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Should the 'women and children first' rule still apply when a ship is sinking?

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    i really cant tell...people who contributed more in the society normally should be the ones to get in the boat but still seems unfair,for example if you had Einstein and a "village" lady with a kid who would you let in the boat?
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    (Original post by almalibre11111)
    i really cant tell...people who contributed more in the society normally should be the ones to get in the boat but still seems unfair,for example if you had Einstein and a "village" lady with a kid who would you let in the boat?
    No. When faced with disaster & death, humans (whether we like to think we're a 'higher species' or not) act upon instinct. This means, survival of the fittest. Ship sinking? Every man for himself, then help the others.
    I don't think anyone should be forced to stay on the ship to help others get off. I can partially understand the 'helping the children' part of this, since some of them would be too young to even have a chance of surviving; but why should women go first? As others have said, this is a tad sexist. In situations like these men have hardly any advantages over the other sex. Why not privilege physically weaker men over stronger men then?...
    Although some will disagree, if I were on a sinking ship, I would run my a*se off to get to safety, regardless of what the 'rules of the ship' are - and no, that isn't selfish, it's natural.
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    Why should women be given priority ? They always complain about being discriminated against men , and they demand for equality which they have in today's society . So , since they have equal rights , therefore why should they now expect to be given priority ahead of men ? Children first , then its 1st come 1st saved , period ! But in reality , its harder for a man to jump for a life boat whilst leaving behind a woman , so its human nature guys . Its an interesting dilemma that no one can solve . Women are stupid creatures at times but come on guys , when such a tragedy is happening , they are all over the place , screaming , tears trimming down , you are left with no choice but to let them first but as soon as they are safe , they start complaining why it took so long to be rescued ...women !
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    Yes, Woman and Children should be protected.

    I don't care whether people want to be in denial about it, but both women and children are physically weaker and more vulnerable then men are.
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    (Original post by tufc)
    So you claim that women and men are equal, but simultaneously claim that women are more important to children than men are?
    I never said that, I do think mothers and fathers have an equal role to play. I merely said it would be the logical choice - and that is only because society reinforces this - the majority of people would say that a mother should stay with her child rather than the father.
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    Children should be prioritised for sure.

    But as for women, no. All this rubbish about men having a better chance of surviving the conditions because they are 'physically stronger' than women (funny how this suddenly becomes a unanimously accepted truth when we're talking about sinking ships but is vehemently denied if someone suggests women require men to look after them in everyday life or in potentially dangerous situations etc) is exactly that, rubbish. A person's physical strength will have very little impact on their survival chances if we're using the Titanic scenario as an example. I don't care if Leonardo DiCaprio was 6'7" and built like a Mexican wrestler, he still wouldn't have survived in those temperatures for that long.

    The best way I can think to explain it is like this:

    Here is a scale from 1-10.

    1-----2-----3-----4-----5-----6-----7-----8-----9-----10

    Say that your physical state has to be at least 9 on the scale in order for you to survive. Let's say that children are at number 2 on the scale. Women are at number 5 (because apparently now we're all conceding that they are so much more physically frail than men) and men are at number 7, for the same reason. But although the men are further towards the survival threshold of 9 on account of their 'superior physical strength', and thus technically have a better chance of surviving the situation than women, they in effect do not have a better chance at all because the supposed difference in physical strength between the genders is insufficient to make such a difference as to allow men to survive where women would not.

    Sorry if that was convaluted but it is the best way I can think to explain it.

    There is not one logically valid reason why women should be prioritised over men in this situation.
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    women have on average more bodyfat than men, wouldn't that make them more bouyant and less likely to drown?
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    (Original post by GnomeyD)
    I never said that, I do think mothers and fathers have an equal role to play. I merely said it would be the logical choice - and that is only because society reinforces this - the majority of people would say that a mother should stay with her child rather than the father.
    The fact that it is reinforced by society does not mean that something is therefore logical.

    Society generally feels that domestic violence committed against women is more serious and reprehensible than that committed against men - does that make it logical?

    No, it does not.
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    (Original post by Kenocide)
    The fact that it is reinforced by society does not mean that something is therefore logical.

    Society generally feels that domestic violence committed against women is more serious and reprehensible than that committed against men - does that make it logical?

    No, it does not.
    I never said it was logical because of what society tells us to do. I personally think domestic violence is equally as bad whether it happens to men or women. I don't really understand why you're all bringing in these comparisons that aren't all that relevant - I said originally I find it offensive to be classed as vulnerable as a child, if I was on the boat then I would want as much right to a place on a lifeboat than a man. However when it comes to accompanying the children it makes sense for the mother to go because most self-respecting fathers would sacrifice themselves for the sake of their wife/mother of their child and their child. To be completely honest though, what has happened to good old chivalry? It's not unfeminist to expect courtesy from men or women.
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    Children should be put on lifeboats first with their mother (if not their fathers)
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    Not being funny but if i was on titanic i would of survived, Id of just throw every piece of furniture into the water and get on the ones that float or tie 4 barrels together and but a mattress on it and get me some blankets and I'm off
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    (Original post by kuteascake)
    So, it's been 100 years since the Titanic sank and it's got me thinking. Is the 'women and children first' rule (which isn't always practiced or enforced when a ship is sinking anyway) outdated?

    Personally, it strikes me as kind of sexist- why should a woman's life be worth more than that of a man? Us girls are constantly complaining that we still aren't treated as complete equals to men, but surely things like this unwritten rule are hindering our achievement of equality?

    I know that if I were on board a sinking ship, I'd give up my space on a lifeboat for somebody else, but I wonder how many others actually would?

    Anyway, I'm just interested to know what you guys think; should it be every man for himself, the most vulnerable first or should the captain still order men to step aside for women and children?

    Discuss
    Everyone has a right to life, pursuant to Article of the European Convention of Human Rights which stipulates: "Everyone’s right to life shall be protected by law …". Therefore, this article ovverdides the rule of "women and child first"
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    I'd think about it if women we viewed in a more equal way in normal everday life, say with wages.
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    My order of loading a lifeboat

    1. A few crewmen who know what they're doing to man the boat
    2. Families with small children (say less than 12)
    3. Other family groups if there is room for them all aboard together
    4. Frail, physically impaired etc
    5. Other passengers
    6. If there are any remaining spots crew can come aboard

    The claims that women are weaker than men only hold so much water. If you're faced by a dip in freezing cold water, both will die fairly quickly regardless of strength. If anything women last slightly longer due to additional body fat.
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    (Original post by Zhin)
    I'd think about it if women we viewed in a more equal way in normal everday life, say with wages.

    -In Womens Tennis pay is equal despite men playing for longer and bringing in 90% of the money
    -Women get custody of children in 93% of divorces and as a result men are forced to pay for that child when often being denied access to them
    -Women in the army are kept out of the front line so 99.9% deaths during times of war are men
    -95% of work place deaths are men
    -Men accused of rape are named and shamed if the female lied she is still given life long annonymity.
    -On dates men are usually expected to pay for everything
    -Male On Female abuse is condemed (rightly so) while Female on Male Violence is laughed and joked about
    -80% to 90% of street homeless people are men
    -Men in general are given longer prison sentences than woman for commiting the same crime and mens prisons are much harsher.
    -When woman are laughed at my men in the media there is an outcry (see Andy Gray and Richard Keyes) yet when Woman bash men (see loose women) it's perfectly fine.
    -Objectification - Media pretends that only men slaver over the opposite sex and slam us for it yet when woman slaver over the likes of David Beckham half naked it's seen as perfectly acceptable.
    -Retirment Age - 5 Years later for men despite Women living longer in general
    -Schoolchildren rape - When male teachers have sex with girls he is seen as a paedo freak and the girl is a victim yet when a female teachers has sex with boys the boy is seen as lucky.
    -Men on average work longer hours than women

    So even if men are paid more they also suffer more than women we work longer hours and work in more dangerous conditions and women between the ages of 18 and 29 now earn more on average than men.
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    (Original post by Shabalala)
    -In Womens Tennis pay is equal despite men playing for longer and bringing in 90% of the money
    -Women get custody of children in 93% of divorces and as a result men are forced to pay for that child when often being denied access to them
    -Women in the army are kept out of the front line so 99.9% deaths during times of war are men
    -95% of work place deaths are men
    -Men accused of rape are named and shamed if the female lied she is still given life long annonymity.
    -On dates men are usually expected to pay for everything
    -Male On Female abuse is condemed (rightly so) while Female on Male Violence is laughed and joked about
    -80% to 90% of street homeless people are men
    -Men in general are given longer prison sentences than woman for commiting the same crime and mens prisons are much harsher.
    -When woman are laughed at my men in the media there is an outcry (see Andy Gray and Richard Keyes) yet when Woman bash men (see loose women) it's perfectly fine.
    -Objectification - Media pretends that only men slaver over the opposite sex and slam us for it yet when woman slaver over the likes of David Beckham half naked it's seen as perfectly acceptable.
    -Retirment Age - 5 Years later for men despite Women living longer in general
    -Schoolchildren rape - When male teachers have sex with girls he is seen as a paedo freak and the girl is a victim yet when a female teachers has sex with boys the boy is seen as lucky.
    -Men on average work longer hours than women

    So even if men are paid more they also suffer more than women we work longer hours and work in more dangerous conditions and women between the ages of 18 and 29 now earn more on average than men.
    Well, I guess I stand corrected.
    Though I have to say, nearly eVeryone takes the piss out of Loose Women, just saying! xD
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    (Original post by Patriot Rich)
    My order of loading a lifeboat

    1. A few crewmen who know what they're doing to man the boat
    2. Families with small children (say less than 12)
    3. Other family groups if there is room for them all aboard together
    4. Frail, physically impaired etc
    5. Other passengers
    6. If there are any remaining spots crew can come aboard

    The claims that women are weaker than men only hold so much water. If you're faced by a dip in freezing cold water, both will die fairly quickly regardless of strength. If anything women last slightly longer due to additional body fat.

    Titanic Situation (with no help coming)
    -Why should adults who have already re produced and had children who will carry on the family line get to live while late teens and early 20 year olds who haven't had that chance be condemed to die the chances are that the children will have other family members on land. Or why should elderly people be given seats when they have already had the chance to live their life while a young person again be condemed to death. And why should a crew member who wan't involved in the acciddent be condemed to death aswell just becuse his place of work happened to be sinking.

    The only real fair way to do it would be the youngest passengers go aboard the life boats so more years of life would be saved but this would be impossible to achieve so the only way to do it would be first come first serve if someone wan't to give up their seats they can.

    Non Titanic Situation (with help or land nearby)

    -Elderly, Disbaled, Children and people who cannot swim regardless of gender should be given priority. People who are in better condition (i.e late teens, 20's, early 30's) should be last off as they can survive longer and could swin to shore.

    TO PEOPLE SAYING MEN ARE STRONGER
    Yes in general men are stronger but it doesn't make a difference women have more body fat and are proven to be able to tolerate more pain and to tolerate more extreme temperatures than men can so will be able to survive longer in freezing water strength has no effect on survival in freezing water
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    (Original post by kuteascake)
    I know that if I were on board a sinking ship, I'd give up my space on a lifeboat for somebody else, but I wonder how many others actually would?
    It's ridiculous to think "I would do that in this dramatic situation" while you've not yet been in a sinking boat.... It's situation so extreme that you can't guess what would your reactions....
    What will be your reactions when your mother will die ? Impossible to answer this question without be confronted.

    (Original post by internet tough guy)
    As for children, well maybe there is a case for them because you can fit more of them in one life boat,
    ahah great answer. I never thinking about that !
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    I asked someone this same question the other day.
    I woz told well there would be enough life boats for everyone these days so it shouldnt really be an issue. Do they still have the women and children first?
    Everyones equal in my eyes
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    omg. youz all should die in a fire.

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