[najinaji]

(Original post by MTR_10)
You believe working for charity is selfish but support capitalism?

As an alternative to your narrow minded viewpoint why have costs for running a charity? Why should money have to come into a discussion regarding charity? Why not remove the cost of power, transport, facilities altogether. Leave the capitalists to wrestle with their own greed.

Typical capitalist corrupting the idea and discussion eh?

Let me guess, you're about 15...?

[Ex Death]

(Original post by Clip)
The benefits system is paid for in the most part by the capitalist system. It is not meant to allow people to pursue their own selfish ends. And yes, working for a charity is a selfish end.

This is the most retarded statement you have made and truly exposes your ignorance. You say that the benefits system is paid for by the capitalist system therefore it is not meant to allow for selfish ends. Do you even realise that the entire capitalist system is FOUNDED upon selfishness and greed? Do you realise the only thing that allows the capitalist system to thrive FOR PERSONAL FINANCIAL GAIN is massive amounts of selfishness and greed?

Working for a charity is absolutely commendable. One might argue that it doesn't solve issues at the heart of where they come from but it is still fantastic to see.

[Chapeau Rouge]

(Original post by MTR_10)
Would the manager of Tesco employ someone with an anti-capitalist stance though?

That retort makes no sense.

I think you are trying to imply that only jobs that people on JSA can get is Tesco...
It doesn't matter if you're anti-capitalist, still means you can stack shelves, using your point anyway.

Methinks you've just finished reading the Communist Manifesto and going through the standard period where you believe everything you've read is true and everyone else is "stupid" and "capitalist".

[Clip]

(Original post by Ex Death)
This is the most retarded statement you have made and truly exposes your ignorance. You say that the benefits system is paid for by the capitalist system therefore it is not meant to allow for selfish ends. Do you even realise that the entire capitalist system is FOUNDED upon selfishness and greed? Do you realise the only thing that allows the capitalist system to thrive FOR PERSONAL FINANCIAL GAIN is massive amounts of selfishness and greed?

I don't see at all.

The capitalist system is founded on self interest. One's own self-interest. Not anyone else's.

Benefits are intended to help those who cannot help themselves. Not to help those who do not want to help themselves, or want to help others.

The other axiom of capitalism is choice. You get to choose what you do. If you want to be philanthropic - it is your choice who to give to, and how much to give. Abusing the benefits system in this way is the exact opposite. It's taking people's money and using it for one's own ends without consent. Those are decisions for government aid, not for individuals to self-delegate.

Working for a charity is absolutely commendable. One might argue that it doesn't solve issues at the heart of where they come from but it is still fantastic to see.

Not necessarily. What if one doesn't support certain charities? Although there are restrictions on how a charity must be formed and run; there are less restrictions on exactly who can be supported or why. There are charities whose activities horrify various people at all points along the political spectrum. Why should individuals be allowed to pursue minority interests at public expense?

[ilovehobnobs]

(Original post by Chapeau Rouge)
I may be wrong but I'm sure you can't claim Jobseekers if you are volunteering?

You can. You have to be prepared to drop it straight away though if your offered a job.

[Clip]

(Original post by MTR_10)
You believe working for charity is selfish but support capitalism?

As an alternative to your narrow minded viewpoint why have costs for running a charity? Why should money have to come into a discussion regarding charity? Why not remove the cost of power, transport, facilities altogether. Leave the capitalists to wrestle with their own greed.

Typical capitalist corrupting the idea and discussion eh?

Are you saying that charities should not have to pay for anything?

They already enjoy enormous tax advantages both locally and centrally.

If charities were to have all their overheads provided free, it would almost certainly lead to widespread abuse. If not intentionally, certainly from the point of view of negligence - there would almost certainly be horrific wastage of all resources.

There would also then be a huge incentive for all not-for-profits to become charities and jump on the same gravy train. And the not-for-profit sector is generally incredibly wasteful and "greedy" as it is. When you are not accountable for your earnings/outgoings, the natural result is waste and excess. Look at the NHS for a prime example. Unions are no better.

Chief Executives of charities and healthcare trusts are exceptionally well paid as it is. What you are advocating would send that into overdrive and create a whole sector of unaccountable wastrels.

Let's say I don't fancy working for a living. I start my own charity to save the gay whale and get everything for free. Who is to stop me? Who is to be the arbiter of what is or is not a worthy charity?

[MTR_10]

(Original post by Clip)
Are you saying that charities should not have to pay for anything?

They already enjoy enormous tax advantages both locally and centrally.

If charities were to have all their overheads provided free, it would almost certainly lead to widespread abuse. If not intentionally, certainly from the point of view of negligence - there would almost certainly be horrific wastage of all resources.

There would also then be a huge incentive for all not-for-profits to become charities and jump on the same gravy train. And the not-for-profit sector is generally incredibly wasteful and "greedy" as it is. When you are not accountable for your earnings/outgoings, the natural result is waste and excess. Look at the NHS for a prime example. Unions are no better.

Chief Executives of charities and healthcare trusts are exceptionally well paid as it is. What you are advocating would send that into overdrive and create a whole sector of unaccountable wastrels.

Let's say I don't fancy working for a living. I start my own charity to save the gay whale and get everything for free. Who is to stop me? Who is to be the arbiter of what is or is not a worthy charity?

Correct me if I am wrong, but did you not just post on another thread praising the Japanese system. Their system which relies on the individual honesty and integrity of the citizens. How can we expect something similar when we have such distrust as yours?

Also why would people abuse it? Because of free market capitalism. Yet I don't see you condemning that as quick as you appear to be doing here.

We need to get people to act in the interest of society and the common good and that sadly is fundamentally anti-capitalist (or at least goes against the capitalist system we have in the west). It is this model that has destroyed all moral standards and integrity in society.

[Ex Death]

(Original post by Clip)
I don't see at all.

The capitalist system is founded on self interest. One's own self-interest. Not anyone else's.

Benefits are intended to help those who cannot help themselves. Not to help those who do not want to help themselves, or want to help others.

The other axiom of capitalism is choice. You get to choose what you do. If you want to be philanthropic - it is your choice who to give to, and how much to give. Abusing the benefits system in this way is the exact opposite. It's taking people's money and using it for one's own ends without consent. Those are decisions for government aid, not for individuals to self-delegate.


Not necessarily. What if one doesn't support certain charities? Although there are restrictions on how a charity must be formed and run; there are less restrictions on exactly who can be supported or why. There are charities whose activities horrify various people at all points along the political spectrum. Why should individuals be allowed to pursue minority interests at public expense?

Oh look, we happen to live under a wonderfully flawless and perfect capitalist system. Therefore we must abide by it at all costs and because capitalism was founded upon selfishness and greed, we too must abide by these wonderful tools of self-interest. Let's not use common sense about what is actually inherently good.

Robin Hood stole from the rich and gave to the poor during the middle ages when there was nothing even remotely civilised as capitalism - he was an absolute w*nker wasn't he?

Why should people pursue minority public interests such as charities that DO GOOD FOR THE WORLD? Yeah you're right we should all behave like dehumanised drones, sell our souls to the corporate machine and look forward to the next paycheck so that we can blow it all on useless products we don't need. Champaign party anyone?