[ak137]

(Original post by Dirac Delta Function)
Yes, and it's sectarian. It's hostile to people of religions/sects different to it.

In theory, there are no sects in Islam. And it is not hostile:

“Let there be no compulsion in religion. Truth has been made clear from error. Whoever rejects false worship and believes in God has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that never breaks. And God hears and knows all things.” (Quran 2:256)

Considering you're self hating Arab, Im not surprised.

[Perseveranze]

(Original post by Ayshizzle)
Sorry but how do you know this?

Based on every arguement I've seen from them. I've actually even conviced 2-3 in the past to change back to Sunni islam. Alot of the time, it's just their misconception based on placing judgement on "english translated" hadiths.

(Original post by Ayshizzle)
So, you are saying that there can be no faults found with them at all?

Ofcourse there are faults with the weaker/fabricated hadiths. That's why you have "Hadith Science". But those that are say; Mutawutir, we do not believe there are faults. Otherwise we're always 100% honest and critical with each hadith, and will mention any flaws that might come with any single given narration.

Here's the classifications;

• Mutawatir - Consecutive: is a hadith which is reported by such a large number of people that they cannot be expected to agree upon a lie, all of them together.
  
• Ahad - isolated: is a hadith which is narrated by people whose number does not reach that of the mutawatir. It is further classified into:
  
  
  
  • Mash'hur - famous: hadith reported by more than two reporters.
    
  • `Aziz - rare, strong: at any stage in the isnad, only two reporters are found to narrate the hadith.
    
  • Gharib - strange: At some stage of the isnad, only one reporter is found relating it.

You can read more about it here - http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Had...dsciences.html

[Luxray]

I really respect Quranists because I do feel they seem more open to hearing views and forming their own understanding. Islam brings a connection between Allah and his followers and I think purely focusing on the Quran doesn't hinder that.
I mean the Hadith are essentially observations of the Prophet? whereas the Quran isn't, this was passed down from Allah. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Ayshizzle]

(Original post by Perseveranze)
Based on every arguement I've seen from them. I've actually even conviced 2-3 in the past to change back to Sunni islam. Alot of the time, it's just their misconception based on placing judgement on "english translated" hadiths.

Fair enough, but I have come across a fair few Quranists who knew their stuff.

Ofcourse there are faults with the weaker/fabricated hadiths. That's why you have "Hadith Science". But those that are say; Mutawutir, we do not believe there are faults.

Here's the classifications;

• Mutawatir - Consecutive: is a hadith which is reported by such a large number of people that they cannot be expected to agree upon a lie, all of them together.
  
• Ahad - isolated: is a hadith which is narrated by people whose number does not reach that of the mutawatir. It is further classified into:
  
  
  
  • Mash'hur - famous: hadith reported by more than two reporters.
    
  • `Aziz - rare, strong: at any stage in the isnad, only two reporters are found to narrate the hadith.
    
  • Gharib - strange: At some stage of the isnad, only one reporter is found relating it.

You can read more about it here - http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Had...dsciences.html

I think I've read that page before- looks familiar!

But this still does not explain why there are some problems with the Sahih hadith...

[Dirac Delta Function]

(Original post by ak137)
In theory, there are no sects in Islam. And it is not hostile:

“Let there be no compulsion in religion. Truth has been made clear from error. Whoever rejects false worship and believes in God has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that never breaks. And God hears and knows all things.” (Quran 2:256)

Considering you're self hating Arab, Im not surprised.

Oh, in theory, right....if only we could test that theory...

Yeh it's not hostile, it just happened to expand through conquest, subjugates minorities, and has a multi-tier legal system where being anything other than someone within a strict-definition of "Muslim" makes you a second class citizen in the eyes of law and society.

Saudi Arabia is just a great place to be a non-Muslim....

And I don't know where you get the idea I'm "self-hating".

[Ali1991]

The same people who narrated the hadith are the people who narrated the Quran, so I wonder why Quranists consider all or the vast majority of hadith to be false yet fully accept the Quran as true and unaltered.

[Ali1991]

(Original post by Perseveranze)
Based on every arguement I've seen from them. I've actually even conviced 2-3 in the past to change back to Sunni islam. Alot of the time, it's just their misconception based on placing judgement on "english translated" hadiths.



Ofcourse there are faults with the weaker/fabricated hadiths. That's why you have "Hadith Science". But those that are say; Mutawutir, we do not believe there are faults. Otherwise we're always 100% honest and critical with each hadith, and will mention any flaws that might come with any single given narration.

Here's the classifications;

• Mutawatir - Consecutive: is a hadith which is reported by such a large number of people that they cannot be expected to agree upon a lie, all of them together.
  
• Ahad - isolated: is a hadith which is narrated by people whose number does not reach that of the mutawatir. It is further classified into:
  
  
  
  • Mash'hur - famous: hadith reported by more than two reporters.
    
  • `Aziz - rare, strong: at any stage in the isnad, only two reporters are found to narrate the hadith.
    
  • Gharib - strange: At some stage of the isnad, only one reporter is found relating it.

You can read more about it here - http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Had...dsciences.html

Hadith "science" is a late invention full of flaws. The prophet himself nor the Quran mentions how to grade hadith in this detailed way, yet many Muslims especially Salafis still act as if it anything more than guesswork.

[Ayshizzle]

(Original post by Ali1991)
The same people who narrated the hadith are the people who narrated the Quran, so I wonder why Quranists consider all or the vast majority of hadith to be false yet fully accept the Quran as true and unaltered.

I thought you thought Allah narrated the Qur'an through the Prophet?

[Ali1991]

(Original post by Ayshizzle)
I thought you thought Allah narrated the Qur'an through the Prophet?

The Quran wasn't written down in book form during the lives of the Prophet. It was only compiled into a boom around 20 years later during the time of Uthman based on the recitations of a few of the Prophet's companions.

[Luxray]

(Original post by mel0n)
Someone already said it - how would you even know how to pray if you don't follow ahadith? Isn't being a Quranist a bit self-contradictory considering the fact that the Qur'an states on multiple occasions (correct me if I'm wrong) to follow the way and the sunnah of the holy prophet pbuh - how exactly does a Quranist go about doing that if they aren't willing to consider hadiths?

Often there are less contradictions than an individual thinks and sometimes it is down to the person's own understanding.

But if the Hadith is essentially just observations and accounts from other people about the Prophet, how can we be 100% sure that it's accurate. With the Quran everything must be accurate.

[Ayshizzle]

(Original post by Ali1991)
The Quran wasn't written down in book form during the lives of the Prophet. It was only compiled into a boom around 20 years later during the time of Uthman based on the recitations of a few of the Prophet's companions.

It was written down at the time of the Prophet, he had scribes. It was compiled 20 years after he died. But whether the actual Qur'an revealed to the prophet is the same as the one we have is a mystery...

[Luxray]

(Original post by DJkG.1)
I resent the term 'Quranist' - are you not adding yet another sect to what is already a wrongful collection of sects so-called?

I have a friend who goes by this ideology however, he's even written book chapters on it. Don't know enough to judge but it is certainly worth a think, long and proper.

Wrongful collection of sects? So which sect is right? That to me sounds like 'I'm right, you're wrong'. Can't we have mutual respect between each 'sect'?

[amerzeb]

(Original post by Luxray)
But if the Hadith is essentially just observations and accounts from other people about the Prophet, how can we be 100% sure that it's accurate. With the Quran everything must be accurate.

that is why we have authentic sources, weak sources and fabricated sources.

[Ali1991]

(Original post by Ayshizzle)
It was written down at the time of the Prophet, he had scribes. It was compiled 20 years after he died. But whether the actual Qur'an revealed to the prophet is the same as the one we have is a mystery...

yeh i said in book form; when compiling and after that transmitting it to later generations, who knows what verses were left out or added, either by mistake or intentionally...check what omar says about the verse of stoning

[Luxray]

(Original post by Darth Stewie)
They believe in lashings for fornicators or adulterers as per the Quran but the stoning of adulterers under Sharia law comes from the Sunnah so they reject it.

Humans punishing gay people is purely a non quranic thing, the Quran pretty much says their punishment will be handled by their god so Quranists don't think it's their place to punish homosexuals although i would imagine many disagree with it.

Are you a muslim by any chance?

[ak137]

(Original post by Dirac Delta Function)
Oh, in theory, right....if only we could test that theory...

Yeh it's not hostile, it just happened to expand through conquest, subjugates minorities, and has a multi-tier legal system where being anything other than someone within a strict-definition of "Muslim" makes you a second class citizen in the eyes of law and society.

Saudi Arabia is just a great place to be a non-Muslim....

And I don't know where you get the idea I'm "self-hating".

Saudi Arabia is governed by sweaty dirty thieving royals and you think they are representative for Islam? LOL

You are a self hating Arab, mate. Its a shame the Westerners overthrew your secular government in 2003, which you ironically supported, lol.

[Luxray]

(Original post by amerzeb)
that is why we have authentic sources, weak sources and fabricated sources.

How can we be so sure some sources are authentic? The only 100% credible source is the Quran, why shouldnt we just follow that.

[Ayshizzle]

(Original post by Ali1991)
yeh i said in book form; when compiling and after that transmitting it to later generations, who knows what verses were left out or added, either by mistake or intentionally...check what omar says about the verse of stoning

Ah, sorry about that. Could you provide me with a source for the bolded bit?

[Luxray]

(Original post by squishy123)
I wonder how they perform their prayer seeing as it's not in the Quran and how they only pray two as opposed to five and where they got the impression that Friday prayers are not obligatory because I can assure you, those aspects are certainly NOT in the Quran.



Funny because following the Prophet Muhammad, as recorded by the Hadiths, is obligatory and even more so for the Quranists.

4:37 - What comes to you of good is from Allah , but what comes to you of evil, [O man], is from yourself. And We have sent you, [O Muhammad], to the people as a messenger, and sufficient is Allah as Witness.

4:38 - He who obeys the Messenger has obeyed Allah ; but those who turn away - We have not sent you over them as a guardian.

Funny that you use a Hadith to justify Hadith are necessary. If you want to tell a Quranist to become a Sunni then use verses from the Quran to help prove your point not the Hadith.

[Ayshizzle]

(Original post by Luxray)
Funny that you use a Hadith to justify Hadith are necessary. If you want to tell a Quranist to become a Sunni then use verses from the Quran to help prove your point not the Hadith.

It's interesting that the Hadith themselves say that Muhammad said not to write anything else from him except the Qur'an.