[CB91]

Maradona
Ronaldo
Zidane
Cryuff
Messi

I'd say it shows how good Messi is when he's in these sort of lists at the age of 24. I have no doubt that when Messi retires he will be number one.

[JME10]

(Original post by Deshi)
Yeah he is but there are so many other midfielders people forget like Zico and Lothar Matthaus, two players that I think of straight way when I think of some of the greatest ever. I think the replys on this thread already prove the point I'm making, that these lists aren't really fair on players who play anywhere other than in attack.

And there have been some amazing defenders over the years and I'd have to disagree with the bolded part.

Valid points man. I actually debated quite a bit on adding Zico to my list of 5 but I guess the usual bias towards attackers is because ultimately, we value most and opt to praise most those who directly influence winning most. Of course in football, it means those that score a lot/score and create lot.

Attackers in general get paid the most, have the highest transfer fees, sell the most shirts with their names on etc for this key reason.

[Moleman1996]

In order

1. Lionel Messi
2. Sir Tom Finney
3. Pele
4. Sir Stanley Mathews
5. Ronaldo (Braziliian, not Cristiano)

[Deshi]

(Original post by pube)
i wasn't around to watch those players so i can't really comment on them. it's pretty annoying when people bring up old players and claim they are better than this person or that person when all they've seen of them is a few youtube clips

It's always hard to compare across generations, but if you're talking about the greatest ever it has to be done.

there's more to midfielding/attacking than defending. defenders aren't required to use their minds like other players are. they can't take risks like other players, and they don't have the power to instigate a match. that's not down to ability, it's their role telling them they aren't allowed to do it. it's unfair, but it's just the way the game is. goalkeepers can't be the best players of all time because they are very limited to what they can do

skilling up players or producing sexy backflicks isn't part of their game. they can't be football genius'/magicians. they're limited to reading the game, tackling and communicating with other defenders (e.g. playing an offside trap), they can't possess the flair that players like zidane, bergkamp, ozil, van persie etc. have

that's why a defender can't be the best player of all time

You're trying to argue that attackers are more important than defenders and I;d have to disagree. What's the point of a team scoring loads if they concede loads as well? In the grand scheme of things defenders are just as vital to the team to get a result. Do you remember Euro 2004 were I don't think Greece won a game more than 1-0, they pretty much won that tournament on solid defending alone. Defending is underrated.

[Nucleolus]

(Original post by Deshi)
Threads like this are never fair on defenders/goalkeepers/midfielders who are probably just as good in there relative positions.

Another reason why I hate the 'Who is/are the greatest player(s)?' debate; we're comparing players irrespective of their positions, the generation they played in and subsequently the standard and quality of football in their respective eras. And of course, it's all subjective; some people are fundamentalists and have a list of tick boxes that a player needs to check off for them to be considered as great, whereas with others it's a stylistic preference. Also, speaking on a personal level, I can't state with conviction how high I rate players such as Pelé and Maradona when I only have YouTube compilations to go by, and as a result, it is much easier to hold players like Messi, who I watch regularly, in higher regard. But I don't understand why we can't appreciate all these players at the same level, instead everything has to be a competition.

[Deshi]

(Original post by Nucleolus)
Another reason why I hate the 'Who is/are the greatest player(s)?' debate; we're comparing players irrespective of their positions, the generation they played in and subsequently the standard and quality of football in their respective eras. And of course, it's all subjective; some people are fundamentalists and have a list of tick boxes that a player needs to check off for them to be considered as great, whereas with others it's a stylistic preference. Also, speaking on a personal level, I can't state with conviction how high I rate players such as Pelé and Maradona when I only have YouTube compilations to go by, and as a result, it is much easier to hold players like Messi, who I watch regularly, in higher regard. But I don't understand why we can't appreciate all these players at the same level, instead everything has to be a competition.

I agree. And I think the boldest part is why so many will have Zidane in there greatest ever. We all grew up (well I did) with the likes of Zidane/Ronaldo/Henry owning football, which is why comparing players across generations is hard and very subjective.

[The Patriot]

1. Lionel Messi
2. Diego Maradona
3. George Best
4. Zinedine Zidane
5. CR7

[Shabalala]

In no particular order

Lionel Messi
Pele
Diego Maradona
Franz Beckenbauer
Alfred Di Stefano

Honourable mentions to Johan Cruyff, Lev Yashin, Garrincha, Cristiano Ronaldo, George Best, Ferenc Puskas, Michel Platini, Eusebio, Zinedine Zidane & Franco Baresi,

[pube]

(Original post by Deshi)
It's always hard to compare across generations, but if you're talking about the greatest ever it has to be done.

that's why i haven't listed my top 5. ability isn't the only thing that needs to be considered, it's consistency too. youtube videos don't tell you how consistent a player is, you have to actually watch them play to find out.

(Original post by Deshi)
You're trying to argue that attackers are more important than defenders and I;d have to disagree. What's the point of a team scoring loads if they concede loads as well? In the grand scheme of things defenders are just as vital to the team to get a result. Do you remember Euro 2004 were I don't think Greece won a game more than 1-0, they pretty much won that tournament on solid defending alone. Defending is underrated.

that's not what i'm arguing at all. i'm saying that defenders are too limited to what they can do so they cannot be the best players of all time. it's easier to focus on 4 things (reading the game, tackling, intercepting and playing the offside trap) than an infinite amount - an attacker is limitless to what they can do.

put an attacker in the stickiest situation and he can get out of it in 50 different ways; the route he chooses and his execution is what makes him better or worse than another player.

when a striker runs towards the defender with the ball, all the defender can do is tackle him. he's not required to use his brain or footwork like attackers/midfielders. therefore it's fair to say that there's a lot more to attacking than defending (doesn't mean being an attacker is more important), so being the best attacker of all time is a bigger achievement than being the best defender of all time

[Palatial Veranda]

This is patently quite subjective so I feel the need to propose an alternative 5 who would all be good shouts for certain football historians

In no particular order:

Josef Bican
Michael Laudrup
Luis Suárez Miramontes
Giuseppe Meazza
Gaetano Scirea

[3309will]

1. Pele
2. Best
3. Maradonna
4. Scholes
5. Ronaldinho (personally, I think in his prime he was streets ahead of Messi)

[TM94]

Maradona
Pele
Messi
Zidane
Maldini

[Deshi]

(Original post by pube)
that's why i haven't listed my top 5. ability isn't the only thing that needs to be considered, it's consistency too. youtube videos don't tell you how consistent a player is, you have to actually watch them play to find out.

Which is why you have to look at things such as stats and other people's opinions to form any kind of decent opinion yourself.

that's not what i'm arguing at all. i'm saying that defenders are too limited to what they can do so they cannot be the best players of all time. it's easier to focus on 4 things (reading the game, tackling, intercepting and playing the offside trap) than an infinite amount - an attacker is limitless to what they can do.

put an attacker in the stickiest situation and he can get out of it in 50 different ways; the route he chooses and his execution is what makes him better or worse than another player.

when a striker runs towards the defender with the ball, all the defender can do is tackle him. he's not required to use his brain or footwork like attackers/midfielders. therefore it's fair to say that there's a lot more to attacking than defending (doesn't mean being an attacker is more important), so being the best attacker of all time is a bigger achievement than being the best defender of all time

I see your point and it's a valid one but I'd still have to disagree. At the end of the day, an attacker can do all of that and the final outcome is still only a goal. Who's the better player, a striker that can only score, so let's say a 100 goals in a 100 appearances, or a striker that is a jack of all trades and master of none and get's 50 goals in a 100 appearances?

[thepurplefelt]

suprised beckenbauer hasn't been mentioned

[pube]

(Original post by TM94)
Maradona
Pele
Messi
Zidane
Maldini

erm..

messi over zidane and fat ronaldo? he doesn't have a single euro or world cup to his name. until he plays for argentina the way he does for barca, no chance

[gaz.sports.store]

Messi is easily the best ever.

[TM94]

(Original post by pube)
erm..

messi over zidane and fat ronaldo? he doesn't have a single euro or world cup to his name. until he plays for argentina the way he does for barca, no chance

I've got Zidane in there are you blind?

[chrissy_h]

(Original post by pube)
let's be honest, a goalkeeper will never be the best player of all time haha

Lev Yashin?

[Kenan and Kel]

(Original post by pube)
let's be honest, a goalkeeper will never be the best player of all time haha

why do you need to prove yourself in europe if you have already done it at the world cup?

Because European football is more competitive than the World Cup.

[Jordan_1]

Anybody who says a player needs to prove them self on a cold Tuesday night in the Premier League is a ****ing moron.