Graduates - post here if your work and jobs so far are not as you expected or hoped

Nice one!

Your psychic power needs work It was actually Hannah_Dru who studied German and Translation and then got offered a translating job. I think it was with the same company that she did her placement year with, which like you say is a huge advantage.

Yea it sought someone with GCSE's, I think.



I think most people, or everyone, here knows very well why they may not have a job - perhaps they're basically doing everything right but just haven't got lucky yet or applied for enough jobs for one to catch. Or perhaps, like me, they're basically unemployable and have no relevant skills or experience. I know that, and I'm not surprised that I'm at a low level in work. My degree is broadly useless, I got no industry experience, I have no other tempting skills like languages or programming, and also I'm a pretty weird person who doesn't know how to make people warm to him (no good for interviews).

BUT, I only realised all that fairly recently, because all through school we were fed ideas about how ****ing awesome we were and how going to uni is totally badass and we'll walk into 30k jobs as soon as we graduate. Whether the teachers honestly believed it or not, it was bull****, and quite damaging bull****. I did what I was led to believe was necessary and that was not nearly enough. Other people noticed what to do, though, so good on them. My mind was elsewhere, never really focussed on a career.

Plus I'm basically lazy. I have not applied to "many" jobs because all those that I thought I had a chance at were **** (they are). I probably got interviews for about 20-30% of applications I sent, which isn't bad. I also have some strong philosophical/moral objections to many jobs and that meant I didn't go out very aggressively to seek work.

Anyway basically your view of the graduate+job situation is fairly accurate but I think you're fighting an imaginary enemy here, we all seem to agree.

The main problem in education and career development is that young people are given careers advice by teachers.....

This problem is systemic. .....

Young people are trained to believe that education and employment are extremely formulaic. The first part may be true, but the second certainly isn't. Teachers tell you - do these GCSEs, get As and you'll get to go to VI/College. Then, rinse and repeat with A-levels. Do these A-levels, add these hobbies, write down a whole pile of rubbish on your UCAS form - and you will get to go to Cambridge/Warwick/Nottingham. Repeat again. Go to university, read History/Maths/Economics, apply to graduate schemes and......

Whoops. It stops working there. There are very few grad scheme places, so for the majority they are on their own trying to find work with the mindset that they are more or less guaranteed the job they want. They might be apprehensive, they might worry, but they do have a sense of entitlement in that they still believe in the formula. They have put in the hard work, so where are the rewards?

The answer is that the paradigm is wrong. The free market work place is not an extension of the education system or UCAS. Employers are unconstrained and free to pick whoever they like (subject to labour law, of course). And it is particularly troubling for graduates to discover that the people that get picked are not necessarily those with perfect academics. In some cases, it's people with terrible academics, but a lot of charisma. Or maybe it's the ones that interview well. Or maybe it's the ones with big tits.

And they still don't get it. They still don't understand that the system thus far is geared as an educational meritocracy; but afterwards it becomes a free-for-all. There's no time extensions or free laptops for the dyslexics. There are not excuses for your cat or granny dying, or having "health issues". If you are shy and introverted, the education system will make allowances. An employer will simply say "This is a job for a negotiator. Why on earth would we want someone shy?"

Throughout working life, you will see things that gall you. You will see people you think are useless being promoted way ahead of you, earning twice what you earn. This might be luck, or it might be that they are being selected on some criteria other than your own, and it must occur to you at some point that maybe it is your own criteria (ie education qualifications) that are wrong.

This poster should be Secretary-General of the UN or something. This is exactly right and this person even has the candour to admit that he's somewhat lazy.

The main problem in education and career development is that young people are given careers advice by teachers - who are by and large the worst possible people to be giving it. In general they are career teachers who have never had to find work other than with a school, have strong unions and basically live in a public sector gravy train dream world. I know a fair few teachers, and whilst they're fine on a personal level - professionally they're very lacking and would struggle in most other jobs.

This problem is systemic. Just look at TSR. Apart from the dumb "muslims" threads, the most common ones are along the lines of: "Am I good enough for xyz?" Young people are trained to believe that education and employment are extremely formulaic. The first part may be true, but the second certainly isn't. Teachers tell you - do these GCSEs, get As and you'll get to go to VI/College. Then, rinse and repeat with A-levels. Do these A-levels, add these hobbies, write down a whole pile of rubbish on your UCAS form - and you will get to go to Cambridge/Warwick/Nottingham. Repeat again. Go to university, read History/Maths/Economics, apply to graduate schemes and......

Whoops. It stops working there. There are very few grad scheme places, so for the majority they are on their own trying to find work with the mindset that they are more or less guaranteed the job they want. They might be apprehensive, they might worry, but they do have a sense of entitlement in that they still believe in the formula. They have put in the hard work, so where are the rewards?

The answer is that the paradigm is wrong. The free market work place is not an extension of the education system or UCAS. Employers are unconstrained and free to pick whoever they like (subject to labour law, of course). And it is particularly troubling for graduates to discover that the people that get picked are not necessarily those with perfect academics. In some cases, it's people with terrible academics, but a lot of charisma. Or maybe it's the ones that interview well. Or maybe it's the ones with big tits.

And they still don't get it. They still don't understand that the system thus far is geared as an educational meritocracy; but afterwards it becomes a free-for-all. There's no time extensions or free laptops for the dyslexics. There are not excuses for your cat or granny dying, or having "health issues". If you are shy and introverted, the education system will make allowances. An employer will simply say "This is a job for a negotiator. Why on earth would we want someone shy?"

Throughout working life, you will see things that gall you. You will see people you think are useless being promoted way ahead of you, earning twice what you earn. This might be luck, or it might be that they are being selected on some criteria other than your own, and it must occur to you at some point that maybe it is your own criteria (ie education qualifications) that are wrong.

You don't need a degree in philosophy to work at Phones4u. Yet people make a living out of it. Some make a very good living. They become good salesmen, and then maybe move on to selling something else. Maybe cars. Maybe houses. Maybe eventually surface-to-air missiles, and earning fortunes. They have a quality which is not quantifiable by GCSEs or A-levels, but is quantifiable in the most genuine sense - money.

So, graduates - stop feeling sorry for yourselves, and do something about it. Do whatever you can, because you have a relatively small window of opportunity, and it's important not to become that 40 year old on the dole, still bitter about never having found the job in Biochemistry, but happy to tell everyone how clever he is.

Yea it sought someone with GCSE's, I think.



I think most people, or everyone, here knows very well why they may not have a job - perhaps they're basically doing everything right but just haven't got lucky yet or applied for enough jobs for one to catch. Or perhaps, like me, they're basically unemployable and have no relevant skills or experience. I know that, and I'm not surprised that I'm at a low level in work. My degree is broadly useless, I got no industry experience, I have no other tempting skills like languages or programming, and also I'm a pretty weird person who doesn't know how to make people warm to him (no good for interviews).

BUT, I only realised all that fairly recently, because all through school we were fed ideas about how ****ing awesome we were and how going to uni is totally badass and we'll walk into 30k jobs as soon as we graduate. Whether the teachers honestly believed it or not, it was bull****, and quite damaging bull****. I did what I was led to believe was necessary and that was not nearly enough. Other people noticed what to do, though, so good on them. My mind was elsewhere, never really focussed on a career.

Plus I'm basically lazy. I have not applied to "many" jobs because all those that I thought I had a chance at were **** (they are). I probably got interviews for about 20-30% of applications I sent, which isn't bad. I also have some strong philosophical/moral objections to many jobs and that meant I didn't go out very aggressively to seek work.

Anyway basically your view of the graduate+job situation is fairly accurate but I think you're fighting an imaginary enemy here, we all seem to agree.

There's no time extensions or free laptops for the dyslexics.

You can get extra time in professional exams (ACA, CFQ etc)
Apart from that, you guys have hit the nail on the head.

All i'm going to add to it is that a lot of grad jobs are getting outsourced to the east. There's few banks/financial services firms that crunch their own numbers. The USA is even seeing audits themselves being 99% outsourced. IT is over there, support services are. How many graduate roles couldn't be done cheaper and better by some over-educated Indian (with a bit of hand holding by someone who really knows the score)?

Few graduates graduate with useful skills that you can't find abroad for cheaper. And they're pushed/conditioned at every educational level, into roles that, medium/long term are not where (i personally) think the future is, as you don't add any non replicable value to yourself.

I can't help thinking that any idiot could get a graduate job, given what's required, the only problem is that there's simply too many of them and therefore the sums can never work. If you're competent, you'll find some way 'up' from wherever you are. And i dare say that works best outside of large organisations.

Not sure what my point is. Maybe that i wouldn't go uni/grad job route if i could wind the clock back 10 years, but then again i only know that through hindsight!

You can get extra time in professional exams (ACA, CFQ etc)
Apart from that, you guys have hit the nail on the head.

All i'm going to add to it is that a lot of grad jobs are getting outsourced to the east. There's few banks/financial services firms that crunch their own numbers. The USA is even seeing audits themselves being 99% outsourced. IT is over there, support services are. How many graduate roles couldn't be done cheaper and better by some over-educated Indian (with a bit of hand holding by someone who really knows the score)?

Few graduates graduate with useful skills that you can't find abroad for cheaper. And they're pushed/conditioned at every educational level, into roles that, medium/long term are not where (i personally) think the future is, as you don't add any non replicable value to yourself.

I can't help thinking that any idiot could get a graduate job, given what's required, the only problem is that there's simply too many of them and therefore the sums can never work. If you're competent, you'll find some way 'up' from wherever you are. And i dare say that works best outside of large organisations.

Not sure what my point is. Maybe that i wouldn't go uni/grad job route if i could wind the clock back 10 years, but then again i only know that through hindsight!

i feel like rippin my hair out

lol YES. Woke up this morning to a graduate job offer!!

Low starting pay as they do but Thank you Jesus!!!!!!!!

To think i was so bored yesturday i was torturing ants, now im off to buy some work clothes.

lol YES. Woke up this morning to a graduate job offer!!

Low starting pay as they do but Thank you Jesus!!!!!!!!

To think i was so bored yesturday i was torturing ants, now im off to buy some work clothes.

This poster should be Secretary-General of the UN or something. This is exactly right and this person even has the candour to admit that he's somewhat lazy.

The main problem in education and career development is that young people are given careers advice by teachers - who are by and large the worst possible people to be giving it. In general they are career teachers who have never had to find work other than with a school, have strong unions and basically live in a public sector gravy train dream world. I know a fair few teachers, and whilst they're fine on a personal level - professionally they're very lacking and would struggle in most other jobs.

This problem is systemic. Just look at TSR. Apart from the dumb "muslims" threads, the most common ones are along the lines of: "Am I good enough for xyz?" Young people are trained to believe that education and employment are extremely formulaic. The first part may be true, but the second certainly isn't. Teachers tell you - do these GCSEs, get As and you'll get to go to VI/College. Then, rinse and repeat with A-levels. Do these A-levels, add these hobbies, write down a whole pile of rubbish on your UCAS form - and you will get to go to Cambridge/Warwick/Nottingham. Repeat again. Go to university, read History/Maths/Economics, apply to graduate schemes and......

Whoops. It stops working there. There are very few grad scheme places, so for the majority they are on their own trying to find work with the mindset that they are more or less guaranteed the job they want. They might be apprehensive, they might worry, but they do have a sense of entitlement in that they still believe in the formula. They have put in the hard work, so where are the rewards?

The answer is that the paradigm is wrong. The free market work place is not an extension of the education system or UCAS. Employers are unconstrained and free to pick whoever they like (subject to labour law, of course). And it is particularly troubling for graduates to discover that the people that get picked are not necessarily those with perfect academics. In some cases, it's people with terrible academics, but a lot of charisma. Or maybe it's the ones that interview well. Or maybe it's the ones with big tits.

And they still don't get it. They still don't understand that the system thus far is geared as an educational meritocracy; but afterwards it becomes a free-for-all. There's no time extensions or free laptops for the dyslexics. There are not excuses for your cat or granny dying, or having "health issues". If you are shy and introverted, the education system will make allowances. An employer will simply say "This is a job for a negotiator. Why on earth would we want someone shy?"

Throughout working life, you will see things that gall you. You will see people you think are useless being promoted way ahead of you, earning twice what you earn. This might be luck, or it might be that they are being selected on some criteria other than your own, and it must occur to you at some point that maybe it is your own criteria (ie education qualifications) that are wrong.

You don't need a degree in philosophy to work at Phones4u. Yet people make a living out of it. Some make a very good living. They become good salesmen, and then maybe move on to selling something else. Maybe cars. Maybe houses. Maybe eventually surface-to-air missiles, and earning fortunes. They have a quality which is not quantifiable by GCSEs or A-levels, but is quantifiable in the most genuine sense - money.

So, graduates - stop feeling sorry for yourselves, and do something about it. Do whatever you can, because you have a relatively small window of opportunity, and it's important not to become that 40 year old on the dole, still bitter about never having found the job in Biochemistry, but happy to tell everyone how clever he is.

Im due to start at uni in oct which will hopefully help me on my way to getting my dream job in heritage management. However, having researched and read up on things, experience seems to be worth more than a degree which makes me wonder whether I would be best off trying to work my way up rather than study

I graduated with a 2.1 from Birmingham last summer and am STILL job hunting! Wish someone had told me back then that experience is valuable on the job market, much more than your grades even. I find my lack of experience is stopping me from getting a job, and without a job I cannot get experience...and so the vicious cycle continues :/

bah, another application didn't get through to interviews.
It was only 17k as well - how do adults survive on that? Does everyone live in a shared house these days? I really don't understand what kind of money people live off, it's weird how low wages are. I used to think that 30k was a pretty normal young adult wage, but it seems that 21k is really good going and 30k is an end-of-career level to get to.