[Stripes23]

(Original post by johnharris19944)
Anyone else think there were way too many horses in this race to begin with? I thought it was insane having that many horses all running and then if one messes up it causes a pile up.

I agree totally. The main issue here isn't the size of the fences, but the number of horses running. 40 horses is a ridiculous amount and once the number dropped down to about 20, horses stopped falling.

[Shabalala]

(Original post by Sir Phillip Jones)

Some people say sports like Football should be banned too, because of incidents like Muamba and the Italian footballer who died today following a cardiac arrest.

Really?

Why would they do that the footballers would still have had heart attacks anyway I haven't heard anyone saying Football should be banned because of it.

[Tahooper]

(Original post by stickmitch)
'Synchronised seems to have been fine after parting company with his jockey, AP McCoy, and ran on, enjoying jumping rider-less, before coming to grief further down the course.'

from bbc sport website

but you're right he fell at 6th fence not 2nd my bad

I think I should have changed my original post by now because you're about the third person to correct me on my last point.

[scotttb]

(Original post by Laura1234567890)
they get treated amazingly as well

This. Sometimes i think about how they get to be whipped all the way around a racecourse and get jealous. So lucky

[Laura1234567890]

(Original post by scotttb)
This. Sometimes i think about how they get to be whipped all the way around a racecourse and get jealous. So lucky

i'm serious, have you ever been to a racing yard? it's literally 5* accommodation
the horses are there more than they are racing, there's a limit to how many races are horse can do
granted, it all comes back to money and and they need to be kept healthiest and happiest as possible to race better!
but their grooms dedicate their life to them and love them so much
can't say much for the jockeys and owners in most cases but it's the grooms that spend every day with them and treat them like kings
regarding whip misuse, there are so many rules
http://www.britishhorseracing.com/in...ry/whipuse.asp
unfortunately most jockeys abuse their power in the heat of the race but bhs is very strict and is most cases the jockey will be suspended

whipping should be banned imo, i believe in a race a thoroughbred naturally gallops as fast at it can regardless if it's being hit on it's hindquarters or not
pointless!

[lilibeth]

Personally I think the national is disgusting. For those saying that if we stopped racing then the number of horses being bred would be reduced is ridiculous. Every thorough bred must of course go into racing and every rider must have a TB. Don't be ridiculous.

As for those who are saying the horses that dump their riders continue on because they enjoy it are also chatting out of their backsides. Horses are herd animals, they continue because the rest of the herd is running.

As for the whipping issue and the girl who said it doesn't hurt in my own personal experience it does hurt. Yes partially it is for the sound, which is generally how they are used in run of the mill show jumping, but being constantly battered? Not even just down the shoulder, as in both reins in one hand and using the crop full force on the backside. No, it's not acceptable. The RSPCA and WHW should be disgusted that they've been allowing it to happen.

Lower the jumps, cut the numbers of riders. Better still just make it a flat.

[beccac94]

(Original post by scotttb)
This. Sometimes i think about how they get to be whipped all the way around a racecourse and get jealous. So lucky

I don't know how many times I've said this the past few days but YOU obviously don't ride as you would know that whipping a horse doesn't hurt it. Horse whips are no longer as hard as they used to be (like 50-60 years ago) they are so easily broke (one of my friends wacked one against their hand and it snapped in 2) as someone who has been accidently whipped with a horse whip by someone who was learning to ride and I was helping out at the stables I can say that it doesn't hurt. The whip has a flappy bit on the end of it which creates creates a noise, its used only to let the horse know that you are still there and that they can run faster NOT TO HURT THEM!!!!!!

I was say it again creates a noise not hurts them.

[beccac94]

(Original post by lilibeth)

As for the whipping issue and the girl who said it doesn't hurt in my own personal experience it does hurt. Yes partially it is for the sound, which is generally how they are used in run of the mill show jumping, but being constantly battered? Not even just down the shoulder, as in both reins in one hand and using the crop full force on the backside. No, it's not acceptable. The RSPCA and WHW should be disgusted that they've been allowing it to happen.

Lower the jumps, cut the numbers of riders. Better still just make it a flat.

You've obviously never been hit in the face with a whip, it doesn't hurt yeah it left a red mark but it wasn't painful the thing on the end stops it from hurting its not a stick as many of you believe the whip is made out of fairly breakable material. If they where "battering" the horse as hard as you say it would just snap it. Also there are rules about how many times they can whip a horse so "contantly battering" a horse would get them BANNED from racing so what your saying is rubbish!!!!

Lowering the jumps would INCREASE the number of injuries as the horses would run faster thus meaning they land harder on the ground creating more injuries. I agree with decreasing the amount of horses though, it is too many and I think it should be 30 max maybe even less. Flat races can still lead to horses dying the reason why one of the horses had to be put down on Thursday (I think it was thursday) was partially due to being over worked, the horse did both flat and jumping races.

I was actually reading in the newspaper on Friday that a lot of horsey people didn't think that Syncronised should have raced and think that if a horse runs the Gold cup then it shouldn't run the national as the closeness of the dates means that the horse will be still recovering from the Gold cup. The horse was obviously very nervous on the day and I personally don't think it should have raced after it bolted off, after that the horse and the jockey probably weren't going to be in the right frame of mind (I know once I fall off of a horse I'm not in the right frame of mind for a bit)

People just moan about the national just because its such a publicised race, people weren't having this conversation when the 2 horses died on the 14 March at Cheltenham or when the 2 horses died at Newcastle on 29th March. I think one thing they should do with the national is not show it on TV as horses quite often die during races its just the general public don't care (as much) because is not as publicised.

Sorry for the fat rant everyone

[lilibeth]

(Original post by beccac94)
You've obviously never been hit in the face with a whip, it doesn't hurt yeah it left a red mark but it wasn't painful the thing on the end stops it from hurting its not a stick as many of you believe the whip is made out of fairly breakable material. If they where "battering" the horse as hard as you say it would just snap it. Also there are rules about how many times they can whip a horse so "contantly battering" a horse would get them BANNED from racing so what your saying is rubbish!!!!

No. After six years in the pony club and five years of owning two horses I evidently know nothing.

The whip is made of fairly breakable material? Are you actually kidding me? I appreciate an aspect of it is for the sound but it still hurts the horse.

Evidently we just differ on whether or not horses should die, or end up injured, for something as petty as gambling.

[TheSingingMute]

No, it shouldn't.

[evilcitty]

Ban it I say. It's all about the money. Sure, I believe the horses like to run, so let them: In their own time in a large enough space without anyone on their back whipping their backside!!

Horse racing is a man made invention. For our gain, it's not for the horses. They don't benefit; they suffer.

Go and find something else to do with your money.

[RyanT]

The idea of racing horses is fine, it's the course and event holder should have some liability if horses are dying on their course. It is distasteful to be killing horses to try and create an artifical difficulty barrier, there will still be only one horse going across the line first whether the fences are at the current height, or 1 foot high. Fence height is the problem indirectly - along with number of horses racing (40), the real issue is a lack of liability for the course owner.

[beccac94]

(Original post by lilibeth)
No. After six years in the pony club and five years of owning two horses I evidently know nothing.

The whip is made of fairly breakable material? Are you actually kidding me? I appreciate an aspect of it is for the sound but it still hurts the horse.

Evidently we just differ on whether or not horses should die, or end up injured, for something as petty as gambling.

Sigh just had a huge paragraph of writing and deleted it :'( Hate it when the happens.

At no point did I say that I think its right that horses die or get injured, I just think that racing shouldn't be banned because I just understand that these things happen and even happen in riding school. You can't blame the vets or riders its just due to large number of horses in aintree which is why I said earlier that I think the amount of horse should be reduced to a max of 30.

Horses dying in races is a lot more common that most people think they just hear about it more during the national because more people watch it (which is why I don't think any horse races should be shown on TV, this would also stop a lot of betting) people die in sports (such as football) but no one asks for those sports to be banned.

Its not made out of as hard a materials you make out and is fairly flexable (well my whip is anyway :/). When one of my friends was just starting out they bought a fairly expensive whip the first time it got used the leader tapped it lightly against their leg to create a louder noise and it snapped in 2 :P (I laughed obviously cause it was fairly expensive) The whip is partially used as well to direct the horse as when the rider is in a galloping position they have less rein control or leg control. ( but as a fellow rider you already know this)

(Original post by RyanT)
Fence height is the problem indirectly - along with number of horses racing (40), the real issue is a lack of liability for the course owner.

Yes I agree that there are too many horses racing but lowering the jumps would actually increase the amount of injuries as horses would go faster thus landing harder creating more injuries.

[Mr Einstein]

(Original post by Sir Phillip Jones)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/hor...t-Aintree.html

Two Horses, Synchronised and According to Pete died today in the Grand National following falls. R.I.P.

I used to like a bet. But then there came a time when i asked myself "Can i really enjoy something in which animals are being killed for my pleasure". Once i seriously asked myself that question i quit gambling overnight.

So what do people think about the sport? Should it be banned? Would modifying the course be better i.e. having less horses or smaller fences to jump over.

Some people say sports like Football should be banned too, because of incidents like Muamba and the Italian footballer who died today following a cardiac arrest. Some people bring the argument of people eating meat and wearing leather. Where do people stand on Horseracing?

Are you a vegetarian?

Out of interest...

[James82]

(Original post by Tahooper)
I'd be for even more safety regulations in this "sport", not sure about banning it yet though because like someone above said the main aim of horse racing isn't to kill the horses like in fox hunting.

I don't think the aim of fox hunting is to kill the horses.

[kiss_me_now9]

Personally, having been involved in one way or another with horses and the equestrian industry since I was 4 years old, I would relish a ban on racing or at least just the Grand National and other known to be dangerous events such as the Cheltenham festival (where about two horses have died every year since I can remember... sometimes more).

I have so many problems with racing that it would take me all day to write them out and I tend to just get upset about it so I won't go into them unless you really want me to.

However what people need to remember is that the equestrian world, and the dog world, and the cat world, and the god damn ferret world (insert whatever animal you want there) has dodgy practices EVERYWHERE and there is not just one sector of it that is pure evil. To advocate a ban on horse racing could mean a ban on dog racing, and then it would get into the other sectors of the worlds, such as three day eventing and dog showing. It's absurd but if you know what goes on behind the scenes in those areas then you would see the progression too.

[kiss_me_now9]

(Original post by beccac94)
Yes I agree that there are too many horses racing but lowering the jumps would actually increase the amount of injuries as horses would go faster thus landing harder creating more injuries.

Sorry, this just caught my eye.

Not quite, faster racing + lower fences = less chances of the horse rotating as they fall; less chances of the horse and jockey breaking something.

Slower racing + higher fences = more chance of a rot. fall and much more chance of death.

(Obviously this applies to fixed fences)

Irrelevant as it's generally accepted that the problem with the National is that there are too many horses running in the field and when they make a mistake on take off or landing, there's not enough room for them to gather themselves again.

[beccac94]

(Original post by kiss_me_now9)
However what people need to remember is that the equestrian world, and the dog world, and the cat world, and the god damn ferret world (insert whatever animal you want there) has dodgy practices EVERYWHERE and there is not just one sector of it that is pure evil. To advocate a ban on horse racing could mean a ban on dog racing, and then it would get into the other sectors of the worlds, such as three day eventing and dog showing. It's absurd but if you know what goes on behind the scenes in those areas then you would see the progression too.

Could also lead to a ban on hamster racing



By the way I don't race hamsters before anyone says things I just saw that someone posted something about it on facebook.

[ForeverOptimistic]

(Original post by beccac94)
When you whip the horse it actually very rarely touches the horse and when it does it doesn't hurt, the whip is all about the noise of the crash which makes the horse go faster. As someone who got accidently whipped with a whip once when helping out in a riding school I can personally say it doesn't hurt.

Actually it is racing in general horse die all the time whilst racing and not just at the national which everyone seems to think. What about the horse Just Jordan who died on Friday at Sedgefield or the 2 horses that both died in a race in Newcastle on the 29th no one seems bothered about them just because it wasn't as high profile race.
Some show jumping jumps are just as high or in fact higher than aintree. With aintree's jumps the second time round they're smaller as alot of braches have fallen off but this isn't the case with show jumping.

Lowering the jumps could actually lead to more deaths as the horses would run faster and possibly land heavier causing more injuries. If you ever watch show jumping where the jumps are massive they go round at a canter because any faster would lead to more injuries.


It seems to me that is a case of its alright for one race but not another.

You know your stuff Becca, excellent post. Everyone should read this one!

There's alot of rubbish been posted on this thread. There seems to be alot of "I don't know anything about horse racing, so here's my opinion on horse racing..."

Since the Grand National seems to be getting most of the bad rep here and taking the flak for all of horse racing, i'll start with that. I was at the Grand National this weekend and i'll share what I saw regarding the horses that died. When news spread around the course that Synchronised was injured, there was alot of emotion and tears been shed, particularly near the winners enclosure and even one of the bookies I saw with a makeshift "Pray for Synch" on the top of his board. People don't care about the horses? Really?

Let's not forget about According to Pete, who was a local horse to me and one that the whole area was behind. It devested the local community, I heard from a friend who lives very close by to the owner, Peter Nelson.

So is the answer to the Grand National woes, to reduce the size of the fences?

Trainer (of According to Pete) Jefferson said: "In my eyes the fences should be bigger to slow them down. If they were a foot higher Pete would still have jumped them." He added "You can't do anything about it, it's just a freak accident that could have happened anywhere, but because it was the National everyone saw it."

Grand National-winning jockey Jason Maguire said "If you lower the fences and make things a lot easier you're going to have horses going quicker and that might cause a problem."

Champion Trainer and trainer of this years winner, Paul Nichols said “The worst thing you can do is to go too far. You make the fences smaller, they go faster and you get more fallers.”

And to the people that are inevitably going to say, "well they will be biased as they are involved in horse racing, it's all about the money with these guys."

Think about it. Synchronised is the winner of some top-notch races, Midlands Grand National, Welsh National, Lexus Chase and the best and most prestigious chase in the world, the Cheltenham Gold Cup last month. Even if he could never race again after the fall, he would have made the owner alot of money (alot more than he won racing) at stud. His breeding propects were massive. All those champion lady chasers would have had their rears in the air and their owners fat wallet open, waiting for Synch to come along and create another brilliant chaser. Now, ask yourself this question. Do the owners want their horses after they have fallen and injured themselves? Damn straight they do. It's more humane to kill them.

R.I.P. Synchronised and According to Pete.

[kiss_me_now9]

(Original post by beccac94)
Could also lead to a ban on hamster racing



By the way I don't race hamsters before anyone says things I just saw that someone posted something about it on facebook.

It could

Bah, I just re-read the post I quoted from you, and now I have something else to say but I don't wanna cos I'd feel like I'm attacking you, when I'm not