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did zidane have any flaws?
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i don't get why im constantly being perm banned, we're having a healthy discussion here
**** off, scum
**** off, scum
Original post by Victor-PP
Massive mega lol.
Messi has scored quite a few headers (Recall the last CL final?). And he could have scored many more if Barça played that way.
He can't skill up players? No comments.
He can't carry his team? He wins half of the games himself!
Messi has scored quite a few headers (Recall the last CL final?). And he could have scored many more if Barça played that way.
He can't skill up players? No comments.
He can't carry his team? He wins half of the games himself!
Do you recall last years CL final? From what I remember barca dominated the game through the midfield 3 and pressured well high up the pitch stunting man utd's play. Messi scored a goal from defending mistake of standing off him at 20 yards, he didn't win the game the Barcelona team did, and I am a united fan.
As for Zizu his temper was his only downfall it wasn't just that one outburst. But he was my favourite player he made everything look effortless and beautiful absolutely stunning player. Have you seen him playing 5 a side or futsal he is simply a genius.
Messi is the best not a fan of him but he is, Zizu is one of my favourite players
Original post by craglyboy
Do you recall last years CL final? From what I remember barca dominated the game through the midfield 3 and pressured well high up the pitch stunting man utd's play. Messi scored a goal from defending mistake of standing off him at 20 yards, he didn't win the game the Barcelona team did, and I am a united fan.
As for Zizu his temper was his only downfall it wasn't just that one outburst. But he was my favourite player he made everything look effortless and beautiful absolutely stunning player. Have you seen him playing 5 a side or futsal he is simply a genius.
Messi is the best not a fan of him but he is, Zizu is one of my favourite players
As for Zizu his temper was his only downfall it wasn't just that one outburst. But he was my favourite player he made everything look effortless and beautiful absolutely stunning player. Have you seen him playing 5 a side or futsal he is simply a genius.
Messi is the best not a fan of him but he is, Zizu is one of my favourite players
Sorry, I stand corrected. He scored in the 2008 CL final against Man Utd. Barça won 2-0.
Original post by AntiMonarchist
I dont believe what happened in WC 06 should taint his career.
Fantastic player, I just loved the galactico years at Madrid.
my fave players all in one dream team: zizou, Ronaldo, becks, raul, roberto carlos
sure beats cristiano, ozil, kaka and benzema
Fantastic player, I just loved the galactico years at Madrid.
my fave players all in one dream team: zizou, Ronaldo, becks, raul, roberto carlos
sure beats cristiano, ozil, kaka and benzema
I remember playing FIFA in like 2003/04 and you would get a massive budget with Madrid but you would never have to spend it all my favourite players were already there!!!
Original post by tittyMilk
he can header, finish, keep possession, pass, dribble, take penaulties, take corners, take freekicks, skill up players, his positioning was perfect, had good body strength, never dived (stayed on his feet whenever he could) etc.
messi can't header, he can't skill up players (just dribbles past em), can't carry a team.
people will say messi doesn't need to be able to header or carry his team because barcelona don't play that way. well well well, it's no surprise he's useless outside of barcelona then. as opposed to zidane who brought success to every team he played for, he was a true team player.
i guess the one thing you could say about zidane was he wasn't fast, but that credits him more than anything. the way he played didn't require pace because he was almost impossible to dispossess anyway.
Desailly - "There is no way to stop him. There is no secret to Zizou"
Marcelo Lippi - "You never needed to tell him anything as he did it all by himself"
Carlo Ancelotti - "Remembering Zidane is how I brought success Chelsea " (when Chelsea had a good start to the season)
Carlo Ancelotti - "Zidane is the footballer who has made me enjoy my life the most, a living spectacle that needs to be seen every day. Training was his passion and ours as well. He would invent and we would watch. You admire him."
does anyone disagree with me when i say Zidane was flawless? if so, what were his flaws? he came out of retirement and carried france to the WC06 final, this was his performance:
messi can't header, he can't skill up players (just dribbles past em), can't carry a team.
people will say messi doesn't need to be able to header or carry his team because barcelona don't play that way. well well well, it's no surprise he's useless outside of barcelona then. as opposed to zidane who brought success to every team he played for, he was a true team player.
i guess the one thing you could say about zidane was he wasn't fast, but that credits him more than anything. the way he played didn't require pace because he was almost impossible to dispossess anyway.
Desailly - "There is no way to stop him. There is no secret to Zizou"
Marcelo Lippi - "You never needed to tell him anything as he did it all by himself"
Carlo Ancelotti - "Remembering Zidane is how I brought success Chelsea " (when Chelsea had a good start to the season)
Carlo Ancelotti - "Zidane is the footballer who has made me enjoy my life the most, a living spectacle that needs to be seen every day. Training was his passion and ours as well. He would invent and we would watch. You admire him."
does anyone disagree with me when i say Zidane was flawless? if so, what were his flaws? he came out of retirement and carried france to the WC06 final, this was his performance:
They are two different players mate.
Lets say Messi can't "skill players up" (even though in my opinion he can). Running past them does the same job - if not better - so you cannot count that against him at all. Why would you bother "skilling people up" when it isn't your style and you have the ability to beat them more simply.
Messi doesn't keep possession 100% of the time and dominate the whole game for Barca like Zidane did at Madrid. The reason is not that Zidane is better, the reason is that he is a striker and zidane was a midfielder ! Barca already have players who fill that role like Xavi etc so Messi doesn't try - he tries to score goals, something he does amazingly well.
Messi wins games on his own with the amount of goals he scores and sets up, he is the focal point of the best team in the world. He certainly "carries" Barca regularly by scoring goals much more prolifically than Zidane.
Messi's form outside of Barca is certainly not due to his ability, it could be one of a thousand different factors like the way Argentina play, the pressure of a whole nation expecting you to play like a God, time needed to adjust to different support players etc etc
Zidane was an amazing player and so is Messi, but of a completely different type.
If I had to say which was better it'd be Messi. Several players can do what Zidane did really well if not as well as him e.g. Scholes and Xavi but none can come close to Messi.
Original post by tittyMilk
he can header, finish, keep possession, pass, dribble, take penaulties, take corners, take freekicks, skill up players, his positioning was perfect, had good body strength, never dived (stayed on his feet whenever he could) etc.
messi can't header, he can't skill up players (just dribbles past em), can't carry a team.
messi can't header, he can't skill up players (just dribbles past em), can't carry a team.
[video="youtube;zk3ehSGgr1w"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk3ehSGgr1w&feature=my_liked_videos&list=LLGdHpqdnOuiRvniPS-ydbaA[/video]
Sorry what was that?
Original post by tittyMilk
carrying a team is about having total dominance over how they play. its about being the focal point of everything; instigating every attack, being involved in everything that happens in the football pitch, being the guy that your teammates pass to whenever they're in trouble
carrying a team is about having total dominance over how they play. its about being the focal point of everything; instigating every attack, being involved in everything that happens in the football pitch, being the guy that your teammates pass to whenever they're in trouble
You just described Messi
To the people referencing to the headbut as a 'flaw', I guarantee that barely anyone cares about that when talking about his strengths and weaknesses. It will probably be forgotten in a few years and he'll be remembered as one of the greatest of all time, regardless of his moment of madness.
Zidane is the greatest player I've seen in my life time barring Messi. He's certainly the best player of his generation (although I think fat Ronaldo could have been better if his career wasn't so injury plagued early on in his career). When it comes to him against Messi, I don't know now. Messi is far superior club wise; Zidane is far superior international wise (as of now).
When all is said and done, Messi will go down as better than Zidane (and probably everyone else). IMO, Zidane is top 5 of all time, but that's probably because I haven't seen many of the oldies play.
Zidane was a genius. I haven't seen anybody like him capable of dominating a game with so many different attributes. He had amazing vision, passing, skills and scoring.
Zidane is the greatest player I've seen in my life time barring Messi. He's certainly the best player of his generation (although I think fat Ronaldo could have been better if his career wasn't so injury plagued early on in his career). When it comes to him against Messi, I don't know now. Messi is far superior club wise; Zidane is far superior international wise (as of now).
When all is said and done, Messi will go down as better than Zidane (and probably everyone else). IMO, Zidane is top 5 of all time, but that's probably because I haven't seen many of the oldies play.
Zidane was a genius. I haven't seen anybody like him capable of dominating a game with so many different attributes. He had amazing vision, passing, skills and scoring.
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by see-are
They are two different players mate.
Lets say Messi can't "skill players up" (even though in my opinion he can). Running past them does the same job - if not better - so you cannot count that against him at all. Why would you bother "skilling people up" when it isn't your style and you have the ability to beat them more simply.
Lets say Messi can't "skill players up" (even though in my opinion he can). Running past them does the same job - if not better - so you cannot count that against him at all. Why would you bother "skilling people up" when it isn't your style and you have the ability to beat them more simply.
messi will try to run past players time and time again, then eventually it will work. ZZ will try that twice in a match and it will work both times
Original post by see-are
Messi doesn't keep possession 100% of the time and dominate the whole game for Barca like Zidane did at Madrid. The reason is not that Zidane is better, the reason is that he is a striker and zidane was a midfielder ! Barca already have players who fill that role like Xavi etc so Messi doesn't try - he tries to score goals, something he does amazingly well.
how the **** are you putting scholes and zidane in the same sentence? not even xavi is as good as ZZ
Original post by see-are
Messi's form outside of Barca is certainly not due to his ability, it could be one of a thousand different factors like the way Argentina play, the pressure of a whole nation expecting you to play like a God, time needed to adjust to different support players etc etc
did the whole of france not expect zidane to play like a god? he did it anyway..
Original post by see-are
Zidane was an amazing player and so is Messi, but of a completely different type.
If I had to say which was better it'd be Messi. Several players can do what Zidane did really well if not as well as him e.g. Scholes and Xavi but none can come close to Messi.
If I had to say which was better it'd be Messi. Several players can do what Zidane did really well if not as well as him e.g. Scholes and Xavi but none can come close to Messi.
fat ronaldo did what messi did 10x better (that is, get past players and score goals).
i'd put ronaldinho and ronaldo ahead of messi. they even have a world cup to their name unlike messi.
Original post by tittyMilk2
i didn't say being able to skill players up makes you better. it's just a proof of good techinical ability and is another reason why ZZ was the most entertaining player
messi will try to run past players time and time again, then eventually it will work. ZZ will try that twice in a match and it will work both times
messi isn't a striker, he's an attacking midfielder. david villa is barcelona's main striker
how the **** are you putting scholes and zidane in the same sentence? not even xavi is as good as ZZ
so why is it that zidane was able to bring success to and carry every team he played for? messi only has to prove himself to barcelona and argentina, zidane proved himself to like 4 different teams. he scored the best champions league goal of all time
did the whole of france not expect zidane to play like a god? he did it anyway..
lawl.. several players can do what zidane did but noone can come close to messi? again, stop comparing zidane to scholes and xavi, because first of all, scholes is not up there with the greats, and secondly, zidane could do everything xavi does and more. zidane was literally unstoppable
fat ronaldo did what messi did 10x better (that is, get past players and score goals).
i'd put ronaldinho and ronaldo ahead of messi. they even have a world cup to their name unlike messi.
messi will try to run past players time and time again, then eventually it will work. ZZ will try that twice in a match and it will work both times
messi isn't a striker, he's an attacking midfielder. david villa is barcelona's main striker
how the **** are you putting scholes and zidane in the same sentence? not even xavi is as good as ZZ
so why is it that zidane was able to bring success to and carry every team he played for? messi only has to prove himself to barcelona and argentina, zidane proved himself to like 4 different teams. he scored the best champions league goal of all time
did the whole of france not expect zidane to play like a god? he did it anyway..
lawl.. several players can do what zidane did but noone can come close to messi? again, stop comparing zidane to scholes and xavi, because first of all, scholes is not up there with the greats, and secondly, zidane could do everything xavi does and more. zidane was literally unstoppable
fat ronaldo did what messi did 10x better (that is, get past players and score goals).
i'd put ronaldinho and ronaldo ahead of messi. they even have a world cup to their name unlike messi.
Yet Messi has a better scoring record than him? You really are clueless. Plus Messi is a striker.
Original post by Jordan_1
Yet Messi has a better scoring record than him? You really are clueless. Plus Messi is a striker.
ronaldo has the record for the most goals scored in the world cup, how many did messi score in the last world cup? hmm.. fat ronaldo has proven that he can score amazing goals both internationally and in club football
plus his goals were a lot better.. ronaldo being considered the best player of all time after 02 world cup was a respected assumption.
putting messi in the same bracket as pele, maradonna, ZZ, cryuff etc. is just a no no
He was never offside in his career. FACT.
Original post by dignityinclay
He was never offside in his career. FACT.
the guy is an out and out legend man, he taught the world how to play football
rare footage:
Original post by tittyMilk2
messi plays for the best team of all time kiddo.. you think ronaldo wouldn't score as much as messi if he played for barca? and no messi isn't a striker. van persie, benzema, ibrahimovic are strikers
ronaldo has the record for the most goals scored in the world cup, how many did messi score in the last world cup? hmm.. fat ronaldo has proven that he can score amazing goals both internationally and in club football
plus his goals were a lot better.. ronaldo being considered the best player of all time after 02 world cup was a respected assumption.
putting messi in the same bracket as pele, maradonna, ZZ, cryuff etc. is just a no no
ronaldo has the record for the most goals scored in the world cup, how many did messi score in the last world cup? hmm.. fat ronaldo has proven that he can score amazing goals both internationally and in club football
plus his goals were a lot better.. ronaldo being considered the best player of all time after 02 world cup was a respected assumption.
putting messi in the same bracket as pele, maradonna, ZZ, cryuff etc. is just a no no
Because Inter, Barcelona, Madrid and the Milan teams he played for were all terrible weren't they? Im not denying that Ronaldo was amazing. But as it stands right now, Messi is more efficient when it comes to goal scoring.
Messi is a centre forward. So please explain to me why you believe he is a midfielder? Last time I checked midfielders never played upfront...
His temperament let him down on more than one occasion
Original post by tittyMilk
yeah that's the only thing i could think of
but doesn't that make him a better player? what happens if you take messi's pace away from him and make him as slow as ZZ?
but doesn't that make him a better player? what happens if you take messi's pace away from him and make him as slow as ZZ?
What happens if you take Zidane's height away from him and make him as short as Messi? Not as good anymore at headers?
Original post by tittyMilk2
messi isn't a striker, he's an attacking midfielder. david villa is barcelona's main striker
messi isn't a striker, he's an attacking midfielder. david villa is barcelona's main striker
Barcelona play a 4-3-3 formation, in which Lionel Messi plays in the front 3. That makes him, at the very least, a forward; he's definitely not a midfielder.
Original post by tittyMilk
he can't skill up players (just dribbles past em),
To say that Messi can't 'skill up players' is both inaccurate and ignorant. Anyone who has properly watched him play knows he has the ability to trick his way past any defender. He does this quite frequently too, although his pace and acceleration mean that he needs to use his tricks for a lower percentage of his dribbling.
Original post by tittyMilk2
messi plays for the best team of all time kiddo
It's the best team of all-time because he's the best player on it, mate. Sure, Xavi and Iniesta are good players - but don't forget that Zidane had Henry, Desailly etc. when playing for France, and Roberto Carlos, Ronaldo et. al while at Real Madrid.
Original post by tittyMilk2
putting messi in the same bracket as pele, maradonna, ZZ, cryuff etc. is just a no no
putting messi in the same bracket as pele, maradonna, ZZ, cryuff etc. is just a no no
Maradona and Cruyff would beg to differ. I guess you're a better judge of football talent, then.
Original post by tittyMilk
messi isn't exactly strong in the air
For a guy who's weak, he sure seems to roll around on the floor a lot less than 'strong' players e.g. Cristiano Ronaldo.
Original post by dignityinclay
He was never offside in his career. FACT.
That's a nice bit of trivia! But, in truth, there's probably a large number of midfielders whom we can say that about. And nearly every defender and goalkeeper.
Original post by Mero8
I miss that generation of footballers massively, when it wasn't all about one great player (Messi)... You had Zidane, Figo, Ronaldo, Roberto Carlos, Batistuta, Ballack etc etc etc... Such a great time! 
Football was good then, definitely! But it's good now, too. Nostalgia's a tricky thing.
(edited 12 years ago)
erm messi can header actually http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk3ehSGgr1w
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