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Ex-Prostitute and Proud?

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    Hello,

    Even though I don't agree with the wording of the controversial "...ex-gay and proud" sign, I am curious what people on this forum think concerning a sign on a bus saying "Ex-prostitute and proud!", offering help to men and women in prostitution to get out of it?

    Now, I am not saying that prostitution and homosexuality are the same no. There are however homosexual prostitutes as well as heterosexual prostitutes, as well as bi prostitutes.

    I am not nor have ever been a prostitute, but I do help women who have been trafficked into prostitution. It is very difficult for them, and many times, they go back into prostitution.

    Now, many people think that prostitution is ok, wonderful even. However, other people don't.

    In the Bible, prostitution is a no-no. The Abrahamic faiths, including Jewish Orthodox people, Christians, and as far as I know, Muslims, do not condone prostitution. Christians for a long time have tried to help people escape from prostitution. Atheists who believe prostitution is wrong for other reasons unrelated to the Bible also try to help people who WANT to no longer be prostitutes.

    So, if you saw a sign on a bus saying "Ex-Prostitute and proud... Call if you want help to escape prostitution" with a phone number, what would you think?

    Would you respect this person for deciding to change his/her career and being proud of it?

    Would you believe this causes psychological harm to prostitutes who want to be prostitutes, and why?

    Would you not care?

    Would you decide oh I want to be a prostitute?

    If you were a prostitute who didn't want to be one anymore, would you think hey I can identify and I want to call?

    Do you think it is wrong to reach out to prostitutes who may not want to be prostitutes, in order to offer them help?

    Thanks.

    Peace and God bless you
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    I would respect the individual for making their own decision whether it was the right thing to do for them. The important thing here is whether the individual sees it as wrong or not. I have friends who are related to prostitutes who earn over 100k a year and are very happy with their lifestyles. We have no right to judge whether someone else selling themselves for sex is right or wrong, we shouldn't force people out of an occupation that they are happy in. Morals are subjective and culturally relative so if they have personal issue with their occupation and decide to leave then I'd congratulate them.
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    Where's my gyal Chloe at?
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    Depends. Some people would say it is ridiculous and demeans women, whilst others might say it is a way of empowering them. Not that prostitution is exlusive to females, but more common.

    It would be interesting but it would stimulate the idea that prositution is immoral and needs to be sorted, when some people believe prostitution is fine.

    Personally I'm not sure what to make of something like that, but I do know there already are prostitution help groups to ease people out of the lifestyle.
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    (Original post by Mishmashmoo)
    I would respect the individual for making their own decision whether it was the right thing to do for them. The important thing here is whether the individual sees it as wrong or not. I have friends who are related to prostitutes who earn over 100k a year and are very happy with their lifestyles. We have no right to judge whether someone else selling themselves for sex is right or wrong, we shouldn't force people out of an occupation that they are happy in. Morals are subjective and culturally relative so if they have personal issue with their occupation and decide to leave then I'd congratulate them.
    Hello Mishmashmoo,

    Yes that is true that there are prostitutes who are very happy being prostitutes and are making tons of money (which is something that they really like) in their profession of choice.

    However, it is equally true that there are prostitutes who are not happy being prostitutes and are stuck in it, many of them being forced to become prostitutes via pimps and lies. Many are also addicted to drugs and see prostitution as a way to pay for their addiction.

    Concerning your friends, do you think they would be offended by such a sign on a bus about an ex-prostitute, or do you think they might wonder if this ex-prostitute is from the group of prostitutes being forced into prostitution to benefit their pimps or to pay for a drug habit?

    Thanks for your input and I understand it.

    Peace and God bless you
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    (Original post by Kiss)
    Depends. Some people would say it is ridiculous and demeans women, whilst others might say it is a way of empowering them. Not that prostitution is exlusive to females, but more common.
    Hello Kiss,

    People, even people of the same belief, can disagree about everything, including such minute details as which they like to drink, coffee or tea.

    About the idea of prostitution empowering women, I believe that depends on the individual. For example, if a woman decides to make money selling sex with her, then it does empower her to use her body as merchandise. If she is receiving the money for it and is happy and enjoys her profession, then I do think that is in a way "empowering" for her personally, though I don't believe it to "empower women."

    However, sad to say, many women become prostitutes when it is not their original choice. I don't know if you have ever heard about trafficking, but sadly, there are many young people, especially poor young people or young people who have run away from their homes, who are used by older people in order to make money off of them. Pimps are famous for this, and keep their merchandise (people) under their clutches through fear, intimidation, beatings, rape, drugs, and imprisonment. This I believe to be unacceptable and does not "empower women" at all. Sad to say, for a long time, women have been victims of sexual abuse, and forcing a girl/woman to have sex with another person in order for another person to get money is sexual abuse as well.

    Boys and some men have also been forced to have sex with others (either homosexual or heterosexual, but mostly homosexual in the case with boys) in order for someone else to get money. This is a tragedy.


    It would be interesting but it would stimulate the idea that prositution is immoral and needs to be sorted, when some people believe prostitution is fine.
    I disagree with this because, for example, I know there are ex-Christians. I know some as friends and respect them even though they don't believe in Christian beliefs. Their views do not make me think that Christian beliefs are immoral and needs to be sorted. Rather, it just reminds me people are different and think differently. I am thankful that Jesus never taught his apostles to kill ex-followers of Jesus and that Jesus never taught his apostles to kill those who didn't believe in him. Rather, he just concentrated on what the apostles believed.

    So, I personally think it's normal for people to disagree in what they believe is immoral or not, not something to be afraid of or be threatened by or hostile towards.

    I personally am not one bit afraid of or threatened by or hostile against ex Christians. I believe they are wrong, but they obviously believe I am wrong lol, and we can agree to disagree and live together peaceably.

    Personally I'm not sure what to make of something like that, but I do know there already are prostitution help groups to ease people out of the lifestyle.
    That is true.

    Peace and God bless you
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    I think I'd be fine with a bus sign like that. Prostitution is doing something, not being something. I don't see how it's comparable to the 'ex-gay' adverts
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    Wrong how bigoted you can't have therapy to stop being a prostitute!
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    There's a clear difference between being gay and being a prostitute. Being a prostitute is definitely reversible, and being gay is almost certainly NOT.

    I'd be fine about the adverts regarding prostitution, but absolutely not okay with them regarding homosexuality.
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    What exactly do you mean, 'ex-prostitute and proud'?

    To be proud of that is no more a defence mechanism than anything else. Being a prostitute is nothing to be proud of, nor any other occupation. It is just a pathetic, quick way of saying 'sticks and stones won't break my bones...etc'.

    The idea of being ex-gay and proud is just as useless. Being ex-gay and proud is as arbitrary and being gay and proud, they are both meaningless statements which only show up individuals for caring far more about what other people think of them than what they think of themselves. What are we if we can't think what we want about our identity? Robotic, thats what.
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    (Original post by SilverArch)
    I think I'd be fine with a bus sign like that. Prostitution is doing something, not being something. I don't see how it's comparable to the 'ex-gay' adverts
    Having gay sex is clearly doing something, don't you think? So if 'ex-gay' simply meant 'no longer sexually active with members of the same gender' would you have a problem with it?

    Even matters of attraction are things that happen to you (passive), rather than being something you are. Being black, disabled, female etc are part of how you are constituted as a human being. But to say that having feelings of attraction to people is analogous just seems bizarre. Is it 'being something' to like certain kinds of music?
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    (Original post by asdfgah)
    There's a clear difference between being gay and being a prostitute. Being a prostitute is definitely reversible, and being gay is almost certainly NOT.
    Really? Even the most anti-reparative therapy organisations seem to acknowledge that change sometimes happens.
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    (Original post by dreiviergrenadier)
    Having gay sex is clearly doing something, don't you think? So if 'ex-gay' simply meant 'no longer sexually active with members of the same gender' would you have a problem with it?

    Even matters of attraction are things that happen to you (passive), rather than being something you are. Being black, disabled, female etc are part of how you are constituted as a human being. But to say that having feelings of attraction to people is analogous just seems bizarre. Is it 'being something' to like certain kinds of music?
    An advert promoting celibacy? Well, I'd think it was wierd, but a campaign to increase celibacy wouldn't bother me, as long as it wasn't expressed as 'ex-gay'. Stopping the action of sex is different to turning off your attractions

    I have a disability, and tbh my being gay wil affect my life more and is more integral to my sense of identity than my disability is. Being attracted to women is part of my identity, so I AM gay
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    (Original post by SilverArch)
    An advert promoting celibacy? Well, I'd think it was wierd, but a campaign to increase celibacy wouldn't bother me, as long as it wasn't expressed as 'ex-gay'. Stopping the action of sex is different to turning off your attractions

    I have a disability, and tbh my being gay wil affect my life more and is more integral to my sense of identity than my disability is. Being attracted to women is part of my identity, so I AM gay
    OK, but if 'turning off'/changing(/managing) attractions is possible, would an advert for that bother you?

    As for matters of identity - I would readily agree that things which aren't inherent can constitute our personalities and lives far more than things which are; my being white, for example, is utterly irrelevant to the way I live my life, but my veganism (for example) is not inherent and has far greater consequences. What I meant to suggest was a distinction between being a certain way (those things which cannot be subject to change), and ways of behaving/being affected, which might be. It would still be perfectly acceptable to use the 'I am' (e.g. I am a vegan) for the latter category, but it doesn't have the same implications as the former (e.g. I am white).
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    (Original post by dreiviergrenadier)
    OK, but if 'turning off'/changing(/managing) attractions is possible, would an advert for that bother you?

    As for matters of identity - I would readily agree that things which aren't inherent can constitute our personalities and lives far more than things which are; my being white, for example, is utterly irrelevant to the way I live my life, but my veganism (for example) is not inherent and has far greater consequences. What I meant to suggest was a distinction between being a certain way (those things which cannot be subject to change), and ways of behaving/being affected, which might be. It would still be perfectly acceptable to use the 'I am' (e.g. I am a vegan) for the latter category, but it doesn't have the same implications as the former (e.g. I am white).
    The problem is that there is no credible evidence that attraction can be chosen. We know that sometimes people change sexuality naturally, but nobody has found any way to consciously do it. They claim to, but it's bogus, with only a couple of anecdotes to back it up, and people now 'reverting' back to homosexuality after a period of 'straightness'...If it was truly proven and possible, then I guess I can't see a reason to ban the advert, as long as the advert was respectful ("Banish the Gay devil in you" is not respectful and should be banned always, "Help and therapy to change your sexuality" is far more respectful). I wouldn't like it, because I have a problem with people suggesting that cetain sexualities are somehow superior, BUT I wouldn't ban advertising it in a non-hateful way, as long as it was a proven method.

    I guess identity is more a personal thing. I see my being gay as inherent, because it's controlled by my body and mind and I can't change it. BUT, I wouldn't care a bit if another gay person thought differently, and said it was like liking certain foods or music. Up to the individual I say.
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    Prostitutes provide a very important service. We need to stop hostility towards sex workers in this country and promote the fact that prostitution is a lucrative career.
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    (Original post by barnetbuzzzz)
    Prostitutes provide a very important service. We need to stop hostility towards sex workers in this country and promote the fact that prostitution is a lucrative career.
    You could have put that better. I think that there is a state in America where it's legal.

    Nevertheless, their squeaky clean system is not what we're dealing with in London. From my own meagre perspective of illegal prostitution, it is not a choice. People are forced by numerous factors to sell their bodies. Factors like addiction to drugs, financial difficulties, abuse... etc.

    Whether someone ought to be "proud" about that kind of past is up to them...then again I think the slogan is trying to emphasize on the pride felt by the person who managed to liberate themselves from the trade, not actually being proud about being a prostitute.

    Opinion. :cheers:
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    (Original post by JessaminePoppy)
    You could have put that better. I think that there is a state in America where it's legal.

    Nevertheless, their squeaky clean system is not what we're dealing with in London. From my own meagre perspective of illegal prostitution, it is not a choice. People are forced by numerous factors to sell their bodies. Factors like addiction to drugs, financial difficulties, abuse... etc.
    I have plenty of experience of the sex industry in London and it doesn't resemble what you're saying at all.
    Of course there are some girls who work in trashy brothels and on the streets who have drug addictions etc, but there are plenty of girls who work in much classier establishments earning well over 60k a year and often in the six figures.
    Don't people work in any job for the same reason? People need money to live, that's why people work, most people don't enjoy their jobs. Prostitution is no less degrading than working in Tesco, and prostitutes earn well above the average income.
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    (Original post by barnetbuzzzz)
    I have plenty of experience of the sex industry in London and it doesn't resemble what you're saying at all.
    Of course there are some girls who work in trashy brothels and on the streets who have drug addictions etc, but there are plenty of girls who work in much classier establishments earning well over 60k a year and often in the six figures.
    Don't people work in any job for the same reason? People need money to live, that's why people work, most people don't enjoy their jobs. Prostitution is no less degrading than working in Tesco, and prostitutes earn well above the average income.
    Hm. Food for thought. I did say I didn't know much. It's true Thank you for enlarging my perspective on the sex industry.

    I still think that the sex workers the slogan is targeting are those who aren't happy with being prostitutes and who were forced into it.

    Both sides exist... I mean the workers on the streets seem degraded to me (but of course whether something is degrading or not is subjective.) Obviously the very successful prostitutes who are happy often escape the public eye, in favour of the more traditional conception which I described...

    Would you say there are more people involved in the classier establishments or in the trashy brothels?
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    (Original post by JessaminePoppy)
    Hm. Food for thought. I did say I didn't know much. It's true Thank you for enlarging my perspective on the sex industry.

    I still think that the sex workers the slogan is targeting are those who aren't happy with being prostitutes and who were forced into it.

    Both sides exist... I mean the workers on the streets seem degraded to me (but of course whether something is degrading or not is subjective.) Obviously the very successful prostitutes who are happy often escape the public eye, in favour of the more traditional conception which I described...

    Would you say there are more people involved in the classier establishments or in the trashy brothels?
    Probably the trashy brothels, I'd say they make up 60-70% of the industry with the remainder being classier brothels/independent girls.
    However I disagree with the worrying number of people who want to shut down the whole industry based on the existence of sex trafficking etc. That's like banning accountancy because some people commit fraud.

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