[Baddream]

(Original post by muh123)
Think of it like football, this is very basic

The Quran - Rules

Hadith - Teaches how to play

You can't be a muslim by just following Quran, to be a muslim you believe in 1 god and that Muhammed PBUH is the last messenger.

So to discard the hadith is like refusing to believe what the prophet says and does.

Also I would advice you to not interoperate hadiths and quran by your self. If you have any questions go to a scholar. The fact that hadiths have contradictions is another matter, it's not a flaw the prophet might have said one thing to one person based on their circumstances and may have said something else to another person based on their circumstances even if it is on the same matter.

I don't want to go into too much detail but I don't think any tom dick and harry can interoperate the quran and understand it's full meaning especially if you don't know Arabic. The same goes for Hadiths

No way. The last thing I'd do is go to a scholar. Is the scholar going to pay for my sins on the day of judgement if he tells me something wrong and go on throughout my whole life believing it? God gave US the ability to verify everything for ourselves.
17:36- You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them.


Scholars are just interpreting the Quran just like we are. Admittedly, they do have years of experiences, but I think scholars are those that misguide Muslims the most.

[muh123]

(Original post by Baddream)
I understand your point, but the Quran repeats many times that we should not favour one prophet over the other. Why do we even include Muhammad in our prayers (I understand making dua for him, but almost dedicating your prayer to both him and God is just wrong)?

[Quran 20:14] I am God; there is no other God beside Me, Thus you shall worship me and observe the ‘Salat’ to commemorate Me.

It is because of Muhammed that you are muslim it's not favouring one prophet among another.

You follow the prophet of your Ummah and Muhammed PBUH is the prophet of our Ummah.

[Baddream]

(Original post by squishy123)
Why do you even include "Ibrahim" in your duas in Salah?

I don't

(Original post by nosaer)
You mean, like how to pray? Exactly.

Allah says everything He wants you to know about how to pray. The times of the prayers are included, and wudhu is included. The way most Muslims pray today is just so strict. Do you really think God would not accept your prayers if you had your hands in the wrong place, etc. Bowing down to him is included many times in the Quran. Apart from that, as long as you're dedicating the prayer to him alone, I'm sure it will still be accepted. God is All-Merciful.

[Baddream]

(Original post by muh123)
It is because of Muhammed that you are muslim it's not favouring one prophet among another.

You follow the prophet of your Ummah and Muhammed PBUH is the prophet of our Ummah.

I know he is the prophet of our ummah. It doesn't mean I have to associate him with God by continually including his name in the shahadah/prayers.

[muh123]

(Original post by Baddream)
No way. The last thing I'd do is go to a scholar. Is the scholar going to pay for my sins on the day of judgement if he tells me something wrong and go on throughout my whole life believing it? God gave US the ability to verify everything for ourselves.
17:36- You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them.


Scholars are just interpreting the Quran just like we are. Admittedly, they do have years of experiences, but I think scholars are those that misguide Muslims the most.

Ok how do muslims pray.

[squishy123]

(Original post by Baddream)
I don't

What do you read after "Tashahud"?

Oh, and do you even read the funeral prayers and how do Quranists do their Azaan?

[Baddream]

(Original post by squishy123)
What do you read after "Tashahud"?

I don't include that in my prayers, but once I finish reading the whole Quran, I'll let you know how I pray and whose names (if any) I include.

(Original post by muh123)
Ok how do muslims pray.

How ever they want to as long as they prostrate, do wudhu properly and pray with pure intentions.

[squishy123]

(Original post by Baddream)
I don't include that in my prayers, but once I finish reading the whole Quran, I'll let you know how I pray and whose names (if any) I include.

You don't include Tashahud. What do you do in that time then (after 2 rakaat sujood)?

[nosaer]

(Original post by Baddream)
I don't

Allah says everything He wants you to know about how to pray.

Please list the verse where Allah has said this.

The times of the prayers are included, and wudhu is included. The way most Muslims pray today is just so strict. Do you really think God would not accept your prayers if you had your hands in the wrong place, etc. Bowing down to him is included many times in the Quran. Apart from that, as long as you're dedicating the prayer to him alone, I'm sure it will still be accepted. God is All-Merciful.

You're sure? How can you be sure? At least justify your answer. Let's not be hypocritical here shall we? If you asked a scholar for an explanation but only received a "Im sure Im right" without any reasoning or justification, you say yourself, you wouldn't trust them. How are you any better? If you want to disregard what the scholars say, at least justify your own interpretation.

You have no idea how to pray if it weren't for following the prophet, as the Quran instructs us to do.

How ever they want to as long as they prostrate, do wudhu properly and pray with pure intentions.

And this goes back to the same question which is, how do you 'do wudhu properly'?

[muh123]

(Original post by Baddream)
No way. The last thing I'd do is go to a scholar. Is the scholar going to pay for my sins on the day of judgement if he tells me something wrong and go on throughout my whole life believing it? God gave US the ability to verify everything for ourselves.
17:36- You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them.


Scholars are just interpreting the Quran just like we are. Admittedly, they do have years of experiences, but I think scholars are those that misguide Muslims the most.

Also another thing is if you can't speak arabic or read arabic and understand it you have no right to interoperate the quran. If you're just reading a translation and trying to understand it from that then you're blindly following what the translator is telling you. It's not that you came to a conclusion you read his interoperation and merely accepted what he interoperated.

[fuze-mo25]

its not allowed to in islam to say someone is a believer or not its between them and god but yh is they do believe in the quran which clearly states "and follow lord and the prophet" many times. i dont see how a "quranist" cannot follow the sunnah n hadith

[tazarooni89]

I can sympathise with their position - that with Hadiths, its easy for mistakes to have been made in their transmission, it's easy to misunderstand the context or exactly what was meant by it, so they'd rather just follow the Qur'an, which is what they can be certain about. The reason I wouldn't agree with them though, is because the Qur'an itself says "Obey Allah and obey his messenger". How are you supposed to obey his messenger if you have no idea what he said?

My opinion is that of course, the Hadith aren't perfect and this should be kept in mind. But this isn't reason to completely throw them away. You can still get a decent overall picture of the Prophet's life and sayings from them.

[Spaz Man]

"I witness that there is no God but Allah and Muhammad is his messenger"

Pretty simple really. By rejecting hadith, you're rejecting half of the shahadah. EPIC FAIL...

[Baddream]

(Original post by muh123)
Also another thing is if you can't speak arabic or read arabic and understand it you have no right to interoperate the quran. If you're just reading a translation and trying to understand it from that then you're blindly following what the translator is telling you. It's not that you came to a conclusion you read his interoperation and merely accepted what he interoperated.

If you read more than 1 interpretation, you can come to a conclusion as to which interpretation makes the most sense. And I can't speak Arabic, so that's the best I can do.

Also, I am not (I repeat again) a Quranist. Questioning me on my personal beliefs does not represent their views.

(Original post by Spaz Man)
"I witness that there is no God but Allah and Muhammad is his messenger"

Pretty simple really. By rejecting hadith, you're rejecting half of the shahadah. EPIC FAIL...

The shahadah included in the Quran is "I witness that there is no God"...

(Original post by tazarooni89)
I can sympathise with their position - that with Hadiths, its easy for mistakes to have been made in their transmission, it's easy to misunderstand the context or exactly what was meant by it, so they'd rather just follow the Qur'an, which is what they can be certain about. The reason I wouldn't agree with them though, is because the Qur'an itself says "Obey Allah and obey his messenger". How are you supposed to obey his messenger if you have no idea what he said?

My opinion is that of course, the Hadith aren't perfect and this should be kept in mind. But this isn't reason to completely throw them away. You can still get a decent overall picture of the Prophet's life and sayings from them.

I agree with you. I do think it's good to get an overall idea of the prophet, but when the hadiths contradict themselves, how do you know which to trust?

[greengrapes]

http://nicheoftruth.org/pages/sunnah.htm

[MyselfEtAl]

(Original post by Baddream)
X

I'd be very wary about reading and interpreting the Qu'ran based solely on translation. There's a very famous Arabic saying; "The translator is a fool" which is very true in this case.

Let me explain the problem to you, the Qu'ran is free script, therefore something like: "Do not stop, let him go" could be interpreted as "Do not. Stop. Let him go". So, in reality, you're still reading the translation based on interpretation (from the translator). To study and interpret the Qu'ran independently you need to be well versed in Arabic, Islamic History and Hadith, so that you can cross-reference all of them to come up with an accurate answer - which is exactly what scholars do.

Of course, some of these Hadith are inauthentic etc but again, you can only know that if you have experience and knowledge of the above.

[tazarooni89]

(Original post by Baddream)
I agree with you. I do think it's good to get an overall idea of the prophet, but when the hadiths contradict themselves, how do you know which to trust?

You don't. But in that case, I think people should jsut be satisfied in saying "I don't know, I don't have enough information here", rather than insisting on some interpretation which may not necessarily be a correct one.

[Vixen47]

Sects shouldn't even exist in Islam.

The primary belief in Islam is that "there is no god but God and Muhammad is His messenger" so if a Qur'anist believes in that then they should be considered Muslim.

Imo, let them be: they're doing what they think is right like the rest of us.

[nosaer]

(Original post by Vixen47)
Sects shouldn't even exist in Islam.

The primary belief in Islam is that "there is no god but God and Muhammad is His messenger" so if a Qur'anist believes in that then they should be considered Muslim.

Imo, let them be: they're doing what they think is right like the rest of us.

Quranites only testify that "there is no god but God". So.....

[Perseveranze]

(Original post by Baddream)

Scholars are just interpreting the Quran just like we are. Admittedly, they do have years of experiences, but I think scholars are those that misguide Muslims the most.

Please show me your great classical Arabic skills that you've spent your whole life trying to learn to be able to interpret and understand years of Islamic history and scripture?

If you can't, then YOU and Scholars definitly interpet things differently for a reason.

People spend a 1/3 of their life learning Classical Arabic, and then 2/3's learning hadith and end up saying in regret; "If only I had spent 2/3's learning classical arabic, that I may have a better understanding of hadith".

Then we have people like you who read a couple of english translations, not knowing its meaning, it's context or anything and make judgements like "these hadiths are weird".

Quranists have been refuted time and time again, take a read here and try to answer these questions - http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/qu...l_responses_to

The Qur'an is the product given to mankind, from this product we can know what Allah(swt) wants mankind to do to be amongst the rightoues and go into paradise.

However, no product comes without a manual, some kind of "how to use this product" script. So what sense would it be for Allah(swt) to give us the product, but not the instructions manual? There isn't any, that's why we have the product (Qur'an) and the instructions (Hadith) which tells us how to use this product.

''It is not for a Believer, man or Women, when Allah and His Messeger have decreed a matter that they should have any opsion in thier decision. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messefnger, he has indeed strayed in a plain error. {Qur'an 33:36}