[Llamageddon]

Japan is facing an unprecedented labour shortage in part due to this policy. I don't really have an opinion as to whether it's a good or bad idea but there are certainly consequences of reducing the influx of young, working age immigrants within the framework of an aging population.

Equally however Japan is bursting with people so maybe they just don't have enough room.

[whyumadtho]

(Original post by tufc)
Why is multiculturalism 'the way forward'? All I've ever seen it do is promote division and intolerance.

What is multiculturalism? Does there exist any sociocultural trait that all native Britons possess?

[Bonged.]

(Original post by whyumadtho)
What is multiculturalism? Does there exist any sociocultural trait that all native Britons possess?

Tolerating aspects of cultures that are in conflict with traditional British cultural values. Tolerating bad aspects of Islam for example.

That's utterly irrelevant.

[whyumadtho]

(Original post by Bonged.)
Tolerating aspects of cultures that are in conflict with traditional British cultural values. Tolerating bad aspects of Islam for example.

What are traditional British cultural values? What constitutes conflict, given, for example, the National Front and Green Party are at opposite ends of the political spectrum? Are atheists at conflict with British traditionalism? What about Satanists and Pagans? How far back does one go when invoking the notion of traditionalism? Isn't the only universal conflict with British values the act of breaking British law?

So multiculturalism is, in itself, the act of tolerance?

That's utterly irrelevant.

I asked you to tell me in the other thread what is socioculturally present in Britons to put them in one group and what isn't present in migrants to exclude them from this group, but you didn't. You should explain your position better instead of making bald assertions that they are two disparate groups because you said so.

[Bonged.]

(Original post by whyumadtho)
What are traditional British cultural values? What constitutes conflict, given, for example, the National Front and Green Party are at opposite ends of the political spectrum? Are atheists at conflict with British traditionalism? What about Satanists and Pagans? How far back does one go when invoking the notion of traditionalism? Isn't the only universal conflict with British values the act of breaking British law?

So multiculturalism is, in itself, the act of tolerance?

I asked you to tell me in the other thread what is socioculturally present in Britons to put them in one group and what isn't present in migrants to exclude them from this group, but you didn't. You should explain your position better instead of making bald assertions that they are two disparate groups because you said so.

See Britain pre 60s.

The dogma of "tolerance" yes. Such as tolerating ghettos, segregation, cultural values such as honour killings etc that are opposite to not just to British values, but general common sense.

And I informed you that this is irrelevant. If you simply want a definition of English, welsh, scottish or irish cultures you could just say that and I could quite easily answer as I have done multiple times with you before.

[whyumadtho]

(Original post by Bonged.)
See Britain pre 60s.

Pre-60s, where the evacuation during The Blitz revealed the stark sociocultural lacuna between working-class urban life and middle-class rurality? How is there an archetype of traditionalism where such sociocultural and behavioural disparities exist?

The dogma of "tolerance" yes. Such as tolerating ghettos, segregation, cultural values such as honour killings etc that are opposite to not just to British values, but general common sense.

Should the notion of a socioeconomically-enabled woman and homosexual relationships not be tolerated, as they weren't pre-60s, then?

And I informed you that this is irrelevant. If you simply want a definition of English, welsh, scottish or irish cultures you could just say that and I could quite easily answer as I have done multiple times with you before.

Define them.

[Bonged.]

(Original post by whyumadtho)
Pre-60s, where the evacuation during The Blitz revealed the stark sociocultural lacuna between working-class urban life and middle-class rurality? How is there an archetype of traditionalism where such sociocultural and behavioural disparities exist?

Should the notion of a socioeconomically-enabled woman and homosexual relationships not be tolerated, as they weren't pre-60s, then?

Define them.

These people were both English people, following different socio-economic and regional variations of the over arching English culture. So that's irrelevant really.

This is irrelevant. There is a difference when tolerating something that has no effect on you personally. Segregation, ghettos, honour killings etc are not to be tolerated. Are they?

Each one? Can I just do one or it will take ages.

[whyumadtho]

(Original post by Bonged.)
These people were both English people, following different socio-economic and regional variations of the over arching English culture. So that's irrelevant really.

What aspect was overarching?

This is irrelevant. There is a difference when tolerating something that has no effect on you personally. Segregation, ghettos, honour killings etc are not to be tolerated. Are they?

People are free to do whatever they want within the confines of the law and have variations in their level of tolerance for different activities, which is why the BNP, Green Party and National Front exist as legitimate parties. There isn't a guide for what should and should not be agreeable, Bonged.

Each one? Can I just do one or it will take ages.

For any culture/cultural trait you identify, there will be native Britons who do not possess that trait.

I don't care if you do one or all of them, as I am of the belief that the dynamism of social interaction cannot be encapsulated with any accuracy within a single label.

[Bonged.]

(Original post by whyumadtho)
What aspect was overarching?

People are free to do whatever they want within the confines of the law and have variations in their level of tolerance for different activities, which is why the BNP, Green Party and National Front exist as legitimate parties. There isn't a guide for what should and should not be agreeable, Bonged.

For any culture/cultural trait you identify, there will be native Britons who do not possess that trait.

I don't care if you do one or all of them, as I am of the belief that the dynamism of social interaction cannot be encapsulated with any accuracy within a single label.

Lol, culture doesn't have a single over arching aspect, it has norms, values, beliefs, rituals, which are themselves over arching when intertwined.

Odd for you to say that. Political correctness? Anyway these things are not to be tolerated. They are harmful.

Hence culture having more than one component.

Why ask if you have a predetermined dogma?

[whyumadtho]

(Original post by Bonged.)
Lol, culture doesn't have a single over arching aspect, it has norms, values, beliefs, rituals, which are themselves over arching when intertwined.

Identify them.

Odd for you to say that. Political correctness? Anyway these things are not to be tolerated. They are harmful.

People can do whatever they want within the confines of the law. Equally, you are within your right to disapprove.

Hence culture having more than one component.

What are the components that produce the culture? How many of these components are needed in an individual for them to be part of the culture?

Why ask if you have a predetermined dogma?

I've lost count of how many times you've avoided this question... Just tell me what this culture is.

[InvertedLayman]

(Original post by like a boss)
Japan is a difficult place for any foreigner to live in. Even if they strongly encouraged immigration I doubt those figures would change drastically.

This.

[Bonged.]

[QUOTE=whyumadtho;37224834]Identify them.

People can do whatever they want within the confines of the law. Equally, you are within your right to disapprove.

[QUOTE] Hence culture having more than one component.

What are the components that produce the culture? How many of these components are needed in an individual for them to be part of the culture?

I've lost count of how many times you've avoided this question... Just tell me what this culture is.

The same as any other country or group of people. the cultural inheritance of years of development within a certain area, this is manifest in architecture, literature, artistic expression, humour. Its very simple really.

[lumberjack77]

The Japanese media is controlled by Japanese people. Thats why they dont have mass immigration.

[dongonaeatu]

i just read this whole thread

[Tudball]

(Original post by Bonged.)
The same as any other country or group of people. the cultural inheritance of years of development within a certain area, this is manifest in architecture, literature, artistic expression, humour. Its very simple really.

I think you're confusing "culture" with "identity".

There is no standard British culture, nor is there a standard Japanese culture. On a cultural level, the Ainu descendent from Hokkaido will little in common with the burakumin butcher from Fukushima, who will have little in common with the businessman from Tokyo, etc.

Culture is not something consistent throughout a country, or even throughout a small group of people. I prefer a certain type of music, you prefer another. Our cultural conceptualisations are different, even on such a minute level.

One can, however, have a "national identity". A Yorkshire shopkeeper and a London executive might have little in common on a cultural level, but both would consider themselves "British". Both of them might be patriotic, even though their perceptions of what constitutes "Britishness" might be different.

Do you see what I mean?

[Bonged.]

(Original post by Tudball)
I think you're confusing "culture" with "identity".

There is no standard British culture, nor is there a standard Japanese culture. On a cultural level, the Ainu descendent from Hokkaido will little in common with the burakumin butcher from Fukushima, who will have little in common with the businessman from Tokyo, etc.

Culture is not something consistent throughout a country, or even throughout a small group of people. I prefer a certain type of music, you prefer another. Our cultural conceptualisations are different, even on such a minute level.

One can, however, have a "national identity". A Yorkshire shopkeeper and a London executive might have little in common on a cultural level, but both would consider themselves "British". Both of them might be patriotic, even though their perceptions of what constitutes "Britishness" might be different.

Do you see what I mean?

I do see what you mean, however I think that culture and identity are intertwined. Being culturally english doesn't mean you have to follow a certain stereotype. I would say that a yorkshire miner and a home counties aristocrat are both culturally english. Both follow variations of a culture native to England. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

[Tudball]

(Original post by Bonged.)
I do see what you mean, however I think that culture and identity are intertwined. Being culturally english doesn't mean you have to follow a certain stereotype. I would say that a yorkshire miner and a home counties aristocrat are both culturally english.

What do they necessarily share on a cultural level?
Keep in mind the word "necessarily". For your argument to hold, there must be something culturally overarching that connects all British people, no matter their origins.

[Bonged.]

(Original post by Tudball)
What do they necessarily share on a cultural level?
Keep in mind the word "necessarily". For your argument to hold, there must be something culturally overarching that connects all British people, no matter their origins.

Language? Instinctive queueing? lol. That is indicative of the kind of social contract people undertake in being English. Civility (expressed in queueing) is generally amplified in English culture, compared to some other cultures. These two men may also share a distinctly british, self deprecating form of humour.

[whyumadtho]

(Original post by Bonged.)
The same as any other country or group of people. the cultural inheritance of years of development within a certain area, this is manifest in architecture, literature, artistic expression, humour. Its very simple really.

Then anyone in the country can contribute to British culture and there is no such thing as multiculturalism within any given country.

[Tudball]

(Original post by Bonged.)
Language? Instinctive queueing? lol. That is indicative of the kind of social contract people undertake in being English. Civility (expressed in queueing) is generally amplified in English culture, compared to some other cultures. These two men may also share a distinctly british, self deprecating form of humour.

That's the problem, though. It's all about "may".

Some British folk might be rather adept as queuing, but others might be gits who shove people out of the way - are they less British because of it?

Some British folk have a self-depreciating form of humour, but others might find putting themselves down an affront - are they less British because of it?

It sounds like any deviation from the standard "English" (no less) stereotype is a deviation from being British.

I don't enjoy watching the Premier League - am I less British because of it?