freely available, we need to trust in Christ in order to be forgiven- thus people who don't accept that forgiveness cannot be forgiven.
    Believing in jesus isn't equivalent to accepting it's forgiveness. I will gladly accept the forgiveness but I don't believe that it exists.

    Also, I don't believe in passing blame onto someone else for something I did. Jesus is taking the responsibility for your actions away from you? That's immoral.
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    (Original post by jmj)
    what has made you reject the Bible, if you don't mind me asking?
    What has made you accept the Bible, if you don't mind me asking? Rather than any of the other myriad of religious texts out there, or indeed, none at all?
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    (Original post by jmj)
    Yes- the Bible actually says nobody is good enough for God and none of us can be friends with Him (we're all rubbish because of our rebellion against Him) apart from trusting in Jesus' death on the cross on our behalf, taking the punishment for our rebellion against God in our place.
    Doesn't that seem terribly unfair? God supposedly creates us with free will and then punishes us for not believing in him? Even if i'm the most compassionate, charitable person, i'm still going to hell?
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    (Original post by Okashira)
    Many ask why did Jesus have to go to the cross, in order for our sins to be forgiven? Why didn't God just forgive our sins without sending Jesus? The answer is God cannot overlook crime. No judge on this earth would hold his job very long, if he simply dismissed every criminal case that falls on his desk. (Unless that court is corrupt) Crime must be punished.



    Now, God is the most powerful being in the universe. He has power that goes beyond our understanding. He did create the cosmos after all. (and that was just a hint of His power) He literally took our sin, and placed it on His Son at the cross. That Jesus literally became our sin, as though He actually did our crime. God then punished the crime (as any good judge will do with crime) on Jesus. So when we receive Jesus into our hearts, what literally happens is our crimes are transferred onto Jesus being, and His righteousness is transferred onto our being. The crime is punished on Jesus, and we receive all His blessings and innonence.




    Now God can righteously look at us, and say we are perfect. Because we are perfect in His Son. Everytime He sees us, He sees His beloved Son. (and so, we are His beloved children)
    You have explained your faith in your god, and your love for Jesus Christ to me very clearly and logically in a way which I understand. Which is something that I have never been able to say before. So for that I applaud you.

    However, I still do not share your beliefs or your faith.

    Which I suppose makes me no better than the worst of humanity and I will share a place in hell with all the rapists/murderers/politicians/paedophiles and general genocidal maniacs?

    There is my first main issue (1 of 2) with Christianity.
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    (Original post by Agrippa)
    What has made you accept the Bible, if you don't mind me asking? Rather than any of the other myriad of religious texts out there, or indeed, none at all?
    Not at all Simply because I found the evidence of the Bible astounding (in terms of manuscript evidence and in terms of the translation process) the Bible makes the claim that it's the Word of God and I believe it overwhelmingly backs up that claim.
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    (Original post by jmj)
    Excellent question The Bible teaches that all a person can't do anything to be saved, they simply have to trust in Jesus' death on their behalf- but the Bible also teaches that we must repent, which means to turn away from living our lives in rebellion against God and turn towards Him instead. Repentance means living in response to what Jesus has done for you- so it's not just a free ticket into heaven no matter what you do afterwards. The Bible teaches that we should see a difference in the lives of Christians because of how God has changed them. Obviously Christians will still rebel against God, but Christians are to fight against that rebellion and to try to live with God as their King instead- so for the person in your example, their actions demonstrate an unrepentant life so they probably haven't put their trust in Jesus.
    And if the person really tries to repel the "rebellion" but still manages to commit atrocious crimes, would he still go to Heaven?

    Also,

    (1) Why did Jesus need to "die" for our sins?

    (2) What happens to people who died BEFORE Jesus came?

    (3) Can a God "die"?
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    (Original post by tomclarky)
    Doesn't that seem terribly unfair? God supposedly creates us with free will and then punishes us for not believing in him? Even if i'm the most compassionate, charitable person, i'm still going to hell?
    I don't think it seems unfair at all, because we're all guilty of rebellion against God- we've all shoved up two fingers at Him at our creator. We can do all the good stuff we want and try to be as nice as possible- but we're still guilty of that rebellion against God and the punishment of that is still death and hell, nothing can get us out of that apart from the salvation offered in Jesus on the cross.
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    (Original post by jmj)
    I don't think it seems unfair at all, because we're all guilty of rebellion against God- we've all shoved up two fingers at Him at our creator. We can do all the good stuff we want and try to be as nice as possible- but we're still guilty of that rebellion against God and the punishment of that is still death and hell, nothing can get us out of that apart from the salvation offered in Jesus on the cross.
    What about people who live in very remote areas of the world, who have never been exposed to the idea of religion, let alone christianity?
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    (Original post by Bishy786)
    And if the person really tries to repel the "rebellion" but still manages to commit atrocious crimes, would he still go to Heaven?
    It would depend on the individual circumstances because Christians are called to fight rebellion against God. However Christians can do pretty awful things because we're still humans and therefore can still mess up pretty badly. The power of the cross is that anybody, no matter what we've done, can find forgiveness in Jesus- that's how much God loves us.


    (Original post by Bishy786)
    (1) Why did Jesus need to "die" for our sins?
    Because the punishment for our sin (rebellion against God) is death- not just death but eternal judgement. God shows how much He loves us in that He sent Jesus to take that punishment on our behalf and in our place (therefore dying on the cross). I guess in a certain sense, Jesus didn't 'need' to at all, God would've been completely within His rights to leave us facing judegment and death for our rebellion against Him. But God shows His goodness and love in sending Jesus to take the punishment in our place so we could be forgiven and be friends with God.

    (Original post by Bishy786)
    (2) What happens to people who died BEFORE Jesus came?
    The Old Testament describes people before Jesus as 'justified by faith' right in the beginning of the bible, pretty much as soon as Adam and Eve had rebelled against God, God would send a Messiah (God's special King who would come and sort out the problem of their sin) so a person could be friends with God by trusting that God would save them.

    (Original post by Bishy786)
    (3) Can a God "die"?
    Good question- I don't think it's possible to understand fully what happened (because we're not God) but the bible teaches that Jesus has a human nature and a divine nature (He is God in human form). The bible says his human nature definitely died and then His divine nature was then able to raise Himself from the dead.
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    (Original post by tomclarky)
    What about people who live in very remote areas of the world, who have never been exposed to the idea of religion, let alone christianity?
    The Bible doesn't specifically talk about people who've never heard about Jesus, so I have to say I don't know because the Bible doesn't say one way or the other- but I believe that God is a good and just judge, so I trust He knows what He is doing regarding those people

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