Results are out! Find what you need...fast. Get quick advice or join the chat
Hey there! Sign in to have your say on this topicNew here? Join for free to post

Why don't we just ARREST the most evil war criminal on the planet

This thread is sponsored by:
Announcements Posted on
    • Thread Starter
    • 7 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by sabre2th1)
    So he hates the Nuba people because they are Black even though the majority of them are Muslim (Wikipedia)?
    Yep, basically.

    A lot of the Nuba people are followers of Christianity and traditional African beliefs. As the programme shows, it's these people who suffer the most (though undoubtedly the Muslim population is also suffering a great deal).
    • 10 followers
    Online

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Akinfenwa)
    Why should we interfere?


    The west gets moaned at so much for helping/interfering in the affairs of Muslims.


    Let them kill each other, less for us to worry about and less people to share their oil.
    Weren't you the African Nationalist? :rofl:
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by I Persia I)
    Weren't you the African Nationalist? :rofl:
    Its a name. google it.
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by navarre)
    .
    1) I hadn't simply wanted to preserve the feelings of a 'global community'. I'd apostrophised it as said community is made up of nation states that hate each other for arbitrary, historical and biological reason. I simply used it as a byword for the sentence, 'the last thing the universe needs now'. I have no problem with 'rocking the international boat', provided it doesn't make the situation worse for the people most affected. If Interpol simply show up and slap the cuffs on the Sudanese premier, do you think that tomorrow Sudan will be a better place? Or can you see that, without ideology and infrastructure, the same mistakes will be repeated.

    2) This is a Sudanese issue for Sudan to come to terms with. I can't think of one decent intervention by the West that lead to everyone being really happy, really peaceful and really grateful (and let's face it, if I can't think of one, you can't). Problems with Soviet expansionism in Afghanistan? Arm the Mujahadeen who, incidentally, we now call the Taliban. Problems with Bin Laden? Great, assasinate a decaying, obsolete old zealot, turn Pakistan away from the negotiating table simoultaneously and mobilize al-Qaeda.

    3) Nobody ever mentions anything about extra-judicial murder until a Chinook turns up outside your compound. It's what the West has been doing systematically in Iran, Pakistan and countless other states.
    • 10 followers
    Online

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Akinfenwa)
    Its a name. google it.
    Wait. What?
    • 1 follower
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by NeuralGroove)
    Good idea. I love it when people on web forums solve sensitive geopolitical issues from the comfort of their bedroom.
    Lol, this made me chuckle.

    Didn't watch the vid but the fella in the balaclava must have been chilly in that cold place called Sudan.

    Whoever supplies people with masses of weapons will not want interference by anyone and I feel there is a lot more to everything bad going on than meets the eye. Maybe political shiz.
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by I Persia I)
    Wait. What?
    I have no Idea why you think Im an African, let alone an African nationlist. Im assuming its the name.

    Akinfenwa is a footballer I like. I'm not African.
    • 10 followers
    Online

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Akinfenwa)
    I have no Idea why you think Im an African, let alone an African nationlist. Im assuming its the name.

    Akinfenwa is a footballer I like. I'm not African.
    Oh Christ, I'm sorry there was another account with a similar name with a lot of African-related posts and I thought that was you. Sorry my bad!
    • Thread Starter
    • 7 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by NeuralGroove)
    1) I hadn't simply wanted to preserve the feelings of a 'global community'. I'd apostrophised it as said community is made up of nation states that hate each other for arbitrary, historical and biological reason. I simply used it as a byword for the sentence, 'the last thing the universe needs now'. I have no problem with 'rocking the international boat', provided it doesn't make the situation worse for the people most affected. If Interpol simply show up and slap the cuffs on the Sudanese premier, do you think that tomorrow Sudan will be a better place? Or can you see that, without ideology and infrastructure, the same mistakes will be repeated.

    2) This is a Sudanese issue for Sudan to come to terms with. I can't think of one decent intervention by the West that lead to everyone being really happy, really peaceful and really grateful (and let's face it, if I can't think of one, you can't). Problems with Soviet expansionism in Afghanistan? Arm the Mujahadeen who, incidentally, we now call the Taliban. Problems with Bin Laden? Great, assasinate a decaying, obsolete old zealot, turn Pakistan away from the negotiating table simoultaneously and mobilize al-Qaeda.

    3) Nobody ever mentions anything about extra-judicial murder until a Chinook turns up outside your compound. It's what the West has been doing systematically in Iran, Pakistan and countless other states.
    Yes, Sudan will be a better place. I'm not sure how removing a genocidal maniac at war with his people could fail to be anything but positive. Obviously you'd have to remove the whole crackpot regime, and it would be a far more complicated scenario- but there's no reason why arresting the man can't be within that scenario.

    Your non-interventionist attitude is all very noble, but unfortunately, it has no bearing on reality. Nation states do not sit by and let each other get on with it. As for successful Western intervention, try the Second World War, the Bosnian war and the Libyan revolution last year for reference.
    • 9 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    Why don't we just ARREST the most evil war criminal on the planet
    Coz we'd be arresting our own erstwhile PM Blair, and our Heads of State of our 'allies' the US and "Israel".
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by I Persia I)
    Oh Christ, I'm sorry there was another account with a similar name with a lot of African-related posts and I thought that was you. Sorry my bad!
    No problemo, I was getting confused lol
    • 6 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by VeniViciVidi)
    Make a video called 'Bashir 2012'
    Upload to youtube
    ????
    Masturbate in public
    Profit
    Fixed
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by navarre)
    Yes, Sudan will be a better place. I'm not sure how removing a genocidal maniac at war with his people could fail to be anything but positive. Obviously you'd have to remove the whole crackpot regime, and it would be a far more complicated scenario- but there's no reason why arresting the man can't be within that scenario.

    Your non-interventionist attitude is all very noble, but unfortunately, it has no bearing on reality. Nation states do not sit by and let each other get on with it. As for successful Western intervention, try the Second World War, the Bosnian war and the Libyan revolution last year for reference.
    Sudan isn't a real country. It's a set of borders drawn on a map by colonial overlords dividing up the land. (Ever wonder why the borders are straight lines in African countries?) It is a melting pot of tribal groups that simply don't see themselves as a united whole. If you remove a regime sympathetic to one tribal group, what do you replace it with? Do you try again with a leader from the largest ethnic minority, or do you flip it on its head and make the oppressed the opressor? Either way, the killing continues.

    Over 60 000 000 people were killed in the second world war. You are insane if you think that is a successful intervention. The Bosnian Civil war involved a bombing campaign that killed hundreds of civilians, leaving a broken country behind while NATO went home wearing medals.

    Libya? Really? You think NATO's intervention in Libya was charity? No, it was to instil a West-friendly government to gain control of the oil fields. Why, if the West was in the business of helping out it's international neighbours, have we not intervened in Syria!?
    • 4 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    I don't think turning it into a contest ("joke causes of lesser actors" etc) is a good way to help the people of Sudan.
    • 10 followers
    Online

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by CyclopsRock)
    I don't think turning it into a contest ("joke causes of lesser actors" etc) is a good way to help the people of Sudan.
    I think the people of Sudan unanimously agree that George Clooney is a better actor than Sean Penn.
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by I Persia I)
    I think the people of Sudan unanimously agree that George Clooney is a better actor than Sean Penn.
    Sean Penn has won Oscars. Although yes, he's an idiot.

    Clooney>Penn on humanitarian stuff.
    Penn>Clooney on acting.
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    er, omar al bashir is not the best president in the world, but he definitley is not what the media depicts. The war between the north and the south was mainly because of the southerners. They had a different culture, different language, and lets face it Sudan was the biggest country in Africa [it could fit the 6 largest european countries into it!]. since sudan is so poor, its hard for the goverment to manage funding for the whole region, so they could only build step by step and help grow the capital city Khartoum first! ive been to khartoum, and its getting better, but needs SO much work, its unreal!. How can they help those who live so far away when they cant even help those outside their doorstep.

    So obviously the rest of the people outside the capital felt neglected, and wanted to their own country, since they felt they had nothing in common with the north and werent looked after right. Omar Al bashir did not want a split!, he wanted a united Sudan, but the people have spoken. The northerners didnt mind, but preferred to stay united. And the southerners ALL wanted to separated, so much to everyones shock, Omar Al Bashir AGREED. Cause he knew he couldnt take care of them, and the differences were at large, so what was the point in forcing people to be under his law, if they didnt want it. Everyone in the north and South were happy with the decision. And still are. The whole oil thing is obviously a problem, but i really dont think this is Bashirs doing. This is just rebel armys who have nothing better to do than to go and kill and rape for the fun of it. There is no hidden agenda,. Both parties have signed contracts, and set strict rules. what you see going on in sudan is more of a Tribe vs. Tribe kinda fight for territory.

    Dont believe the media hype. Just cause you saw a footage of george clooney in the nuba area with poor african kids running away from something, doesnt mean 'Omar Al Bashir' is behind all this. there are so many rebel groups, and who knows what they are fighting for. Fighting over that village which sits on the border is pointless, and doesnt mean either of them will get the oil. Cos the Oil was found by the northerners with their machines, and even though its in the South it needs to go through the North in order for them to outsource.

    If we're going to go labelling people such as Bashir, and kony as war criminals, then Bush should be right up on that list too.
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Reuters) - Sudanese warplanes bombed a disputed oil-producing border town seized by South Sudan this week, the southern state said on Saturday, in an escalation of border fighting that has edged the two countries closer to a full-blown war.

    South Sudanese troops wrested control of the disputed Heglig oilfield from Sudan on Tuesday, prompting widespread condemnation from global powers and vows of retaliation from Khartoum.

    The fighting has brought the former civil war foes closer to a resumption of full-blown conflict than at any time since the south seceded in July, and struck a blow to Sudan's already struggling economy.

    The Sudanese army said it entered the Heglig region on Saturday and was fighting South Sudan's forces a few kilometers (miles) from the oilfield, which is vital to Sudan's economy because it produced about half of the country's 115,000 barrel-a-day crude oil output.

    "We are now in Heglig region a few kilometers from Heglig town and oilfield," Sudan's military spokesman Al-Sawarmi Khalid told reporters in Khartoum, adding that fighting was continuing.

    He said the Sudanese army's immediate aim was not to enter Heglig town but to destroy the South's "war machine."

    But Juba - which says it will withdraw from Heglig only if the United Nations deploys forces to monitor a ceasefire - dismissed the claims as "wishful thinking" and said the South's army (SPLA) was still in control of the town.

    "They are trying to convince their public they are making progress," South Sudan's military spokesman Philip Aguer said, estimating that Khartoum's forces were still at least 30 kilometers (19 miles) from Heglig town.

    Limited access to the remote border region makes it difficult to independently verify claims from both sides.

    Aguer said Sudan's military attacked Heglig town with military aircraft earlier on Saturday, and he accused the north of carrying out airstrikes south of the border, including a strike in Bentiu in Unity state he said killed five civilians.

    "Heglig itself was bombed many times today, and the surroundings of Heglig were bombed," he said.

    Khartoum denied bombing South Sudan's territory.

    ECONOMIC TROUBLE

    Both Sudan and South Sudan claim Heglig, which many southerners refer to as Panthou.

    South Sudan's Information Minister Barnaba Marial Benjamin earlier said the SPLA had repulsed an attack by Sudan's armed forces late on Friday.

    "They tried to attack our positions around 40 milesnorth of Heglig last night but it was contained," he said. Aguer said the SPLA destroyed two Sudanese T-72 tanks in the fighting.

    Khalid, the Sudanese military spokesman, denied that claim as well, saying Khartoum's forces were much closer to Heglig.

    Oil production has now stopped at Heglig, officials say.

    The Sudanese pound hit a historic low on the Khartoum black market on Saturday as people fearing the economic fallout of the conflict rushed to convert savings into dollars, money traders said.

    Sudan already had lost about three quarters of its oil output when South Sudan seceded, driving up the cost of imports and fuelling food inflation.

    Landlocked South Sudan shut down its own output - about 350,000 barrels a day - in January after failing to agree how much it should pay to export crude via pipelines and other infrastructure in Sudan.

    The crisis has all but killed hopes that the two countries will be able to reach a swift agreement on partition-related issues through African Union-brokered talks. Khartoum pulled out of the negotiations after the south seized Heglig.

    Since the South voted for independence from Sudan last year, the two sides have failed to resolve issues including the position of the 1,800-km (1,200-mile) border, division of the national debt and status of citizens in each other's territory.

    The two sides fought one of Africa's longest and deadliest civil conflicts. Some 2 million people died in the war, rooted in disputes over ideology, religion, ethnicity and oil.

    (Additional reporting and writing by Alexander Dziadosz; Editing by Pascal Fletcher)
    Seems to me the recent fighting has been instigated by the South, by illegally occupying Heglig. Seems bizarre that so soon after you've got your own state you would try to assemble your army to fight another bloody war with the north. I think its the south that should be condemned for this, and withdraw immediately. The last thing they need is another civil war so the dispute over borders should be resolved without violence. And there's little to suggest this is an example of the north out to murder southerners. Occupying Heglig has stalled oil production and hit an already weakened economy. Why wouldn't the north use force in this case?
    • Thread Starter
    • 7 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by HoneyFlux)
    er, omar al bashir is not the best president in the world, but he definitley is not what the media depicts. The war between the north and the south was mainly because of the southerners. They had a different culture, different language, and lets face it Sudan was the biggest country in Africa [it could fit the 6 largest european countries into it!]. since sudan is so poor, its hard for the goverment to manage funding for the whole region, so they could only build step by step and help grow the capital city Khartoum first! ive been to khartoum, and its getting better, but needs SO much work, its unreal!. How can they help those who live so far away when they cant even help those outside their doorstep.

    So obviously the rest of the people outside the capital felt neglected, and wanted to their own country, since they felt they had nothing in common with the north and werent looked after right. Omar Al bashir did not want a split!, he wanted a united Sudan, but the people have spoken. The northerners didnt mind, but preferred to stay united. And the southerners ALL wanted to separated, so much to everyones shock, Omar Al Bashir AGREED. Cause he knew he couldnt take care of them, and the differences were at large, so what was the point in forcing people to be under his law, if they didnt want it. Everyone in the north and South were happy with the decision. And still are. The whole oil thing is obviously a problem, but i really dont think this is Bashirs doing. This is just rebel armys who have nothing better to do than to go and kill and rape for the fun of it. There is no hidden agenda,. Both parties have signed contracts, and set strict rules. what you see going on in sudan is more of a Tribe vs. Tribe kinda fight for territory.

    Dont believe the media hype.
    Just cause you saw a footage of george clooney in the nuba area with poor african kids running away from something, doesnt mean 'Omar Al Bashir' is behind all this. there are so many rebel groups, and who knows what they are fighting for. Fighting over that village which sits on the border is pointless, and doesnt mean either of them will get the oil. Cos the Oil was found by the northerners with their machines, and even though its in the South it needs to go through the North in order for them to outsource.

    If we're going to go labelling people such as Bashir, and kony as war criminals, then Bush should be right up on that list too.
    Media hype??? What media hype? The media rarely cover the genocide in Sudan at all. The programme I linked in my OP is one of the very few programmes that even documents the genocide of the Nuba people in southern Sudan.

    In case you're not aware, al-Bashir is the President of Sudan. I don't mean president in the sense of US President- I mean it in the sense of an absolutist, dictatorial maniac with no limits on his power. If he wanted the bombing on civilians to stop, it's simply an order signed on a bit of paper away.

    Also, do you really think that just because there are rebel armies in the south, this justifies thousands of deaths of civilians simply because they happen to live in the area? Or do you think that a few rebels with AK-47s should be met with a state sponsored famine that is going to kill thousands?
    • 17 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    Huh... I thought this was going to be about Bush.

Reply

Submit reply

Register

Thanks for posting! You just need to create an account in order to submit the post
  1. this can't be left blank
    that username has been taken, please choose another Forgotten your password?
  2. this can't be left blank
    this email is already registered. Forgotten your password?
  3. this can't be left blank

    6 characters or longer with both numbers and letters is safer

  4. this can't be left empty
    your full birthday is required
  1. By joining you agree to our Ts and Cs, privacy policy and site rules

  2. Slide to join now Processing…

Updated: April 23, 2012
New on TSR

GCSE mocks revision

Talk study tips this weekend

Article updates
Useful resources
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.