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5 months gym but small gains. Why?

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    (Original post by iSMark)
    and some steroids.
    What?
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    (Original post by MancBoy)
    So how should I go about fixing my diet?

    How does this sound?

    Breakfast - Oats and 2 eggs (orange juice)
    Mid-morning - Shake
    Lunch - Tuna and jacket potato or Tuna sandwich
    Afternoon snack - Shake
    Dinner - Rice + chicken/Pasta + chicken
    Evening snack - Shake
    Haven't you just changed the order really? Less powder more food!

    Have you told us how much you weigh? If you have I've lost it somewhere in the tangents. How much you is determines how much you're going to need to eat.

    I'm 67kg, work out three times a week, walk 30-60mins 5-6days a week. I need 3000 calories to gain a lb a week. I'd put what you are suggesting at like 1500 calories and 160g of protein (assuming water in your shakes). That's **** all.

    Loose two of the shakes, replace them with food. You want the food you have now then another 1000 calories which will include some healthy fats (like nuts) since you seem to eat almost none and the 50g protein to replace the shakes.

    I'm guess since I don't know your exact portion sizes or weight but I'm probably not miles off.
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    You eat F*** all.
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    (Original post by MancBoy)
    I have been going to the gym 3 times a week with this routine -

    Tues - Back + Biceps

    Thurs - Chest + Triceps

    Sat - Shoulders + Legs

    With 3 exercises and 3 sets on each muscle. I have been lifting hard(ish) always getting doms the next morning. However I have only noticed little to no gains. I have to admit my diet has been a little off. The past 2 months I have only started having 3 protein shakes a day with 1-2 meals. Here's current eating schedule -

    Morning - Oats + 2 eggs + orange juice
    Pre-workout - Protein shake (1 scoop)
    Post - Protein shake (1 scoop)
    Dinner - Usually white rice and chicken/lamb curry (homemade)
    Evening - Protein shake (1 scoop)
    Evening snack - Cheese toast/crisps/sandwich/chocolate (bit naughty!)

    Can anyone give me some pointers in how I can start seeing more gains?
    no milk?
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    (Original post by MancBoy)
    I have been going to the gym 3 times a week with this routine -

    Tues - Back + Biceps

    Thurs - Chest + Triceps

    Sat - Shoulders + Legs

    With 3 exercises and 3 sets on each muscle. I have been lifting hard(ish) always getting doms the next morning. However I have only noticed little to no gains. I have to admit my diet has been a little off. The past 2 months I have only started having 3 protein shakes a day with 1-2 meals. Here's current eating schedule -

    Morning - Oats + 2 eggs + orange juice
    Pre-workout - Protein shake (1 scoop)
    Post - Protein shake (1 scoop)
    Dinner - Usually white rice and chicken/lamb curry (homemade)
    Evening - Protein shake (1 scoop)
    Evening snack - Cheese toast/crisps/sandwich/chocolate (bit naughty!)

    Can anyone give me some pointers in how I can start seeing more gains?
    What happened to lunch? :confused:
    'Cause it looks like you are miles off your ~ 3000 calories a day requirement for gains.
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    OP: You're not eating enough. And possibly you're not sleeping enough. If you want to make big changes then you're gonna have to stop a bodybuilding split like the one you're on and do a routine designed for strength gains first, like SS or SL. Anything that involves heavy, compound movements will be good for you if you're trying to gain. Also, sort your diet out.

    I've been doing a slight variant on SS (because I don't have all the equipment available) and I've made great gains in both strength and aesthetics in a reasonably short space of time.

    (Original post by Simplicity)
    Don't listen to the trolls that tell you to do SS


    The second picture is particulalry relevent. He was tried personally by Rippletoe and he looks like crap.

    If you want to do powerlifting, then do SS if not do something else. Hodgetwins are a good source of knowledge, should watch there videos. But, don't listen to these trolls.
    HAHA. What? You're an idiot.

    SS is "Starting Strength" and it's just exactly that. It's good for starting strength. Getting strength on your lifts so that you're able to move heavier weights. It's not "Starting Aesthetics." Rippletits has said that he doesn't give a crap about your aesthetics: it's purely a strength routine. It's a routine for beginners who want to get stronger. Not for someone who wants to look like Zyzz. Also, so you know, Zyzz was a huge fan of SS and the traditional compound lift movements. If you're not strong enough to move around decent amounts of weight then you're not going to be able to successfully induce hypertrophy when you're doing a bodybuilding split.

    If you're citing /fit/ as your source for SS being bad then you need to realise that "SS is bad" is a meme. There's a reason SS is in the oft-quoted (and very useful) sticky there: it works. Most people aren't going to look aesthetic as hell after SS because they're focused on making huge strength gains in a short amount of time. They could eat less and watch their diet a bit more in order to keep BF percentages down and look a bit better, but their strength gains wouldn't be as high and it'd completely eliminate the point of the program.
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    (Original post by MancBoy)
    I have been going to the gym 3 times a week with this routine -

    Tues - Back + Biceps

    Thurs - Chest + Triceps

    Sat - Shoulders + Legs

    With 3 exercises and 3 sets on each muscle. I have been lifting hard(ish) always getting doms the next morning. However I have only noticed little to no gains. I have to admit my diet has been a little off. The past 2 months I have only started having 3 protein shakes a day with 1-2 meals. Here's current eating schedule -

    Morning - Oats + 2 eggs + orange juice
    Pre-workout - Protein shake (1 scoop)
    Post - Protein shake (1 scoop)
    Dinner - Usually white rice and chicken/lamb curry (homemade)
    Evening - Protein shake (1 scoop)
    Evening snack - Cheese toast/crisps/sandwich/chocolate (bit naughty!)

    Can anyone give me some pointers in how I can start seeing more gains?
    Personal Training? :nutcase:
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    I like dat full body workout 3 days a week
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    (Original post by Dark Horse)
    Well that guy is a troll, lol, and I hope the OP doesn't dismiss Starting Strength based on that. When your bulking you're going to lose abs and definition and it doesn't really matter what programme you're on because it's the calorific excess is what does it.

    I'm gonna lower my own kcal to stop myself becoming more and more blobbish.

    And well done on losing all that weight.
    That's exactly what I thought when he was saying that SS makes one fat. Also thanks for the weight loss comment
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    (Original post by JordanR)
    SS is "Starting Strength" and it's just exactly that. It's good for starting strength. Getting strength on your lifts so that you're able to move heavier weights. It's not "Starting Aesthetics." Rippletits has said that he doesn't give a crap about your aesthetics: it's purely a strength routine. It's a routine for beginners who want to get stronger. Not for someone who wants to look like Zyzz. Also, so you know, Zyzz was a huge fan of SS and the traditional compound lift movements. If you're not strong enough to move around decent amounts of weight then you're not going to be able to successfully induce hypertrophy when you're doing a bodybuilding split.

    If you're citing /fit/ as your source for SS being bad then you need to realise that "SS is bad" is a meme. There's a reason SS is in the oft-quoted (and very useful) sticky there: it works. Most people aren't going to look aesthetic as hell after SS because they're focused on making huge strength gains in a short amount of time. They could eat less and watch their diet a bit more in order to keep BF percentages down and look a bit better, but their strength gains wouldn't be as high and it'd completely eliminate the point of the program.
    Tbfh noobs should be able to make strength gains regardless, I don't really see why a noob should follow a strength program and get little hypertrophy when they could pretty much get similar strength gains and gain more mass with more volume. Unless getting strong is your sole purpose.
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    IMO your diet seems fine as long as your meals are big. For training try something like this.

    Train 3 days ABA BAB

    Workout A

    Squats 3x5
    Strict press 3x5
    Powercleans 5x3
    Incline dumbbell press 3x8
    Pull-ups 3x8

    Workout B

    Squats 3x5
    Bench 3x5
    Deadlift 1x5
    Dips 3x8
    Pull-ups 3x8

    You will get strong doing that and get your beloved T-shirt muscles also.

    Now if you want to stay lean you will also need to add in extra training 3 days a week so this could be sprinting, rugby, swimming, football, a fighting sport, circuit training, rock climbing etc

    3 days weights will grow you muscle but the other stuff will keep you lean and athletic and yes you will grow.
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    can people really gain on such low volume?
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    (Original post by JordanR)
    OP: You're not eating enough. And possibly you're not sleeping enough. If you want to make big changes then you're gonna have to stop a bodybuilding split like the one you're on and do a routine designed for strength gains first, like SS or SL.
    Why?

    SS is "Starting Strength" and it's just exactly that. It's good for starting strength. Getting strength on your lifts so that you're able to move heavier weights. It's not "Starting Aesthetics." Rippletits has said that he doesn't give a crap about your aesthetics: it's purely a strength routine. It's a routine for beginners who want to get stronger. Not for someone who wants to look like Zyzz.
    So why are you recommending it to somebody who wants to get bigger, rather than stronger, then?
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    Is that Bro-sama? We all know he does a lot of curlz :P

    (Original post by mikestraws)
    Dumbest post ever. You think SS or SL makes people fat? The way you eat makes you fat. Here's someone else who only does compound lifts.


    Funny how an entire argument changes when you select what pictures you use.

    It is widely known that a strength training routine foucsing on compound lifts is perfect for beginners. You will build the most strength, and if you need to, burn way more fat than you would doing a 3 day split with 10kg dumbells.
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    (Original post by Arturo Bandini)
    Why?



    So why are you recommending it to somebody who wants to get bigger, rather than stronger, then?
    Someone who squats 100kg will find it a hell of a lot easier to get big than someone who squats 50kg.
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    (Original post by tooosh)
    Someone who squats 100kg will find it a hell of a lot easier to get big than someone who squats 50kg.
    But a beginner can still pretty easily get to a 100kg squat on a bb routine if it's a sensible one with plenty of compound lifts
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    (Original post by sword)
    can people really gain on such low volume?
    The volume comes from hitting your core movements three times per week for 3 or 5 heavy sets of five. Compared to a bodybuilding split you might only be squatting once a week with moderate weights and a higher number of sets and reps (and lower overall volume) even though you may feel that you are working harder and getting a better workout.

    On a side note...

    Most people, beginners especially, benefit more from full body style routines (ie; high training frequency in the core lifts, high intensity, moderate volume) compared to bodybuilder style routines (ie; low training frequency in the core lifts, moderate/high intensity, high volume). Why? A significant proportion of the training adaptations in novices are neurogenic and skill based which respond better to lower volume, higher frequency and higher intensity work.

    Also bear in mind that you don't get bigger and stronger simply from lifting heavy weights for reps. You get bigger and stronger by recovering from lifting heavy weights for reps. For that reason many people benefit from slightly lower volumes that they can recover from quicker to maintain a higher workout intensity and frequency.
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    As someone has been doing SL5x5 since I started lifting seriously I would say it's a perfectly good routine for putting on size. If I was doing it again I would have thrown in a bicep and tricep isolation exercise from the start, because I would like dem t-shirt muscles.
    I'm not convinced that the SS and SL vs. bodypart splits debate is really relevant here, as long as you're training hard and hitting all bodyparts in the course of the week I don't see why either wouldn't be an effective training method. Most bodypart splits I've seen contain most of the big compound movements anyway.
    I believe that what separates the successful from the unsuccessful is nutrition. If you calculate your maintenance calories and consume 500cals above that, also getting enough protein (1g/per lb of lbm) I don't really see how you can fail to build muscle.
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    (Original post by Idle)
    Tbfh noobs should be able to make strength gains regardless, I don't really see why a noob should follow a strength program and get little hypertrophy when they could pretty much get similar strength gains and gain more mass with more volume. Unless getting strong is your sole purpose.
    Getting stronger will make hypertrophy easier when it comes to it.
    (Original post by Arturo Bandini)
    Why?



    So why are you recommending it to somebody who wants to get bigger, rather than stronger, then?
    Same reason as above. I'm not saying that isolation exercises are a bad move -- by all means incorporate curls into your workouts if you want. Important for aesthetics, I'd say. I just think it's important to base your workouts around heavy, compound lifts.
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    (Original post by JordanR)
    Getting stronger will make hypertrophy easier when it comes to it.
    True but do you believe you can only get stronger from such routines and not others?

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