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Want to study at US Ivy League but already doing a degree (British student)...

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Going to the USA for a Master's will be quite impractical, in my opinion. It costs way too much (around 50k USD) and I don't recall seeing any of the "International Development" master's degrees (or related courses) to be funded!

Usually, for subjects like physics, one is given a tuition waiver for the duration of the PhD program (which includes some courses for a year or two, depending on where one is attending) and is given a job as a research or teaching assistant. The job doesn't pay too well but it's enough to live on and it's convenient in the sense that you're still at the university and can switch between that and your own studying/work. You should check if the PhD programs are funded, whether you can apply directly after your BA and what you should be doing to stand a chance to get in. In general, departments looking PhD candidates look for people who can do research. Just saying you're interested is not enough because you may well hate it or be terrible at it and that point, they've already spent a fair bit of time and money on you! So, you should have some relevant experience. It's also harder for international students.

Again, all of this assumes that the PhD is funded and the overall process is similar to those in science.

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Depending on your income bracket, it might be worth your while to apply for college for entry in the fall of 2013. That is what I'm doing - if I get in, I'll start at 20. I have very diverse interests and their educational model will allow me to study whatever I want to. I would like to do something quantitative and eventually work in education/development and double majoring in science and politics or international studies/development is absolutely possible, if one has enough time. If not double majoring, then taking a few courses along the way.

Anyway, there are the need-blind and need-aware colleges. (not "needs", as some people here repeatedly say - gets on my nerves!) Then, there are colleges that are committed to meeting the full need, while there are others who cannot afford or are not willing to do that. The latter can usually meet part of or none of the need. Now, what you want, is a college who can meet your full need. You may consider ones which are willing to provide aid for part of the cost as well - if you can afford that much. "Need" is met with grant money (not to be repaid), loans or work-study on campus. The higher ranked colleges, usually the ones with much more money, seem to offer financial aid in the form of grants only.

There are also scholarships but these are based on merit (unless mentioned otherwise - in which case, they'd just be like financial aid except that the school calls it "scholarship"! I've rarely seen such things and they were at schools who had very limited aid for international students). At the need-blind and full-need colleges (six of 'em), it doesn't matter how much you can pay, as it won't be factored in the admissions decision, and if you're accepted your financial need will be met. At the need-aware, full-need (much more than 6!) colleges, your ability to pay may weigh against or for your favour, depending on how much it is. We don't know what goes on in the admissions office but consider this (hypothetical) situation:

There are two international applicants. The college, while committed to meeting the full need of all admitted students, is need-aware.

Both applicants are equally desirable but one of them can afford to pay more. In that case, the one who needs less financial aid will be more likely to be accepted.

As for which colleges provide aid, you should look on individual websites. A good place to start would be the top 50 colleges, including the "liberal arts colleges". A few examples would be: Vassar, Williams, Wellesley, Mt. Holyoke (these two are girls only but apparently, they give out a lot of aid to foreigners!) and Amherst.

Reply 21

swbp

Original post by ritchie888

Oh stop, you!

You can do it too. So, do it!

I'm doing my BA at Sussex, but hoping to do my postgraduate at LSE or maybe UC Berkeley. Fingers crossed :smile:

Reply 22

MartinMorrison

swbp check if Sussex offers exchanges with US universities in your 2nd year. I was nominated to go to Caltech and UPenn for my third year. I think if you go on one of those and then apply for postgrad in the US, having good grades from that year abroad should count for something at least...

Reply 23

swbp

Original post by MartinMorrison

Sussex do offer exchanges to the US, in 3rd year (only a term though). The links are brilliant, including UC Berkeley, UPENN, Georgetown, UCLA, Washington in St Louis, UNC etc. However spaces are offered to American Studies students first, obviously as it is pretty important for their course, so I probably wont have a shot at getting an exchange at any of those universities. However after further research, I really like the look of UT at Austin, UCSB, Colorado at Boulder and Washington university in Seattle. I am DESPERATE to study in the US :smile:

Reply 24

hippobluecampe

Original post by karousel

I'd like to do a second bachelors :smile:

That would be a complete waste of time. If you enjoy studying rather than doing a bachelor's you can do Certificate programmes or postgraduate. I'm sure employers would rather employ someone with a bachelor and a master rather than 2 bachelor degrees. To be competitive you need to progress. Just my 2 cents :smile:

Reply 25

hippobluecampe

Original post by ritchie888

Oh good, another retard.

You know in The Sims where you'd enter a code and you'd get additional cash and you wouldn't have to get a job? Yeah, we don't live in The Sims, we live in the real world.

Let's do some math. With the current student fees for undergraduate studies you're looking at £9,000 a year, lets say you're doing a bachelors, so £27,000 student loan, plus whatever they give you per year for accommodation, let's add another £3,000pa for that, you're looking at £35,000 student loans for your first degree.

But it's ok, because the world we live in is made of chocolate and rainbows, **** it, let's do another degree just because we just love studying. YAY!

Math again, quick Google tells me that 'American University Washington' charges $18,777 per semester. I'm not going to lie and tell you I know how many semesters there are in a year, I'd gamble at three. So, excluding living costs this time as I couldn't even guess, you're looking at another $225,324 for a four year course, as I believe American degrees are slightly longer. In English that's £140,626.50 at today rate, add that to our current £35k, that's a grand total of £175,626.50 just because we love studying so much.

You know what I like? Travelling.
You know what I'm not doing constantly because I 'enjoy travelling just for travellings sake'? Travelling. Because I'm a grown up in the real world.

Don't post a load of **** about how it's ok to study several bachelor level degrees just because it's fun and what you enjoy. I too enjoy studying. That's why I did a masters following my bachelors, and now a PhD. You know why I didn't do another bachelors? Because it's stupid, as I originally said. People need to take responsibility and do what's right; not what's fun.

Assuming OPs family is rich and don't have any financial worries, doing a 2nd bachelors would still be a waste of time. Especially in America where most undergraduate courses are 4 years in duration and there are a lot of compulsory unnecessary electives that you need to take.

I think if OP really is interested in studying different subjects maybe she should consider a double degree then progress to Masters, or skip UK uni altogether and apply for undergrad in the States.

If she wants to save time, go to an extension school. Many ivy league schools offer Continuing Education, Harvard is one of them. I am actually going to UC Berkeley in the summer after having completed ACCA. I think that would be more enjoyable while at the same time challenge your creativity and intellectual.

Not trying to insult OPs opinion, but I think its important that you progress in life and not stay in the same spot for years.

Reply 26

MartinMorrison

Original post by swbp

Are you sure American Studies don't have a separate exchange program? If it is a direct part of their program it will be a departmental exchange and their admissions are separate from the international exchange program. International Exchange programs don't really prioritise people because their course requires it or it is beneficial to a specific course - if it is that important then it would be part of the degree. It's almost always based on marks. I just got accepted by UPenn 5 mins ago for a year long 3rd year exchange. This will be the 2nd exchange I go on. For both of these exchanges I was not allowed to apply, but in both cases I argued with international offices until I was allowed to submit an application, and both times I was ranked highly and was allowed any pick of exchange partner. All I had were A's, I never wrote any fancy essays and I've never played a sport in my life.

Exchange programs are REALLY subjective and informal. If you are determined enough rules can be changed more easily than normal, and at the end of the day you'll get alot out of it. If it really is the case that American Studies students are prioritised (which I am sure isn't the case), then COMPLAIN! Just keep at it and I swear they will back down. I was the first student at both my universities to be allowed to bend rules to get into the exchange programs, and both required complete changes in formal written rules. I just whined until they got sick of me and let me apply, and then as long as you have high marks you end up going to the top unis they offer...

Reply 27

swbp

Original post by MartinMorrison

Doing a second bachelors is not stupid. Nor is doing a third etc. Don't let anyone else tell you what 'progress' is in your own life! Some people want to do multiple degrees and that is fine. I know two people just completing their 2nd degree, one doing his second one at MIT and the other Oxford. Studying totally different subjects. To them they are definitely not 'staying in the same spot for years' and it is possible to secure funding for second degrees. Some PHD programs (UCSD) do recognise two 3 year bachelors in place of longer study if students do not have traditional US undergrads. If there is something you could spend money on, more education is far from the worse thing. I would pay for my child's second degree rather than buy them a fancier car any day of the week.

Are you sure American Studies don't have a separate exchange program? If it is a direct part of their program it will be a departmental exchange and their admissions are separate from the international exchange program. International Exchange programs don't really prioritise people because their course requires it or it is beneficial to a specific course - if it is that important then it would be part of the degree. It's almost always based on marks. I just got accepted by UPenn 5 mins ago for a year long 3rd year exchange. This will be the 2nd exchange I go on. For both of these exchanges I was not allowed to apply, but in both cases I argued with international offices until I was allowed to submit an application, and both times I was ranked highly and was allowed any pick of exchange partner. All I had were A's, I never wrote any fancy essays and I've never played a sport in my life.

Exchange programs are REALLY subjective and informal. If you are determined enough rules can be changed more easily than normal, and at the end of the day you'll get alot out of it. If it really is the case that American Studies students are prioritised (which I am sure isn't the case), then COMPLAIN! Just keep at it and I swear they will back down. I was the first student at both my universities to be allowed to bend rules to get into the exchange programs, and both required complete changes in formal written rules. I just whined until they got sick of me and let me apply, and then as long as you have high marks you end up going to the top unis they offer...

Moaning probably would help :smile:

And unfortunately American Studies students are prioritised - I heard it from the horse's mouth. When I told the study abroad team I was considering UCLA they said that my chances of exchanging to LA for a semester were slim, as they only have a limited number of spaces and they go very quickly.

In all honesty I don't really mind where i end up - I just want to experience American culture anywhere I can. Recently however University of Toronto has looked really appealing. It has a collegiate system which I love the idea of, plus it's an awesome city.

Reply 28

username839699

Original post by MartinMorrison

MIT does not admit students for "second bachelor's degrees". Your friend is likely doing a postgraduate course.

Besides, do you realise that "working towards multiple bachelor's degrees" is not the only way to "more education"? A good library and a study group would work just as well. In fact, thanks to the Open Culture, lots of interesting things are happening. MIT, with the OCW Scholar, allow students to have their own study groups. These courses have their own sets of lecture notes accompanying each lecture and there is a clearly laid out syllabus for each course! The cool thing is one can be part of an online study group. In a few years, MITx will have even more courses!

"More education" does not justify the cost of a second undergraduate degree. Especially in America, where funding for international students is very, very limited.

Reply 29

Ray_Han

As far as postgraduate study in the US goes, to my knowledge it is largely PhD and research focused. Although I can only speak for my own subject here, economics, instead of doing a masters and PhD as in the UK, American students progress straight from bachelors to a 5 year PhD programme, where the first two years will be taught and then you move on to the research. All the things about ECs can be thrown out of the window for postgrad, they only care about your academics and connections, and they have to really be outstanding if you are thinking of Harvard, MIT, Princeton, e.t.c. As in it would be extremely difficult for me to get in from Cambridge undergrad without doing a masters degree and coming near the top of the class, doing assistant research stuff and building a good relationship with the academic staff so they can write you stellar letters of recommendation. This could be different for a humanities subject, but I'm guessing PhDs and funding (esp. funding) are even more difficult to get for humanities.
The other option is a masters, which tend to be more applied and lack funding, but this would tie in well with your interests in development. However, you would probably need to get at least a couple of years of fieldwork or relevant work experience. Plus if you work for the right firm, or the right policy department/think tank, they might fund you through such a programme if you return to work for them. Getting experience is something you can start doing at university, but you probably have a good five years before you can think of applying to such programmes. If you are really interested in doing this though, it's good you are thinking about it at this stage.

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 30

geetar

Prepare to have your bank account raped.

Reply 31

Jeester

Original post by karousel

I begin my degree at Sussex university in September this year and I'm really looking forward to it. I didn't apply to any universities outside Sussex and Brighton and sometimes this leaves me wondering "what if..." because I've achieved Distinction in every module of every unit so far.

If I was to study at Sussex and obtain a first (ambitious but intending to work my fingers to the bone over the next three years), what are the chances of being accepted by an Ivy League school in the US afterwards ?

I realise they're pretty much the same level but I'd like to study in a country different to my own. I also won't be able to afford it for a few years and so studying in the meantime seems like the best option. Thoughts ??

Just to get this straight...
You did a BTEC?
Forget about it. Everyone I know who's done a BTEC on my course is either failing this year or has dropped out. You will not be able to keep up or cope. Stick with what you've got and try to succeed at that.
If you do then apply to Ivy League for post grad thingies.

Reply 32

RocknRap

Original post by Jeester

^ Harsh words

But realistically OP, distinctions in BTECs =/= Ivy League standard. Hell, distinctions in BTECs aren't even on the same level as A*'s at A-level. Given that Ivy League schools could fill all their places with perfect SAT students (or equivalently straight A*A*A*+ students), I wouldn't pin your hopes on this...