[Deshi]

(Original post by pube)
the worlds best strikers not only score loads of goals, but they score the best of goals.

it depends on the service they get anyway. the best strikers tend to play for the best teams, which is why they score so much. my point is that if you're comparing players individually then stats don't mean jack, because messi gets more service than heskey has ever gotten in his life so of-course he will score more goals.
i was originally talking about zidane, who is NOT a striker, but you slyly changed the topic. obviously the best strikers score more goals, but my original point was that the best player is the player that can control a match by himself.

messi can score 20 goals for argentina in a match alone but that means he has to rely on his other teammates to hold the lead and play their part. zidane on the other hand has the ability to control a game by himself, which is why he is a better player than messi. and which is why he is an all-time great (because he won france world cups/euros).

why do you think messi isn't taking argentina places? because he isn't good enough to do it on his own despite the amount of goals he scores for barca. so no, scoring the most goals doesn't make you the best player

can you think of any world class striker that does what striker B does (that is, be completely useless in a game then score a bunch of tap-ins)? didn't think so.

You've been arguing all this time that attackers are always going to be regarded as the best ever because they have the scope to do more. But then you contradict yourself with the bit in bold considering an attacker such as a striker for example, never actually controls the game by definition, that's pretty much always down to the midfield.

Edit: And I think we should agree to disagree, we're both probably too stubborn to admit either one of us is wrong (well I know I am) and we've been debating for a while now.

[pube]

(Original post by Deshi)
You've been arguing all this time that attackers are always going to be regarded as the best ever because they have the scope to do more. But then you contradict yourself with the bit in bold considering an attacker such as a striker for example, never actually controls the game by definition, that's pretty much always down to the midfield.

that's no contradiction son. van persie/rooney/di natale are strikers that can control games

(Original post by Deshi)
Edit: And I think we should agree to disagree, we're both probably too stubborn to admit either one of us is wrong (well I know I am) and we've been debating for a while now.

yeah i know.. this stupid argument has completely ****ed up my revision for the day

[Deshi]

(Original post by pube)
that's no contradiction son. van persie/rooney/di natale are strikers that can control games

You can't say they control games and then say Messi doesn't. But yeah we'll agree to disagree.

yeah i know.. this stupid argument has completely ****ed up my revision for the day

Yeah same, arguments on TSR are my favourite form of procrastination.

[JK.]

Can't believe how many people on here are convinced the only footage of pre '90s players is confined to best bits compilations.

(Original post by Stu Laverty)
To me, to be the best player ever you need to win the Euros, World Cup, Champions League and league titles in several leagues. And you have to prove yourself on a cold Tuesday night in the Premier League:

- Fabien Barthez
- Thierry Henry

Take your pick.

If Trezeguet's opener on that mild Thursday evening at the Cottage a couple of years ago counts for the last category, he could be in for a shout, too.

(Original post by Mess.)
Beckenbauer and mattheus were two central defenders but were also two of the greatest attacking players in the world. They dominated games from centre half yet scored a lot of goals as well as assisting a lot as well. Would they now be the best players of all time as they can do pretty much everything?

Was gonna say this myself, would add to the Gullit list as well.

[KSinghh]

Attackers Midfielders Defenders Goalkeepers
1. Henry 1. Beckham 1. Paolo Maldini 1. Peter Schmiecel
2.Ronaldhinio 2. Zidane 2. Roberto Carlos 2. Oliver Khaan
3. Fat Ronaldo 3. Pirlo 3. Fabio Cannavaro 3. Iker Casillas
4. Messi 4. Figo 4. Allesandro Nesta 4. Gianluigi Buffon
5. Del Piero 5. Cristiano Ron 5. Carles Puyol 5. Edwin Van der Sar My Generation, not in particular order.

My 4 ( One from each) = 1. Henry 2. Zidane 3. Carlos 4. Buffon
My 5 (Generally) = 1. Henry 2. Ronaldhinio 3. Beckham 4. Zidane 5. Messi

[DScofield]

(Original post by Nucleolus)
Another reason why I hate the 'Who is/are the greatest player(s)?' debate; we're comparing players irrespective of their positions, the generation they played in and subsequently the standard and quality of football in their respective eras. And of course, it's all subjective; some people are fundamentalists and have a list of tick boxes that a player needs to check off for them to be considered as great, whereas with others it's a stylistic preference. Also, speaking on a personal level, I can't state with conviction how high I rate players such as Pelé and Maradona when I only have YouTube compilations to go by, and as a result, it is much easier to hold players like Messi, who I watch regularly, in higher regard. But I don't understand why we can't appreciate all these players at the same level, instead everything has to be a competition.

Perfect post.

[Victor-PP]

Maradona, Messi, Zidane, Ronaldo Nazario, Pele.

[LeeM1]

To those giving Messi stick for his game at International level, have you actually seen him play for Argentina? He's incredible, not as prolific as in a Barca shirt but in every other sense he's equally as impressive. Another awful shout is Messi needing to play in the Premier League, why? You've seen him destroy Man U and Arsenal, Stoke would be much easier opposition. Pains me to say it but La Liga is probably stronger than the Prem right now.
As for my list, so hard to narrow it down to 5..
Pele
Messi
Zidane
Maradona
Brazilian Ronaldo

[pube]

(Original post by Deshi)
You can't say they control games and then say Messi doesn't. But yeah we'll agree to disagree.

i thought messi was an AM? btw i'm not saying messi is garbage, he's a quality player. but i don't think he can control games well enough to be considered the best. and you're right, that is down to midfielders more than strikers. in terms of goals i personally judge strikers on how they score them instead of how many they score

anyway, do you think messi is better than this guy?

[Mastermind`]

Maradona
Pele
Cruyff
Beckenbauer
Zidane

(Original post by Mess.)
Beckenbauer and mattheus were two central defenders but were also two of the greatest attacking players in the world. They dominated games from centre half yet scored a lot of goals as well as assisting a lot as well. Would they now be the best players of all time as they can do pretty much everything?

Spot on. I think defenders have to show some extraordinary technical skills, enough to rival those of attacking players to be considered with the very greatest players of all-time. Those two you mentioned and someone like Baresi certainly did so.

(Original post by JK.)
Can't believe how many people on here are convinced the only footage of pre '90s players is confined to best bits compilations.

[Deshi]

(Original post by pube)
i thought messi was an AM? btw i'm not saying messi is garbage, he's a quality player. but i don't think he can control games well enough to be considered the best. and you're right, that is down to midfielders more than strikers. in terms of goals i personally judge strikers on how they score them instead of how many they score

anyway, do you think messi is better than this guy?

Huge admirer of Ronaldo but Messi is better. And that's not just ability wise, but as a professional footballer as well. I was watching the greatest ever programme on Sky Sports (the one where they go through individual players) and during Ronaldo's one someone (I think it was Cafu) was talking about how sometimes it looked like Ronaldo thought he was too good too train. He didn't even think he needed a decent diet and if you remember he was chubby at the 2006 WC.

[Spontogical]

Messi
Zidane
Maradona
Pele
Ronaldo
-----------
Ronaldinho
CR9

[Jordan_1]

(Original post by KSinghh)
Attackers Midfielders Defenders Goalkeepers
1. Henry 1. Beckham 1. Paolo Maldini 1. Peter Schmiecel
2.Ronaldhinio 2. Zidane 2. Roberto Carlos 2. Oliver Khaan
3. Fat Ronaldo 3. Pirlo 3. Fabio Cannavaro 3. Iker Casillas
4. Messi 4. Figo 4. Allesandro Nesta 4. Gianluigi Buffon
5. Del Piero 5. Cristiano Ron 5. Carles Puyol 5. Edwin Van der Sar My Generation, not in particular order.

My 4 ( One from each) = 1. Henry 2. Zidane 3. Carlos 4. Buffon
My 5 (Generally) = 1. Henry 2. Ronaldhinio 3. Beckham 4. Zidane 5. Messi

You honestly believe Beckham deserves to be in the top 5?!

[Mr. K]

1. Zidane
2. Ronaldinho
3. Roberto Carlos
4. Gianfranco Zola
5. Raul

[Deshi]

(Original post by Mastermind`)
Spot on. I think defenders have to show some extraordinary technical skills, enough to rival those of attacking players to be considered with the very greatest players of all-time. Those two you mentioned and someone like Baresi certainly did so.

There's others like Koeman, Scirea, Moore, but the latter two didn't really score many.

[J.Star]

I'm not sure about all time.

But in my lifetime (not in order)

Henry
Bergkamp
Zidane
Fat Ronaldo
Messi

[keyboard-warrior]

(Original post by Deshi)
Threads like this are never fair on defenders/goalkeepers/midfielders who are probably just as good in there relative positions.

Yes but at the end of the day, who's more important to the team?

Arguably the attacking players. And also, I think most would agree that to succeed as an attacking player, you'd need a greater level of skill and talent - the task of scoring/making a goal is undoubtedly more difficult than preventing one (in general). We can all remember football on the school playground, right? The ****ty players (I was one of them) were always picked last and were always told to stay back to defend, because sticking your leg out to tackle is much easier than dribbling around and trying to somehow kick the ball into a space where the keeper can't save it. I know its sounds crude comparing world class football to playground stuff, but come on, the likes of messi, ronaldo, RvP, Xavi are truly indispensable. Compare that to the likes of Terry, Vidic, Ferdinard, Pique, I can find another set of back four who may not be totally as good as those lot in quality, but you bet it'll be damn well close to them.

[Mastermind`]

(Original post by Deshi)
There's others like Koeman, Scirea, Moore, but the latter two didn't really score many.

Scirea is a strainge one, rated quite highly by football 'experts' but never seen him mentioned much by fans. Not as famous as Baresi and Matthaus, it seems, but he won basically everything there is to win and there is good footage of him.

[Koscielny]

Not sure why people from our generation say players like Puskas, Cruyff, Maradonna, Best are the best players every to play the game, it's not like you watched them week in week out... you might of seen a YouTube clip of them but YouTube can make any player look good.

[Kallisto]

(Original post by JME10)
Really interesting thread/question this as it's so subjective

In any case, i'm going with these (in no particular order)

Pele
Maradona
Puskas
Cruyff
Di Stefano

You are right this is a thread which can be so controversial. In spite of the fact that you have written well known and good footballers there are some of them who I miss in your list. How about Zidane, Platini, Beckenbauer, Matthäus, Figo and Messi?