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how can free will exist?

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    We are chained by past actions continuously. How then can free will exist?
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    (Original post by dan_stanting)
    We are chained by past actions continuously. How then can free will exist?
    What do you mean?
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    Assuming that every decision you make now is predetermined by past actions, what caused you to act that way in the first place?
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    My opinion: Consciousness and thought are the result of random chemical reactions in your brain. You can't control these reactions therefore free will can not exist.
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    Free will can't exist under capitalism

    /controversial
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    I have the feeling that INERTIA has something to do with it.
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    (Original post by HSG1992)
    I have the feeling that INERTIA has something to do with it.
    Please... don't use that formatting :no: it reminds me too much of Zaki :emo:
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    (Original post by CUFCDan)
    Free will can't exist under capitalism

    /controversial
    If you're right, you're also wrong. The people at the top have free will then, don't they.
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    (Original post by chickenonsteroids)
    Please... don't use that formatting :no: it reminds me too much of Zaki :emo:
    Haha yep you got it!

    I thought maybe if I used that formatting it might summon him to this thread...like how when one twin feels pain, the other feels it too...that kinda thing :cool:
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    I'm no physicist but i read somewhere that Heisenberg's uncertainty principle and the Schrödinger's cat experiment are said to relate to current thinking on the existence of true randomness. So i guess an event that happens at the sub atomic level which would occur completely randomly i.e. the decay of a nuclei, could manifest its self into a macroscopic event.

    Michio Kaku is awesome!
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    Well, a nice place to start might be dropping the assumption that what we mean by free will is the capacity for some kind of causal independence. Seems to me that free will has more to do with an ability to understand one's actions as one's own in a meaningful way, regardless of how they came about. Acting freely is no more than understanding one's actions on one's own terms, etc.
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    (Original post by Dandaman9999)
    What do you mean?
    Past actions create the scenarios for current action. So anything we view as choice is limited.
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    (Original post by bssjonny)
    I'm no physicist but i read somewhere that Heisenberg's uncertainty principle and the Schrödinger's cat experiment are said to relate to current thinking on the existence of true randomness. So i guess an event that happens at the sub atomic level which would occur completely randomly i.e. the decay of a nuclei, could manifest its self into a macroscopic event.

    Michio Kaku is awesome!
    So instead of things being determined by predictable things, we are now determined by the unpredictable - "free will" as we often think about it, doesn't somehow exist as a determiner of the micro states of the universe.

    Personally, I take the view that the desire for a truly independent free will is mistaken. And that our will as determined from our environment, is a part of the person. So when someone wills to do a thing they know to be wrong, I don't see why we are to sympathise with "them".
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    nothing.
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    Einstein was not wrong.
    Because we do not know what's next, that is only us experiencing time, uncertainty only exists relative to what we know.

    I'm not a christian but it makes me kind of laugh at how they believe in free will. I used to think about things like this a lot until I realized the only real way to understand what's going on is maths.

    Well Christians believe God is eternal, so i was thinking, therefore he is external from our space-time. A lot of this makes sense because time does limit us, it controls us because we have to move with it, all forces of nature do (speed of light, time etc...). Anyway, if God created the universe, that includes time, everything, as he is external from time. Just like a creator is external from his creation. We move with time. Therefore all that is going to happen and will happen is designed as our destiny and choices are based on time. "Gods" choices aren't. The universe has already happened from his view, even if it is everlasting from your view.

    Main point:
    Applying this in a general sense, either this "cause of the universe" exists in this universe and we have free will, or this cause does not exist within this universe and destiny is set for all beings. That is the only way to truly answer this question. It's clear that he does not exist within this universe as , just like a creator is external from its creation, the creator cannot be bound by this universe and cannot exist within it. Of course it could interact though. Therefore the solution is that this cause does not exist within this universe and destiny is set for all beings.

    It's hard to imagine for some, but I can actually understand how we can be inanimate to something greater than us, just like we are to the ground.
    It's more about operating in different dimensions. Inanimate objects move with time, so do we. Don't get this confused with what I said earlier by the way, we don't create inanimate objects, we re-arrange.
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    (Original post by JonathanM)
    Einstein was not wrong.
    Because we do not know what's next, that is only us experiencing time, uncertainty only exists relative to what we know.

    I'm not a christian but it makes me kind of laugh at how they believe in free will. I used to think about things like this a lot until I realized the only real way to understand what's going on is maths.

    Well Christians believe God is eternal, so i was thinking, therefore he is external from our space-time. A lot of this makes sense because time does limit us, it controls us because we have to move with them, all forces of nature do (speed of light, time etc...). Anyway, if God created the universe, he must have fully made "time", as he is external from time. Just like a creator is external from his creation. We move with time. Therefore all that is going to happen and will happen is designed as our destiny and choices are based on time. "Gods" choices aren't. The universe has already happened from his view, even if it is everlasting from your view.


    Applying this in a general sense, whatever caused the universe would be external to it too our knowledge as we do not see how/experience it so far. Therefore, either this force (Talking about "God" in a general sense) exists in this universe and we have free will, or this force does not exist within this universe and destiny is set for all beings.

    It's hard to imagine for some, but I can actually understand how we can be inanimate to something greater than us, just like we are to the ground.
    It's more about operating in different dimensions. Inanimate objects move with time, so do we. Don't get this confused with what I said earlier by the way, we don't create inanimate objects, we re-arrange.
    That was... poetic. :proud:

    edit: ah, it was more poetic before you edited in that last sentence - it ended so softly and with such magnitude.
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    (Original post by takethyfacehence)
    That was... poetic. :proud:

    edit: ah, it was more poetic before you edited in that last sentence - it ended so softly and with such magnitude.
    poetic, wat u on m8
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    i dont believe we have free will in the sense it is understood.

    We do have free choice
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    (Original post by pinkangelgirl)
    i dont believe we have free will in the sense it is understood.

    We do have free choice
    Because we do not have the vision to see the future, it doesn't mean it hasn't already happened. Time guides us through it what has already happened.
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    (Original post by JonathanM)
    Because we do not have the vision to see the future, it doesn't mean it hasn't already happened. Time guides us through it what has already happened.
    i think the future had already happened in a respect

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Updated: April 23, 2012
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