[Vixen47]

(Original post by translucent)
A question to a Muslim/anyone knowledgeable on Islam.

I don't get it? why did god purposefully not include how to pray in the quran... god is all knowing,all powerful so he would know 1400 years later Islam would still be present. It's one of the five pillars of islam surely it would be wise to include it in the quran?

Because that's not the only form of prayer: you pray when you're thinking about God; you can pray through meditation; people who are physically unable to do the actions required for salah simply sit on a chair and say the prayers. Prayer is basically communicating with God so it can be done in a number of ways.

[Vixen47]

(Original post by nosaer)
Quranites only testify that "there is no god but God". So.....

....it's a hard one.

I suppose all I can say now is that we're not ones to judge because at the end of the day, when judgement day arrives God will have the final answer as to whether they're Muslim or not. We don't know and we certainly can't base their beliefs on our opinions.

[hamzazulfiqar]

How can a Quranist claim to be a muslim if he/she dosen't follow the sunnah of Allahs greatest creation? Be serious.

[nosaer]

(Original post by Vixen47)
Because that's not the only form of prayer: you pray when you're thinking about God; you can pray through meditation; people who are physically unable to do the actions required for salah simply sit on a chair and say the prayers. Prayer is basically communicating with God so it can be done in a number of ways.

He is talking about Salat. It is the main form of prayer. It is obligatory on every Muslim. It is the first thing a Muslim will be held to account on the day of judgement. There are other forms of worship, correct, but they do not and cannot take the place of the five daily prayers.

[DJkG.1]

I resent the term 'Quranist' - are you not adding yet another sect to what is already a wrongful collection of sects so-called?

I have a friend who goes by this ideology however, he's even written book chapters on it. Don't know enough to judge but it is certainly worth a think, long and proper.

[jumpingjesusholycow]

(Original post by Addzter)
Really? That's one of the biggest problems in "Muslimdom?"

Yep. Far too many Muslims judging other Muslims, far too little unity.

Muslims will never fare well recognising the unity of humanity across religions if they're incapable of recognising the unity of Muslims in Islam.

[Leon Trotsky]

(Original post by jumpingjesusholycow)
Yep. Far too many Muslims judging other Muslims, far too little unity.

Muslims will never fare well recognising the unity of humanity across religions if they're incapable of recognising the unity of Muslims in Islam.

I can think of serveral far more pressing issues within Islam than one sect thinking that another sect aren't true Muslims.

The only route religious people see to uniting humanity is if everyone shares their beliefs as closely as possible.

[harmony_01]

(Original post by jumpingjesusholycow)
Yep. Far too many Muslims judging other Muslims, far too little unity.

Muslims will never fare well recognising the unity of humanity across religions if they're incapable of recognising the unity of Muslims in Islam.

Meh. It's not a boring religion, you can have different views, that doesn't necessarily mean Muslims can't establish outer-unity, after all a large percentage do share core values. All that is needed is someone to consolidate that position. Preferably, not someone like Assad or Zardari. The Muslim world is overrun with these guys.

[jumpingjesusholycow]

(Original post by harmony_01)
Meh. It's not a boring religion, you can have different views, that doesn't necessarily mean Muslims can't establish outer-unity, after all a large percentage do share core values. All that is needed is someone to consolidate that position. Preferably, not someone like Assad or Zardari. The Muslim world is overrun with these guys.

I agree, it isn't a boring religion. My family is Muslim lol.

However, Muslims have historically and (in my opinion) culturally clashed and shown a fundamental inability to look to fellow Muslims for unity. Most tend to stay within a certain sect, ethnic following or cultural tradition within Islam and few seek pan-Islamic unity whether that's culturally or politically.

[jumpingjesusholycow]

(Original post by Addzter)
I can think of serveral far more pressing issues within Islam than one sect thinking that another sect aren't true Muslims.

The only route religious people see to uniting humanity is if everyone shares their beliefs as closely as possible.

Well given that the aforementioned attitude has lead to the slaughtering of many lives and potential (and actual) war, I would say it's pretty pressing if not the most important issue facing the Islamic world (and its diaspora). When this issue is fixed, I have little doubt that there will be many improvements in the mindset of the international Islamic community.

[harmony_01]

(Original post by jumpingjesusholycow)
I agree, it isn't a boring religion. My family is Muslim lol.

However, Muslims have historically and (in my opinion) culturally clashed and shown a fundamental inability to look to fellow Muslims for unity. Most tend to stay within a certain sect, ethnic following or cultural tradition within Islam and few seek pan-Islamic unity whether that's culturally or politically.

Society will always be divided into subgroups. Personally speaking, Muslims seem to get on here fine with one another. Mecca has an extraordinary mix of cultures to the point it has been described as quite a liberal city compared to the rest of Saudi Arabia in the New York times, where Islamic theology is readily debated.

[Leon Trotsky]

(Original post by jumpingjesusholycow)
Well given that the aforementioned attitude has lead to the slaughtering of many lives and potential (and actual) war, I would say it's pretty pressing if not the most important issue facing the Islamic world (and its diaspora). When this issue is fixed, I have little doubt that there will be many improvements in the mindset of the international Islamic community.

How could it possibly be fixed? What rational way is there to solve, rather than simply mitigate, the problem of a group of people thinking that their inherently irrational beliefs are superior to those of another group that doesn't involve the unlikely scenario of one or both groups renouncing said beliefs?

(Original post by jumpingjesusholycow)
However, Muslims have historically and (in my opinion) culturally clashed and shown a fundamental inability to look to fellow Muslims for unity. Most tend to stay within a certain sect, ethnic following or cultural tradition within Islam and few seek pan-Islamic unity whether that's culturally or politically.

That's not a Muslim trait it's a human one, and it's not something than can be easily (if at all) solved.

[Vintage <3]

(Original post by squishy123)
You wouldn't even be able say the SHAHADAH (confirmation needed?) or even your Salah without the Hadiths.

I'm curious as to how the Quranists will pray their Salah which is one of the five fundamental pillars.

Right on!

[sexbo]

Somebody please educate me. What are hadiths? I thought The Quran was the be all end all of Islam?

[amerzeb]

Also a quranist is not allowed to eat fish because it says in the quran Allah says:

'Say (O Muhammad SAW): "I find not in that which has been revealed to me anything forbidden to be eaten by one who wishes to eat it, unless it be Maitah (a dead animal) or blood poured forth (by slaughtering or the like), or the flesh of swine (pork) for that surely is impure, or impious (unlawful) meat (of an animal) which is slaughtered as a sacrifice for others than Allâh (or has been slaughtered for idols or on which Allâh's Name has not been mentioned while slaughtering). But whosoever is forced by necessity without wilful disobedience, nor transgressing due limits, (for him) certainly, your Lord is Oft¬Forgiving, Most Merciful." 6:145

While in the hadith it says
Moreover, Sayyiduna Abd Allah ibn Umar (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him eternal peace) said: “Two types of dead meat and two types of blood have been made lawful for our consumption: The two dead meats are: fish and locust, and the two types of blood are: liver and spleen.” (Sunan Abu Dawud, Musnad Ahmad, 2/97 and Sunan Ibn Majah, no: 3314)

[Baddream]

(Original post by DJkG.1)
I resent the term 'Quranist' - are you not adding yet another sect to what is already a wrongful collection of sects so-called?

I have a friend who goes by this ideology however, he's even written book chapters on it. Don't know enough to judge but it is certainly worth a think, long and proper.

I do resent it and I didn't even know not following the haidth was considered a sect until last week. But it's the only way people will know who I'm referring to.

(Original post by hamzazulfiqar)
How can a Quranist claim to be a muslim if he/she dosen't follow the sunnah of Allahs greatest creation? Be serious.

How can a Sunni/Shia, etc claim to be a Muslim when they look to the hadiths/sunnah for guidance more than they look to the Quran which is God's own words?

(Original post by sexbo)
Somebody please educate me. What are hadiths? I thought The Quran was the be all end all of Islam?

The Quran is the main book of the religion. Years after the prophet died, some scholars and people decided to recollect stories of the life of the prophet & further explain the Quran in a set of different books called the hadith.

(Original post by amerzeb)
Also a quranist is not allowed to eat fish because it says in the quran Allah says:

'Say (O Muhammad SAW): "I find not in that which has been revealed to me anything forbidden to be eaten by one who wishes to eat it, unless it be Maitah (a dead animal) or blood poured forth (by slaughtering or the like), or the flesh of swine (pork) for that surely is impure, or impious (unlawful) meat (of an animal) which is slaughtered as a sacrifice for others than Allâh (or has been slaughtered for idols or on which Allâh's Name has not been mentioned while slaughtering). But whosoever is forced by necessity without wilful disobedience, nor transgressing due limits, (for him) certainly, your Lord is Oft¬Forgiving, Most Merciful." 6:145

That's actually a good point. The translation they follow says:

6:145 "Say, 'I do not find in the revelations given to me any food that is prohibited for any eater except carrion, running blood, the meat of pigs for it is contaminated and the meat of animals blasphemously dedicated to other than God".

So fish has to be halal also?

[amerzeb]

(Original post by Baddream)
That's actually a good point. The translation they follow says:

6:145 "Say, 'I do not find in the revelations given to me any food that is prohibited for any eater except carrion, running blood, the meat of pigs for it is contaminated and the meat of animals blasphemously dedicated to other than God".

So fish has to be halal also?

where would fish be classed in this verse? would it be a carrion?

[Perseveranze]

(Original post by sexbo)
Somebody please educate me. What are hadiths? I thought The Quran was the be all end all of Islam?

Hadiths are the sayings and actions of the Prophet(pbuh). In other words, the Sunnah of the Prophet(pbuh).

Aisha (May Allah be pleased with her) described him as, "His character was just (a reflection of) the Quran." (Muslim, Abu Dawood, Ahmad)

[mel0n]

(Original post by Baddream)

How can a Sunni/Shia, etc claim to be a Muslim when they look to the hadiths/sunnah for guidance more than they look to the Quran which is God's own words?

May Allaah protect us all. What's disturbing is that you seem to have taken it upon yourself to interpret the Qur'an based on a translation, forgetting how complex the Arabic language is and totally disregarding the efforts of past scholars to preserve the Qur'ans meaning without it being taken and distorted in a manner that you are doing. The reason half of the divisions in the ummah probably exist are because of people like yourself who think they are capable of interpreting the rulings. Of course the Qur'an is for everyone and the message is for everyone but deriving your own rulings from it and deciding what's haram/halal? You're not even reading the Arabic and from thereon coming to conclusions, rather you're reading a translation in which meaning is often lost and one has to keep that in mind anyway.

[jumpingjesusholycow]

(Original post by Addzter)
How could it possibly be fixed? What rational way is there to solve, rather than simply mitigate, the problem of a group of people thinking that their inherently irrational beliefs are superior to those of another group that doesn't involve the unlikely scenario of one or both groups renouncing said beliefs?

That's not a Muslim trait it's a human one, and it's not something than can be easily (if at all) solved.

Europeans seem to have gotten the picture. After centuries of bloody rivalry and continuous wars - Europe has founded a union based on shared humanity with a view to mutual prosperity. There is no reason why such a shift in Islamic attitudes can not be attained. Though I'd like to see what your experience of the Islamic community is, it doesn't seem like you attain your authority on the subject anywhere but from thin air.