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Alleged rape by two footballers, woman too drunk to remember anything

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    (Original post by tehFrance)
    It was recorded and apparently there was hotel receptionist that got suspicious.

    If she was as drunk as I have read how could she have put up a struggle? I personally see it as rape.
    If it was recorded, that will conclusively prove whether it was rape one way or the other. The receptionist's suspicions are suspicions, not enough to convict someone.

    The question that needs to be answered is was she too drunk to consent? R v Bree states that drunken consent is still consent. It held that just because you don't remember something, that doesn't mean you are incapable of consenting, in fact it harms the prosecution. There is a point at which you are too drunk to consent, and for a conviction it will have to be proved beyond reasonable doubt that she was beyond the point at which she was capable of consenting.
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    (Original post by alex92100)
    The definition of rape in the Sexual Offences Act 2003 was carefully considered before it's enactment in a report. The report stated that the traditional definition of rape is a man penetrating an orifice without consent. I think we can agree, a man forcibly penetrating someone with his penis is pretty much the worse thing bar kill that you can do to a person, the physical and psychological effects are not even worth thinking about.

    Now consider a woman (or a man) putting a man's penis in her mouth without consent. Yes, probably not a nice experience if you don't consent, however the physical impact is much less. Being penetrated is a violation of your body, it is much worse than someone putting a body part of yours in their mouth. Why should a penis be any different to someone's nipple? Should that count as rape? By hugely broadening the definition of rape to things that are a lot less serious, you detract from the seriousness of the term rape. It's akin to calling everyone who kills someone a murderer, when in reality, there is a distinction between the more serious kind of killing (murder), and the less serious kind of killing (manslaughter). Murder is the worst form of homicide you can commit, just like rape is the worst kind of sexual offence you can commit.

    To your second point, it is unfair labelling because you are throwing together everyone who commits a sexual offence into the same boat. Feeling someone's breast is a sexual accost that isn't consented to, but they clearly should be called the same as someone who rapes someone.
    Fair play.
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    (Original post by AlmostChicGeek)
    Do you feel taken advantage of? Were you absolutely paralytic, that the girl advised someone else to keep an eye on you after she had sex with you, and then left? Therefore acknowledging that you were in no fit state to look after yourself, and by extension clearly didn't really know what you were doing?
    Well I don't know I can't remember but to get to that point I must have been very drunk when I agreed to have sex with her. So in a way yes she has used my drunken state and took advantage of me but you can't blame her because I said yes and agreed to have sex with her when drunk so to punish her would be absoloutley ridiculous and unfair. I can guarentee if I had went to the police station that day and explained what had happened they would have told me to go away. People who commit crimes when completley out of it on alcohol are still held as responsile as a non drunk so this girl should take responsiblity for saying yes when drunk.

    If she can't even remember if she had agreed to have sex or not then they shouldn't be prosecuted just because she feels ashamed of herself for getting in a spit roast. If they did rape her and she said no even when drunk or if they spiked her drink it's different but there is no evidence of this she just feels guilt over having a threesome you can't prosecute the men unless there is other evidence i.e CCTV of them spiking her drink or dragging her away.

    So maybe they did rape her but if there is no evidence then you can't prosecute them just incase they did rape her. Yes they took advantage of her but men and women do that all the time up and down the country.
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    She is probably yelling rape because if she gets pregnant she will have someone to blame it on and some alimony payments. I think the commonly known term is GOLD-DIGGA!
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    This kind of thing almost certainly happens every weekend, and all summer in places like Magaluf, Benidorm, Malia......

    I personally know two girls who have had similair experiences. One said she woke up just after, and thinks it was rape.

    The other, woke up the next morning, says she was spiked, and doesn't remember a thing.

    Now I just think both of them, got a little bit too drunk, and had sex with some random, regretted it, and thought wow, I would never do something like this, I must of been spiked and raped.

    For me, the point at which this woman consented, is when she decided to go back to the hotel with the guy. Just picture it, 19 year old drunk female meets a FOOTBALLER, and he is staying in a hotel down the road, and is willing to take her back.......... Almost certain 80% of 19-21 year old girls on a night out would jump at the chance.

    And when does anyone ever consent to sex with a YES and NO question, haha, don't make me laugh.

    I would say these men took advantage of a drunken woman, but they are not rapists. Sleazy, yes, rapists, definitely not.

    It will get thrown out.
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    Guilty
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    Evans sent down, McDonald cleared, don't really see how that works?
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    (Original post by alex92100)
    Evans sent down, McDonald cleared, don't really see how that works?
    I thought the same, McDonald was the one who has sex with her first.

    Does a full report ever come out of court cases like this?
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    (Original post by arichmond64)
    I thought the same, McDonald was the one who has sex with her first.

    Does a full report ever come out of court cases like this?
    It will be in time, I've been looking for it but it isn't out yet.

    Very confused if I'm honest, either the BBC hasn't reported all the facts (very possible) or the judge has directed the jury incorrectly, because from the BBC news report I cannot see how it was proved beyond reasonable doubt that the woman did not consent.
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    (Original post by WhatTheFunk)
    she was 'too drunk to consent'

    That is worrying

    Without hating to much and knowing a limited amount about the case but the law sides with women so much more in these cases, maybe because of high profile cases when wolf as been shouted. Rape is still wrong and bad no matter what

    Big name stars seem to get away with this all the time like Ribery, Benzema and Govou have all had it away with underage prostitute and got away
    Its not really the same as an underage prostitute though.

    It is a little worrying, I don't see how you can be "too drunk" to consent, does that mean, she did consent, but it wasn't valid.

    Its amazing how bad alcohol really is.
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    (Original post by arichmond64)
    Its not really the same as an underage prostitute though.

    It is a little worrying, I don't see how you can be "too drunk" to consent, does that mean, she did consent, but it wasn't valid.

    Its amazing how bad alcohol really is.
    If she was unconcious the fair enough, but if she was just drunk but still awake/aware then i can't see how he can be proven guilty beyond all reasonable doubt. Also it seems a bit funny the other guy was let off.
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    She consented to drinking too much alcohol so its her own fault.
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    I haven't been following the whole thing so don't know all the ins and outs (excuse the pun) but it seems very harsh. I'm leaning towards saying it's the woman's responsibiliy to control herself, rather than getting monumentally wasted, shagging people and then regretting it.
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    Can't fathom how they both got their dicks wet but one is guilty and the other one cleared.
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    (Original post by HolliAnnaBella)
    I'm just wondering what other people's views on case this are?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-n...wales-17677969

    I am absolutely not of the opinion that a drunk woman can bring rape upon herself. However, I wonder what the outcome of this trial will be, if the woman cannot remember ANYTHING then how can the men be charged with rape when there is every possibility that she consented and forgot. I feel the men are somewhat in the wrong for having sex with a girl who was clearly inebriated but sometimes it's difficult to judge a person's level of intoxication!

    I really feel for the girl and hope she will be able to move on but I just wonder how viable everyone else considers her case to be??
    It is a very big issue these days. Because when alcohol is involved it's hard to actually work out what may of happened. However, 3 thing must be proved, for a case to be classed as rape, those are: That the sexual intercourse took place, That it was in fact against the woman's will, and the defendant knew she did not consent or was reckless as to whether or not she consented.

    As the woman in this case can not remember, she can not prove it was against her will, however, if this tape that was attempted to be made is still present, than this will be looked upon as evidence.
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    (Original post by walterwhite123)
    The key word there is 'probably'. That is not enough to find someone guilty beyond reasonable doubt.
    this is why so many rapists get away because of your attitude. its quite horrible really. hopefully you get some understanding and life experience behind you before you become lawyer.
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    (Original post by Dominic101)
    She consented to drinking too much alcohol so its her own fault.
    no it isnt drinking is lawful rape isnt. having sex with someone who cannot consent is rape and is illegal it is the rapists fault. why is it seeming to be the males on here who are blaming the woman makes me ashamed to be a man.
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    I am absolutely baffled as to how one can get away, and the other not!
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    (Original post by harmony_01)
    in my opinion- all should be locked up.
    your opinion is disgusting as is most on here. yeh lets start locking up drunk women who get raped we can be more like Afganistan then. brilliant. what kind of people post on this forum i do wonder. woeful to say the least
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    (Original post by badcheesecrispy)
    no it isnt drinking is lawful rape isnt. having sex with someone who cannot consent is rape and is illegal it is the rapists fault. why is it seeming to be the males on here who are blaming the woman makes me ashamed to be a man.
    It's the fact that if she was too drunk to consent how can one be guilty and the other innocent if they both had sex with her. They both claimed ched asked to join in and she said yes, so either we are missing something huge here, or this "she is too drunk to consent" is a huge cop-out.

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