[victoryshinesonus]

Is is far more difficult to get for an American to get into the American top 25 than it is for Brits to get into our top 25? Are the SATs and such far harder than A-levels?

[brightbulb]

I'm not too sure how it works in the US, but don't they also have something called a GPA? And America's a bigger place, so it might be harder, it depends if the size of the unis are bigger over there :P

[victoryshinesonus]

(Original post by brightbulb)
I'm not too sure how it works in the US, but don't they also have something called a GPA? And America's a bigger place, so it might be harder, it depends if the size of the unis are bigger over there :P

I think their top 25 on the whole are larger on average, there are less small ones like ICL, LSE, St. Andrews, Bristol, Warwick and such.

[BigBadSaint]

Yes and no - its a really different system, and one which values extra curriculars much more than here, so pupils who can cope with lots of varied activities and maintain fairly good academics are at an advantage, whereas someone with brains alone will cope better in the Uk system. There are pros and cons to both, Uk system want clever people so that the UK continues to punch way above its weight academically, while US unis want to catch the next big entrepreneur/politician/ sports star who will be influential and make them money.

I think what I dislike about America's admissions system is how much it favours wealthy students - you are at a crippling disadvantage if you went to a school which doesn't offer lots of extra curriculars or have its own sports facilities, and the decentralised education system means school is much more of a lottery than in the UK. For all out problems over here, most comprehensives offer a standard set of gcses and A levels, while over there some schools don't even offer APs. Nor does our system penalise people who weren't able to volunteer 500 hours of community service or enter prestigious science competitions.
Money still talks over here in a big way, you only need to look at the dominance of private schools in redbrick uni entry, but the spectrum of disadvantage is lessened when it is only academics that they look for, and even with the fees rises, a poor student can viably attend any uni in the country, something which simply isn't possible in the US unless you apply to a very wealthy college.


On a practical note, being able to apply to only 5 here and as many as you want in America probably makes a big difference in terms of difficulty of entrance - you are competing against far fewer people through UCAS.

[lifeisgood.]

Being a bigger country, they have more top universities than the UK, so yes. US top 25>UK top 25 hands down.

[Lilium]

(Original post by BigBadSaint)
Yes and no - its a really different system, and one which values extra curriculars much more than here, so pupils who can cope with lots of varied activities and maintain fairly good academics are at an advantage, whereas someone with brains alone will cope better in the Uk system. There are pros and cons to both, Uk system want clever people so that the UK continues to punch way above its weight academically, while US unis want to catch the next big entrepreneur/politician/ sports star who will be influential and make them money.

I think what I dislike about America's admissions system is how much it favours wealthy students - you are at a crippling disadvantage if you went to a school which doesn't offer lots of extra curriculars or have its own sports facilities, and the decentralised education system means school is much more of a lottery than in the UK. For all out problems over here, most comprehensives offer a standard set of gcses and A levels, while over there some schools don't even offer APs. Nor does our system penalise people who weren't able to volunteer 500 hours of community service or enter prestigious science competitions.
Money still talks over here in a big way, you only need to look at the dominance of private schools in redbrick uni entry, but the spectrum of disadvantage is lessened when it is only academics that they look for, and even with the fees rises, a poor student can viably attend any uni in the country, something which simply isn't possible in the US unless you apply to a very wealthy college.


On a practical note, being able to apply to only 5 here and as many as you want in America probably makes a big difference in terms of difficulty of entrance - you are competing against far fewer people through UCAS.

Having selection criteria which looks for more than just academic performance does not mean that there are "less clever" students. Applicants with excellent A-Level grades do get rejected and while intelligence may have something to do with achieving good grades, there's more to it than that alone. For example, one's personal essays and teacher recommendations can say a lot about one's intellect or personality. Both systems have their merits and flaws. On the subject, I think more UK universities should include an academic interview in their application process - this is a more efficient way to select applicants than just A-Level grades. With the American system, one can gain acceptance to a good college despite not having near-perfect grades. Something which wouldn't be possible with UK universities.

Having 500 hours worth of community service is not necessarily anything to be proud of. Listing a bunch of out-of-class activities does not mean a thing if one is not even interested in them. Now, things are different if one can show their interest or passion in the activities they were involved in, whether it is coding or volunteering. Each school has their own way of doing things - each may value different attributes differently - and as a result, there really is no specific formula to getting into the top colleges. It is possible that one rejected from, say Williams College, is accepted to Columbia University and so forth.

Certain less selective schools are more straightforward with their admissions, however. Good enough academic performance is enough to gain entry at some places but I'm not too familiar with those. (there's actually a lot of them, from what I hear but I did not dig too deep there, for most, if not all of them, do not have much in the way of financial assistance for international students)

American students have more financial aid options (FAFSA?) available to them. There are more need-blind and full-need colleges for them, not to mention the need-aware, yet full-need ones, where one can still be admitted if they're considered as being "good" applicants. I don't see why
"a poor student can viably attend any uni in the country, something which simply isn't possible in the US unless you apply to a very wealthy college" is a problem when there are a number of such "very wealthy colleges", where one can gain funding if they're good enough to be admitted! In addition to that, there are merit and/or athletic scholarships available at even more institutions and at times, these can cover up to full tuition.