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Ivy league or LSE for law

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    if anyone can give some advice I would be grateful!

    I have offers from LSE for law or from UPENN (university of pennsylvania, Ivy league); I think I would prefer to go to Penn (for the breadth of education, experience etc) but my long-term goal is to secure a training contract with a magic circle firm; will i be disadvantaging myself by choosing not to study law here?
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    (Original post by ssmith111)
    if anyone can give some advice I would be grateful!

    I have offers from LSE for law or from UPENN (university of pennsylvania, Ivy league); I think I would prefer to go to Penn (for the breadth of education, experience etc) but my long-term goal is to secure a training contract with a magic circle firm; will i be disadvantaging myself by choosing not to study law here?
    Yeah because you need a QLD.

    So choose LSE.

    or, I believe, do the degree at UPENN, then do the conversion course.

    But is rather long.
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    LSE.
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    Isn't Law post grad in American anyway? So it must be Pre-law at UPenn? That's just a waste of time and money in my opinion if you want to work in England. I'd go with LSE.
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    ^ Exactly.
    I thought you had to do a random undergrad before getting into law school in the us?
    LSE.
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    Law is a graduate degree in the United States, a Juris Doctor (JD).

    You have to attend undergraduate first, then apply to law school after taking the LSAT.

    Another factor is cost - UPenn Law costs probably somewhere between $65,000-$75,000 USD per year.
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    The thing is I would not do law in the states, I would come back here and get sponsorship for the GDL/LPC as normal english non-law graduates can do- cost is not an issue as I am having that taken care of so without cost and (for me) the time spent doing the degree isn't as issue as I enjoy academics- my main point was do any lawyers think that I will DISADVANTAGE myself by having a degree from the U.S? This is because I am not sure if I want to study law and would prefer some time to think about other options... thank-you for the advice so far
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    If you want to practice law, it's always better to have an actual law degree.

    For example, I will graduating from NYU this year with my BA in philosophy (major), politics (major), psychology (minor) and sociology (minor); but I'm still going to a law school in the UK to get an LLB, rather than just doing a law conversion.
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    No, you won't disadvantage yourself. Conversions are seen as equivalent to LLBs for the purpose of TCs. I am a current trainee at a MC firm and assure you that people with a full law degree (like myself) are definitely in the minority (but only just, its something like 55% GDL 45% LLB). I know other trainees who did their undergrad in the US and loved it.

    The only real disadvantage is that you don't have the opportunity to study things like Family law/International law on the GDL, but as you have already decided you want to go to a commercial firm this doesn't really matter.

    My personal view is that you should go to Penn if you prefer it and the cost is taken care of.

    If you had ambitions of practicing law in the states (apart from the headaches with citizenship), then you would want a full law degree as it is generally required to be admited to practice in the US (in fact most states require you to have completed a full JD in the US). There is a real cultural difference; conversions are completely accepted in the UK but not in the US.
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    (Original post by Bea492)
    Isn't Law post grad in American anyway? So it must be Pre-law at UPenn? That's just a waste of time and money in my opinion if you want to work in England. I'd go with LSE.
    This.
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    (Original post by ssmith111)
    if anyone can give some advice I would be grateful!

    I have offers from LSE for law or from UPENN (university of pennsylvania, Ivy league); I think I would prefer to go to Penn (for the breadth of education, experience etc) but my long-term goal is to secure a training contract with a magic circle firm; will i be disadvantaging myself by choosing not to study law here?
    I wouldn't say you are necessarily disadvantaging yourself, but getting to where you want by going to Penn and doing, presumably a pre-Law course, then doing a conversion would take you five years, and cost whoever the lucky person paying for all this a lot of money. In the time that takes, you could get a Law degree from LSE and do a masters somewhere. Plus opportunities for internships for a LSE student in London aren't exactly going to be sparse.
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    Just as a practical thing, when you're at your final year at Penn you'd be applying and, with any luck, getting interviews for Vacation Schemes in London. I'm currently abroad (in Europe admittedly) and people have found firms aren't particularly keen on you doing anything besides the assessment day/interview, could you handle the cost of having to fly transatlantic possibly a few times for interviews/ACs?
    I don't know if Jacketpotatoes or someone might know if the firms are more lenient when you're so far away.
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    (Original post by roh)
    Just as a practical thing, when you're at your final year at Penn you'd be applying and, with any luck, getting interviews for Vacation Schemes in London. I'm currently abroad (in Europe admittedly) and people have found firms aren't particularly keen on you doing anything besides the assessment day/interview, could you handle the cost of having to fly transatlantic possibly a few times for interviews/ACs?
    I don't know if Jacketpotatoes or someone might know if the firms are more lenient when you're so far away.
    This is a good point. My firm will interview people over videocon, but I'm not sure if other firms do the same. It is more difficult to attend TC or vacation scheme interviews from the states than it is from London.
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    (Original post by jacketpotato)
    This is a good point. My firm will interview people over videocon, but I'm not sure if other firms do the same. It is more difficult to attend TC or vacation scheme interviews from the states than it is from London.
    The firm that seemed most amenable was an MC famous for their relatively traditional interview and simple application (If that's yours jacketptotato) but firms which had assessment centres felt that, understandably, you couldn't recreate some of the teamwork tasks, presentations etc. via Skype.
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    (Original post by roh)
    The firm that seemed most amenable was an MC famous for their relatively traditional interview and simple application (If that's yours jacketptotato) but firms which had assessment centres felt that, understandably, you couldn't recreate some of the teamwork tasks, presentations etc. via Skype.
    That's not the firm. My firm has recently introduced an assessment centre so the position may have changed. We do have a couple of trainees who did their undergrad in the US or elsehwere, not quite sure how it works. You can certainly apply for a TC while on the GDL, but admittedly op might not want to start the GDL without already having funding in place.
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    (Original post by roh)
    Just as a practical thing, when you're at your final year at Penn you'd be applying and, with any luck, getting interviews for Vacation Schemes in London. I'm currently abroad (in Europe admittedly) and people have found firms aren't particularly keen on you doing anything besides the assessment day/interview, could you handle the cost of having to fly transatlantic possibly a few times for interviews/ACs?
    I don't know if Jacketpotatoes or someone might know if the firms are more lenient when you're so far away.
    Thanks for your answers (and jacketpotato too!)- ROE did you mean that firms will not be wanting to give me a vacation scheme place as a US undergraduate or just that it will be difficult for me to get across with term dates because I will happily pay for flights etc back and forth...and do you feel that firms would want me to have done a vacation scheme before I apply for an actual TC?
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    (Original post by ssmith111)
    Thanks for your answers (and jacketpotato too!)- ROE did you mean that firms will not be wanting to give me a vacation scheme place as a US undergraduate or just that it will be difficult for me to get across with term dates because I will happily pay for flights etc back and forth...and do you feel that firms would want me to have done a vacation scheme before I apply for an actual TC?
    I'm not sure how they'd view your degree, best asking Jacketpotato.

    No I meant that they may want you to attend interviews in London, thus you would have to fly back and forth, though they may have alternatives. Beware interviews aren't usually that long after they invite you so you'll be buying quite last minute tickets and it could add up to thousands of pounds.


    The VS and TC app is often the same and how much they recruit vac schemers varies from firm to firm, some like Nabarro can be as high as 90% in some years but an average would probably be about 50% I think.
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    For purely practical purposes, I would recommend LSE over UPenn because (1) it's cheaper and (2) it's an actual law degree.

    The University of London LLB allows one to sit for the NY Bar exam -- which means you could any number of things: Become a foreign law advisor to firms in NY; take the NY bar and then transfer your NY Bar admission to the UK and become a solicitor; there are a great number of other options as well.

    Just my input.
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    TO add to the other ones at LSE you can also do a dual degree with a JD from Columbia, mind only a few go every year but still something to consider.
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    Basically (IMO of course) law in the states requires more money and time than law in the UK for a similar result (I would equate UPenns prestige both generally and in legal terms, although I admit to being less knowledgeable on the latter, to LSE's). Hence, LSE no question.

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