Graduates - post here if your work and jobs so far are not as you expected or hoped
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Original post by M1011
Evidently by the negs my comment didn't go down well with some language students! Ahh well, lets have a debate anyway 
Having read the rest, I think we agree on more than I originally thought, so this might not be much of a debate unfortunately
My query is why would you do a degree in it? For me, a degree is supposed to give you specialist knowledge. I can't help but question how specialist a language degree can really be if you most likely can't speak it as well as the population of that country by the end of the course. I personally don't see why people who specialise in a second language should need to do a degree in it, surely you should just be able to do classes if necessary and then some sort of professional qualification to show your proficiency with the language?
I guess I can work with the idea that a degree is valuable for a student that learns a language from scratch through education (so if you begin in secondary school and continue on to degree level). Then it shows your ability to learn I guess, and similar transferable skills to most other degrees. However, in my experience, the majority of people doing a foreign language seem to already speak the language before they even begin (e.g. the post I originally quoted). A popular example seems to be Chinese people doing a degree in Mandarin, despite the fact they already speak it at home to their family. I fail to see the value in the degree in cases like this, as that person appears to have chosen to study something they already know simply to get an easy degree.
I guess I can work with the idea that a degree is valuable for a student that learns a language from scratch through education (so if you begin in secondary school and continue on to degree level). Then it shows your ability to learn I guess, and similar transferable skills to most other degrees. However, in my experience, the majority of people doing a foreign language seem to already speak the language before they even begin (e.g. the post I originally quoted). A popular example seems to be Chinese people doing a degree in Mandarin, despite the fact they already speak it at home to their family. I fail to see the value in the degree in cases like this, as that person appears to have chosen to study something they already know simply to get an easy degree.
First off, I don't understand why people would study their native language as a foreign language at degree level either, but these people are very much the exception rather than the norm afaik. Most people take the GCSE, A Level degree route or take up a language from scratch at uni.
I do see your point about a degree not being necessary to learn or speak a language (personally I followed the language courses plus qualification route for French, instead of studying it at degree level). However, a languages degree isn't just about being able to have a conversation in the language. Only around 1/3 of the degree modules are actual language learning. The syllabus is very varied, with modules on history, literature, politics, film, economics... So languages grads have the research and essay-writing skills than an arts grad would have, plus foreign language skills. Obviously the ideal would be someone who spoke perfect Mandarin and had an Economics degree, or a bilingual English-Russian speaker that studied Law, but since those privileged people are few are far between, the compromise is a languages degree.
Another advantage is the year abroad, where language students put their skills into practice and either get professional experience at an international company or study at a foreign university (which gives them another opportunity to study things outside their field).
So at the end, they have the necessary skills for specialised careers where language skills are essential (interpreting, translating and teaching) as well as other more general grad schemes and so on which everyone has a shot at.
Obviously I'm biased, and I'm not trying to argue that languages are the best degree out there, but certainly as worthwhile as any other degree than doesn't have a definite job lined up at the end (medicine etc) and arguably more so in some cases.
Original post by Nomes89
Like I said I wasn't trying to attack, I wouldn't assume you got a 2:2 through lack of effort but employers could well view it that way. My friend also got a 2:2 from a top ten uni in a language degree and didn't find it 'easy' although she has managed to find a job - the language has been the main factor though because she can speak it to a native level.
These days you have to have that something 'extra'. And even when you do, in the end it boils down to whether or not the interviewer gets a good impression - something which is extremely subjective.
These days you have to have that something 'extra'. And even when you do, in the end it boils down to whether or not the interviewer gets a good impression - something which is extremely subjective.
May I ask which language your friend speaks and where she now works/in what type of field she works?
Original post by M1011
Evidently by the negs my comment didn't go down well with some language students! Ahh well, lets have a debate anyway
First off, to be clear I'm not saying it's an easy degree. I'm awful at languages so I certainly don't consider it to be an easy choice. Secondly, I don't deny the value of speaking a second language by any means. It's clearly a valuable skill to have. Just wanted to be clear on those two points.
My query is why would you do a degree in it? For me, a degree is supposed to give you specialist knowledge. I can't help but question how specialist a language degree can really be if you most likely can't speak it as well as the population of that country by the end of the course. I personally don't see why people who specialise in a second language should need to do a degree in it, surely you should just be able to do classes if necessary and then some sort of professional qualification to show your proficiency with the language?
I guess I can work with the idea that a degree is valuable for a student that learns a language from scratch through education (so if you begin in secondary school and continue on to degree level). Then it shows your ability to learn I guess, and similar transferable skills to most other degrees. However, in my experience, the majority of people doing a foreign language seem to already speak the language before they even begin (e.g. the post I originally quoted). A popular example seems to be Chinese people doing a degree in Mandarin, despite the fact they already speak it at home to their family. I fail to see the value in the degree in cases like this, as that person appears to have chosen to study something they already know simply to get an easy degree.
First off, to be clear I'm not saying it's an easy degree. I'm awful at languages so I certainly don't consider it to be an easy choice. Secondly, I don't deny the value of speaking a second language by any means. It's clearly a valuable skill to have. Just wanted to be clear on those two points.
My query is why would you do a degree in it? For me, a degree is supposed to give you specialist knowledge. I can't help but question how specialist a language degree can really be if you most likely can't speak it as well as the population of that country by the end of the course. I personally don't see why people who specialise in a second language should need to do a degree in it, surely you should just be able to do classes if necessary and then some sort of professional qualification to show your proficiency with the language?
I guess I can work with the idea that a degree is valuable for a student that learns a language from scratch through education (so if you begin in secondary school and continue on to degree level). Then it shows your ability to learn I guess, and similar transferable skills to most other degrees. However, in my experience, the majority of people doing a foreign language seem to already speak the language before they even begin (e.g. the post I originally quoted). A popular example seems to be Chinese people doing a degree in Mandarin, despite the fact they already speak it at home to their family. I fail to see the value in the degree in cases like this, as that person appears to have chosen to study something they already know simply to get an easy degree.
I studied English
Original post by Jelkin
I studied English
You know that an English degree in England isn't about teaching you how to speak English...
Original post by Jelkin
I studied English
Original post by Mess.
You know that an English degree in England isn't about teaching you how to speak English...
This.
At the end of the day you get at university you get a month at Christmas, a month at Easter and 3 months over the summer minimum. Graduating with just a degree essentially says you've gashed away a year and a half on a three year degree.
Graduates I've spoken to and known for a while with decent CV fillers all walked into jobs, one of them skipped the two year graduate scheme at Rolls Royce PLC and went straight in, this was last summer. A few are in various positions at JLR, one single handedly designing the differential for the new F-Type in his second year of employment. Another skipped the graduate scheme at Mercedes AMG High Performance Powertrains. The list goes on.
Graduates I've spoken to and known for a while with decent CV fillers all walked into jobs, one of them skipped the two year graduate scheme at Rolls Royce PLC and went straight in, this was last summer. A few are in various positions at JLR, one single handedly designing the differential for the new F-Type in his second year of employment. Another skipped the graduate scheme at Mercedes AMG High Performance Powertrains. The list goes on.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by M1011
Evidently by the negs my comment didn't go down well with some language students! Ahh well, lets have a debate anyway
First off, to be clear I'm not saying it's an easy degree. I'm awful at languages so I certainly don't consider it to be an easy choice. Secondly, I don't deny the value of speaking a second language by any means. It's clearly a valuable skill to have. Just wanted to be clear on those two points.
My query is why would you do a degree in it? For me, a degree is supposed to give you specialist knowledge. I can't help but question how specialist a language degree can really be if you most likely can't speak it as well as the population of that country by the end of the course. I personally don't see why people who specialise in a second language should need to do a degree in it, surely you should just be able to do classes if necessary and then some sort of professional qualification to show your proficiency with the language?
I guess I can work with the idea that a degree is valuable for a student that learns a language from scratch through education (so if you begin in secondary school and continue on to degree level). Then it shows your ability to learn I guess, and similar transferable skills to most other degrees. However, in my experience, the majority of people doing a foreign language seem to already speak the language before they even begin (e.g. the post I originally quoted). A popular example seems to be Chinese people doing a degree in Mandarin, despite the fact they already speak it at home to their family. I fail to see the value in the degree in cases like this, as that person appears to have chosen to study something they already know simply to get an easy degree.
First off, to be clear I'm not saying it's an easy degree. I'm awful at languages so I certainly don't consider it to be an easy choice. Secondly, I don't deny the value of speaking a second language by any means. It's clearly a valuable skill to have. Just wanted to be clear on those two points.
My query is why would you do a degree in it? For me, a degree is supposed to give you specialist knowledge. I can't help but question how specialist a language degree can really be if you most likely can't speak it as well as the population of that country by the end of the course. I personally don't see why people who specialise in a second language should need to do a degree in it, surely you should just be able to do classes if necessary and then some sort of professional qualification to show your proficiency with the language?
I guess I can work with the idea that a degree is valuable for a student that learns a language from scratch through education (so if you begin in secondary school and continue on to degree level). Then it shows your ability to learn I guess, and similar transferable skills to most other degrees. However, in my experience, the majority of people doing a foreign language seem to already speak the language before they even begin (e.g. the post I originally quoted). A popular example seems to be Chinese people doing a degree in Mandarin, despite the fact they already speak it at home to their family. I fail to see the value in the degree in cases like this, as that person appears to have chosen to study something they already know simply to get an easy degree.
I don't disagree with anything you've said personally - you make fair points. Kinda sucks you got hit by the neg train but thats TSR for you... I do think languages - whether it be a degree taught or not, are more valuable than most degrees. To explain what I posted before a bit better I'll give you an example: one of my friends did ancient history at university and left a redbrick uni to join PWC's audit scheme. As far as I'm aware, history is actually pretty common amongst auditors - I've heard it's the most common degree amongst big 4 joiners (but I think you'll be doing big 4 audit next year so correct me here if I'm wrong), and many other graduates join unrelated fields too. In fact, there are very few true vocational courses offered by redbricks, and redbrick graduates tend to do well on the job market.
In these cases, which represent the majority of graduate destinations, there's no knowledge overlap, so unless we're talking about transferrable skills, which lets admit are always a bit of a tenuous argument, then the degree is somewhat redundant. On the other hand, while languages also wouldn't provide any "specialist knowledge", they're always useful because they're so universal and because any business - whether it be a multinational bank, or your local Greggs - thrives on communication. There will always be some value, no matter how rare or infrequent, to speaking another language, whereas the same can't always be said of someone with a traditional academic degree like geography or history (I'm not slating these degrees by any means - everyone knows they're respectable degrees).
Also, so much on the job learning happens these days that in the long run, degrees don't really matter that much. Even as an engineer which is a vocational course, I'll be expected to learn as much on the job, as I did at university. In fact, I daresay one day a computer will essentially do my job, and when it comes to that I should probably start learning a more universal skill, like a language.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by Mess.
You know that an English degree in England isn't about teaching you how to speak English...
Exactly my point. Apply the same logic to people studying other languages - they aren't simply learning how to speak them.
(P.S. Obviously I did know that that is not what an English degree is about, I did one!)
Original post by M1011
Your friend did a degree in a language she speaks at a native level, yet only managed a 2.2? Seems like a terrible fail given the circumstances.
Personally I don't think people should do degrees in foreign languages, it's kind of like saying 'look at me, I've got a degree in what every child from that country can already do from the age of 5'. Sure there should be some sort of accreditation available, as it is a useful skill in certain roles, but a degree in it? I don't think that's valuable.
Personally I don't think people should do degrees in foreign languages, it's kind of like saying 'look at me, I've got a degree in what every child from that country can already do from the age of 5'. Sure there should be some sort of accreditation available, as it is a useful skill in certain roles, but a degree in it? I don't think that's valuable.
Clearly she was capable of getting a higher classification...I know 'the circumstances' and I don't really see how you could so it's not for you to say whether it was a fail or not.
As for your comment on language degrees, I think you've missed the point completely and your logic is skewed to say the least. She's managed to get a job within a couple of months of graduating in spite of not having a 2:1 because of her language degree because not many adults in *this* country are able to speak the language - why five year olds in another country are relevant to a discussion around the British job market is beyond me.
I do however agree that you don't necessarily have to have a degree in it.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by Nomes89
Clearly she was capable of getting a higher classification...I know 'the circumstances' and I don't really see how you could so it's not for you to say whether it was a fail or not.
As for your comment on language degrees, I think you've missed the point completely and your logic is skewed to say the least. She's managed to get a job within a couple of months of graduating in spite of not having a 2:1 because of her language degree because not many adults in *this* country are able to speak the language - why five year olds in another country are relevant to a discussion around the British job market is beyond me.
I do however agree that you don't necessarily have to have a degree in it.
As for your comment on language degrees, I think you've missed the point completely and your logic is skewed to say the least. She's managed to get a job within a couple of months of graduating in spite of not having a 2:1 because of her language degree because not many adults in *this* country are able to speak the language - why five year olds in another country are relevant to a discussion around the British job market is beyond me.
I do however agree that you don't necessarily have to have a degree in it.
My point was that I would expect a native speaker of a language to do well in a degree which treated that language as foreign. Perhaps my expectations are wrong, but it seems like a massive advantage, no?
I've posted a few times regarding languages since on this thread (feel free to read them if you haven't already), which perhaps makes clearer sense of my views on language degrees. I agree they are a valuable skill, my point was that I don't see the value in a degree as you aren't actually gaining specialist knowledge (hence the 5 year old comment, which was perhaps a bit uncalled for but the logic is there). I guess it all comes down to individual preferences though, each to their own!
i would say psychometric tests are the bigger problems (well for the jobs I am applying to anyways). I have work experience (though short term) and speak other languages. The only problem is that I want to get into a more numerical/scientifical field with a History degree (and I am crap at maths!) Failed many a test! 
Original post by Freaknik
am currently in sixthform and hope to study chemical engineering at uni
is there any advice you ( graduates ) could give in order to increase my chances of getting a job after uni
is there any advice you ( graduates ) could give in order to increase my chances of getting a job after uni
as has been said multiple times: get a year in industry/work experience/community activity AND do some networking. But your subject is highly sought-after anyways.
Original post by Sockhead
Out of interest, I'd there anyone here who studied a degree in media or a variety of it eg media,comms and culture ect?
Where are you working now?
Where are you working now?
Probably at McDonalds.
(Hopefully, if this thread goes on long enough, it'll be able to offend students of every subject; this is my contribution).
Number of graduates in menial jobs doubles in five years with 10,000 taking posts that do not require a degree
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2166241/Number-graduates-menial-jobs-doubles-years.html
Thousands in menial jobs. It's not just a few.
About time this government did something about it?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2166241/Number-graduates-menial-jobs-doubles-years.html
Thousands in menial jobs. It's not just a few.
About time this government did something about it?
Original post by ufo2012
Number of graduates in menial jobs doubles in five years with 10,000 taking posts that do not require a degree
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2166241/Number-graduates-menial-jobs-doubles-years.html
Thousands in menial jobs. It's not just a few.
About time this government did something about it?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2166241/Number-graduates-menial-jobs-doubles-years.html
Thousands in menial jobs. It's not just a few.
About time this government did something about it?
What exactly you propose that they do?
This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App
Original post by ufo2012
About time this government did something about it?
Yes, these educated employed people really are getting the thin end of the wedge. Maybe there should be a higher minimum wage for graduates
is that the kind of thing you mean?
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