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Losing Fat (and improving health) is Easy... we have been lied to :) My Story

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    should this be in the "fitness" section? sorry if its in the wrong sub-forum

    Hey Guys...

    Now here is my own story (briefly)

    -- I have always struggled throughout the years, trying to lose weight... to be quite fair it made me miserable. I was happy at school and with friends, but whenever I had the chance to think about how it affected me and how I felt hopeless... it really did get me down.

    During 2010, at Uni, I was bigger than ever and the stress of not liking the course/feeling ill had gotten to me, not to mention the severe digestive problems I had for well over a year. Everything collapsed, I had a panic attack one day and I became a wreck... I had anxiety from the most minute amounts of caffeine, or social situations in which I was fine before. I now realize it was likely my adrenal glands being overworked/shot. The doctors had no clue, the EEG came back fine "slightly elevated from anxiety [they said]"... I just had to lose weight. But... I had been eating whole grains, avoiding saturated fat and trying to live healthily... even going to the gym and using kettlebells at home (not always regularly, because I didn't feel like I was up to it, now I know why)

    I was over 20 stone (I never weighed myself before starting this journey but the first time I weigh'd myself after a while doing it I was 19 st 9 lbs) and I felt like CRAP. I had tried mainstream advice.

    One day I stumbled across a video on youtube by "Sean Croxton" of undergroundwellness (UGW). It was just him, talking about how GOOD for you coconut oil and saturated fat from animals was.... I thought WHAT... but kept watching, looking at all his videos... he was giving biochemistry reasoning, evolutionary reasoning, logical reasoning. I started taking his advice... this eventually lead me on to "paleo"...

    I haven't completely leaned out yet.. I've gone from 44 waist to 32... XXXL shirts to large/medium; I am now 13 stone 7 lbs (the number is pretty meaningless at this stage but can be useful early on as I am increasing muscle and losing fat atm)... I don't count calories, fat or even carbs to some degree (quality and timing is far more important).

    Please, if you have health problems (fat loss is only an added bonus of this, I have also sorted EVERY single health problem I had, digestive health, anxiety.. you name it and there is tons of clinical/anecdotal evidence for it improving many conditions including auto-immune conditions), check these links out... I promise you they are worth your time:
    [the main offenders tend to be grains/vegetable oils/excess pufas and for auto-immune problems avoiding nightshades can help, though obviously it is a very complex situation]

    www.robbwolf.com - excellent free podcast and blog
    www.marksdailyapple.com - excellent free blog
    www.undergroundwellness.com - another great site/free videos/podcast
    www.bulletproofexec.com
    www.paleohacks.com - brilliant place to ask questions or see anecdotal stories

    there are many more of these amazing free resources trying to help people in the "paleosphere" but I hope these ones can help you get started.

    Please feel free to message me if you wish, or ask questions on here.. I am by no means an expert but have been looking into this solidly for a while now and wish to help people who feel as helpless as I once did.

    [TL : DR] Long story short...
    It is not as simple as "a calorie is a calorie"... this is demonstrable fact; different foods (even when the macro-nutrient ratios are exactly the same) have vastly different effects on leptin sensitivity, other hormone sensitivity/resistance and various other health indicators and markers.

    I am advocating people look into the issue because we are told by the media/medical professionals all the time that it is just calories in/out



    --------- pics
    These pictures aren't "that" recent (and yes I'm attempting to grow my hair in the more recent one, that was when i had my hair straightened and I look lame), but I don't take many pictures of myself so here are a couple...
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    Interesting! I wanted to try the Paleo diet, but I'm vegetarian so it's kind of hard! I know there are some vegetarian/vegan paleo blogs out there though so I might try adopting its principles. I don't really need to lose weight, but I love trying different approaches to nutrition.

    Your progress is incredible, well done!
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    well that's all very well and good, and I commend you for having lost so much weight, but that doesn't mean it's the ONLY way to lose weight.

    I've gone myself from 14 stone 3lbs, to 10 stone, by losing the first couple of stone doing the Alternate Day Diet, and the rest of the weight I've lost by counting calories.

    My husband has gone from 33 stone 3lbs, to (so far) 25 stone 8lbs, purely by counting calories.

    Different strokes for different folks.

    Congrats on your weight loss though, you look fab.
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    (Original post by PinkMobilePhone)
    well that's all very well and good, and I commend you for having lost so much weight, but that doesn't mean it's the ONLY way to lose weight.

    I've gone myself from 14 stone 3lbs, to 10 stone, by losing the first couple of stone doing the Alternate Day Diet, and the rest of the weight I've lost by counting calories.

    My husband has gone from 33 stone 3lbs, to (so far) 25 stone 8lbs, purely by counting calories.

    Different strokes for different folks.

    Congrats on your weight loss though, you look fab.
    I never said it was the only way to lose weight... but it is a far easier and more natural way improving overall health (fat-loss, muscle retention and the potential to reverse or improve severe auto-immune conditions such as MS and huntingtons are just a side benefit) that most people are completely unaware of, this is why I made the post.

    I am not saying this is always the case in other methods but there is quite a lot of "forcing" your body/hormones/brain to adapt to starvation and this is how we are told to lose weight. I also feel there is strong evidence suggesting it is why most fail. (most people have an extremely tough time as did I with an approach that focuses on quantity rather than quality, quantity is most definitely not the cause, its an effect)

    For example I can honestly say I have not once felt like I was under-eating or "going-hungry" throughout the whole of this period) and there can be some problems with deficiencies/other health problems if people try to calorie restrict for extended periods.

    Now, I'm not saying that this isn't a calorie restricted approach.. it probably is cyclically as our hormones, guts and deficiencies are in control of how we eat... there were many days where I just did not feel hungry at all and had to force myself to eat something (though I've since learned there are many benefits to intermittent fasting protocols, www.leangains.com being an excellent resource for IF protocols); and other days where I could eat quite a lot, but the hunger was different than before... its strange.

    Yes, there is some variability through epigenetics and different cultures adaptation towards toxins they have been exposed to... but our biology is essentially the same and there simply hasn't been enough evolutionary pressure or time to adapt to things like grains/soy/vegetable oils. I am not posting this purely for the "weight-loss" side of things... its more about health in general and the ways we are slowly destroying our health without realizing.

    My main aim is to try and reach people who have either got chronic ailments (auto-immune conditions in particular have a hell of a lot of benefit from looking into this stuff) or have tried the standard methods to lose weight like I had myself so many times in the past... It also appeals to my scientific nature as there is an absolute ton of evidence around it all whilst tying in nicely to the very latest thinking in biochemistry.
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    (Original post by BLaZeDRas)
    I am not saying this is always the case in other methods but there is quite a lot of "forcing" your body/hormones/brain to adapt to starvation and this is how we are told to lose weight. I also feel there is strong evidence suggesting it is why most fail. (most people have an extremely tough time as did I with an approach that focuses on quantity rather than quality, quantity is most definitely not the cause, its an effect)

    For example I can honestly say I have not once felt like I was under-eating or "going-hungry" throughout the whole of this period) and there can be some problems with deficiencies/other health problems if people try to calorie restrict for extended periods.
    Neither my husband nor I feel hungry with calorie counting to be honest. We don't see it as a "diet" at all really, just more a lifestyle change.
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    (Original post by elixira)
    Interesting! I wanted to try the Paleo diet, but I'm vegetarian so it's kind of hard! I know there are some vegetarian/vegan paleo blogs out there though so I might try adopting its principles. I don't really need to lose weight, but I love trying different approaches to nutrition.

    Your progress is incredible, well done!
    Thanks, and cool! I mean... yes it may be a little harder as a vegetarian since it may seem like you are restricting quite a few options possibly? I haven't tried vegetarianism myself but have thought about how I would handle a situation... it would probably have to be a lot of high quality free range eggs / butter / tubers like sweet potatoes for the bulk of my calories (plenty of other veg/stuff but they are so low in caloric load). As you said, there are paleo bloggers and many anecdotal stories of it benefiting the same so its worth a look

    There is also a group on Facebook called "International Paleo Movement Group (IPMG)" and a site called www.paleohacks.com which can both be good for asking questions.
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    (Original post by PinkMobilePhone)
    Neither my husband nor I feel hungry with calorie counting to be honest. We don't see it as a "diet" at all really, just more a lifestyle change.
    That is most likely because you are doing it in a much better manner than most or are lucky physiologically Its good, don't get me wrong... it just wouldn't work for most people, we are not bomb calorimeters and most people fail at this method for good reason (and that reason is not will-power).

    I definitely agree that a lifestyle change is how it needs to be viewed. If what you are doing cannot be sustained and enjoyed for your life its likely only temporary.
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    To be fair, we're not "lied to" as such. Everybody knows that if you eat less and move more you'll lose weight. No need for any magic pill, special/fad diet or anything like that, just simple maths and common sense.

    But it's people's WILLPOWER that comes into question, not the method of getting fit. We all know what to do, it's just a question of whether we can all be bothered to do it.

    Well done on your weight loss though, it seems as though you're one of the few who start something and stick to it.
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    (Original post by xoxAngel_Kxox)
    To be fair, we're not "lied to" as such. Everybody knows that if you eat less and move more you'll lose weight. No need for any magic pill, special/fad diet or anything like that, just simple maths and common sense.

    But it's people's WILLPOWER that comes into question, not the method of getting fit. We all know what to do, it's just a question of whether we can all be bothered to do it.

    Well done on your weight loss though, it seems as though you're one of the few who start something and stick to it.
    and a large part of my point is that there is a ton of science and reasoning to suggest that it is indeed not a problem of willpower or "eating too much, moving too little". That is how I used to think, and it is how most people think obesity happens. It really isn't... its simply an effect, not a cause. Calories are not just calories, they are vastly different and affect our hormones, stress responses, gut health and many other things incredibly differently. Even the mainstream is slowly coming around to the evidence of calories not being the same these days... so I urge you to look into the issue if you are interested, its amazingly complicated but its worth the effort.

    OK, we are not "lied" to in the true sense of the word... but we are mislead by people who are giving out dodgy advice with no scientific reasoning nor logic behind it. The biochemistry/physiological research that goes around the paleo-sphere has been years ahead of the game since the 80's with people like Dr. Loren Cordain heading up some of the first ancestral/paleo type research, not to mention the others before that who were touting the higher natural fat diets such as atkins (admittedly his doesnt focus quite as much on quality but many of the principles are sound).

    The media are especially to blame for reporting observational studies as facts when their entire data set means precisely nothing... they are worse than useless (but "red meat increases early deaths" is a good headline isn't it). But many doctors do not keep up on the research, i get it, they are busy... but telling people to eat grains and vegetable oils to improve their health is what is causing the sky-rocketing heart disease and health problems today.

    (Original post by xoxAngel_Kxox)
    To be fair, we're not "lied to" as such. Everybody knows that if you eat less and move more you'll lose weight.
    This is the problem; people know this... but its a complete misrepresentation of the truth (as we understand it so far) and at the current level of understanding in the latest research; people who produce observational studies with sensationalist headlines, push grains/soy as a healthy way of eating or say that it is a simple problem of maths are 100% lying.

    And sorry, but to say that people know what to do but just can't be bothered to do it is just insulting... no doubt there are people who have given up... but as a previously obese person I can safely say that I never wished to be overweight; I tried many times to lose weight and at some point along the years I decided that I was just too weak in terms of willpower... I couldn't do it. Now, you might say I am only saying all this now so I can show I wasn't at fault, and partially that's true... there is so much evidence and evolutionary reasoning behind the topics I'm trying to bring to light here, to reduce it to "oh its just willpower" seems to be missing the point of my post entirely.
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    (Original post by BLaZeDRas)
    and a large part of my point is that there is a ton of science and reasoning to suggest that it is indeed not a problem of willpower or "eating too much, moving too little". That is how I used to think, and it is how most people think obesity happens. It really isn't... its simply an effect, not a cause. Calories are not just calories, they are vastly different and affect our hormones, stress responses, gut health and many other things incredibly differently. Even the mainstream is slowly coming around to the evidence of calories not being the same these days... so I urge you to look into the issue if you are interested, its amazingly complicated but its worth the effort.

    OK, we are not "lied" to in the true sense of the word... but we are mislead by people who are giving out dodgy advice with no scientific reasoning nor logic behind it. The biochemistry/physiological research that goes around the paleo-sphere has been years ahead of the game since the 80's with people like Dr. Loren Cordain heading up some of the first ancestral/paleo type research, not to mention the others before that who were touting the higher natural fat diets such as atkins (admittedly his doesnt focus quite as much on quality but many of the principles are sound).

    The media are especially to blame for reporting observational studies as facts when their entire data set means precisely nothing... they are worse than useless (but "red meat increases early deaths" is a good headline isn't it). But many doctors do not keep up on the research, i get it, they are busy... but telling people to eat grains and vegetable oils to improve their health is what is causing the sky-rocketing heart disease and health problems today.



    This is the problem; people know this... but its a complete misrepresentation of the truth (as we understand it so far) and at the current level of understanding in the latest research; people who produce observational studies with sensationalist headlines, push grains/soy as a healthy way of eating or say that it is a simple problem of maths are 100% lying.

    And sorry, but to say that people know what to do but just can't be bothered to do it is just insulting... no doubt there are people who have given up... but as a previously obese person I can safely say that I never wished to be overweight; I tried many times to lose weight and at some point along the years I decided that I was just too weak in terms of willpower... I couldn't do it. Now, you might say I am only saying all this now so I can show I wasn't at fault, and partially that's true... there is so much evidence and evolutionary reasoning behind the topics I'm trying to bring to light here, to reduce it to "oh its just willpower" seems to be missing the point of my post entirely.
    First of all, negging me was plain rude.

    I don't understand why people like you feel the need to over complicate things. The simple truth is that it's as simple as calories in v calories out if you want to lose weight. I get that you're a "previously obese person", well so am I. I have lost 90lbs in the past 16 months just by calorie counting.

    We have an entire thread on the fitness board of people who are using calories as a way to lose weight, no weird diets, no fads. However you managed to lose your weight is highly commendable, I admire anyone who does it as I understand how how it is, but the simple fact is that it IS just willpower.

    I stuffed my face with bad foods for years KNOWING it was bad for me. I'm sure nobody believes that a diet of crisps and pizza is healthy, but yet they carry on. It isn't necessarily that they can't be bothered. Changing habits is a hard thing, and something that requires a lot of effort, but at the end of the day EVERYONE has a choice of whether to eat certain foods or not. Food is nice, food is tempting, yes that's true, but it's the willpower required not to give into that temptation that helps people lose weight.

    You can say what you like, but it really is that simple.
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    (Original post by BLaZeDRas)
    If what you are doing cannot be sustained and enjoyed for your life its likely only temporary.
    A year and a half of calorie counting now, and we're still perfectly happy doing it....I'm gonna say it's not temporary.
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    (Original post by PinkMobilePhone)
    A year and a half of calorie counting now, and we're still perfectly happy doing it....I'm gonna say it's not temporary.
    I was agree'ing with you... yet you took my quote, made it out of context and replied to it as if i was attacking you for not having a lifestyle change ... -(for most people it is a major uphill struggle restricting calories for extended periods, it is going against our physiology... yes you can do it but it is very hard for most people because it is not in line with our body, especially a deficient/damaged body as most of us have ^^)-

    this is a very interesting forum but why is everyone is so defensive on an issue that's not even related to your success? I believe in truth and looking at the evidence behind things, I just never applied that to nutrition until recently and there is a lot of dodgy info out there masquerading as tested when it is in-fact based on absolutely nothing... this isn't a simple game of maths, I wish it were, then we would never have the health problem we do as a society and I wouldn't have had to stay mad and depressed at myself during my late teens/early twenties
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    (Original post by xoxAngel_Kxox)
    First of all, negging me was plain rude.

    I don't understand why people like you feel the need to over complicate things. The simple truth is that it's as simple as calories in v calories out if you want to lose weight. I get that you're a "previously obese person", well so am I. I have lost 90lbs in the past 16 months just by calorie counting.

    We have an entire thread on the fitness board of people who are using calories as a way to lose weight, no weird diets, no fads. However you managed to lose your weight is highly commendable, I admire anyone who does it as I understand how how it is, but the simple fact is that it IS just willpower.

    I stuffed my face with bad foods for years KNOWING it was bad for me. I'm sure nobody believes that a diet of crisps and pizza is healthy, but yet they carry on. It isn't necessarily that they can't be bothered. Changing habits is a hard thing, and something that requires a lot of effort, but at the end of the day EVERYONE has a choice of whether to eat certain foods or not. Food is nice, food is tempting, yes that's true, but it's the willpower required not to give into that temptation that helps people lose weight.

    You can say what you like, but it really is that simple.
    I "negged" you because you completely ignored everything I wrote and basically just said "its just maths" when there is absolutely tons of evidence to the contrary... I'd rather go with science and look at the various aspects and if you don't wish to look into the topic further, fine, but why bother replying if you didn't even read anything about it? Different foods affect our hormones and sensitivity to said hormones in vastly different ways... this alone disproves the theory of "a calorie is a calorie" without getting into other issues such as addiction, mineral/nutrient binding and gut health/absorption
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    (Original post by BLaZeDRas)
    I was agree'ing with you... yet you took my quote, made it out of context and replied to it as if i was attacking you for not having a lifestyle change ... -(for most people it is a major uphill struggle restricting calories for extended periods, it is going against our physiology... yes you can do it but it is very hard for most people because it is not in line with our body, especially a deficient/damaged body as most of us have ^^)-
    most people must just not go about it the right way then. that doesn't mean that calorie counting, done properly so that you don't feel as though you're living on rabbit food, isn't a perfectly valid way of losing weight though.

    I don't really believe that it goes against our physiology at all though to tell you the truth. I can't see any evidence to suggest that reducing calories in order to lose weight goes against any physiology, it's just (as Angel_K says) mathematics. Burn more calories than you consume, and you lose weight.

    But as I say, it's great that you found a method of losing weight that works for you. Different people get on better with different methods. Some people swear by cabbage soup diets, others by Atkins, others by Lighter Life/ Cambridge Diet / Exante (or any other extreme very low calorie diets). Others swear by weight watchers, slimming world, cutting out gluten and dairy.....etc. etc. the list just goes on and on.
    What works for one, isn't always the most convenient (or indeed the most effective) for another. That doesn't mean the other weight loss diets are a lie though, it just means that there is more than one way to skin a cat.

    this is a very interesting forum but why is everyone is so defensive on an issue that's not even related to your success? I believe in truth and looking at the evidence behind things, I just never applied that to nutrition until recently and there is a lot of dodgy info out there masquerading as tested when it is in-fact based on absolutely nothing... this isn't a simple game of maths, I wish it were, then we would never have the health problem we do as a society and I wouldn't have had to stay mad and depressed at myself during my late teens/early twenties
    Well it IS a simple matter of maths (not a game, maths isn't generally all that much fun, but a matter of maths nevertheless). You even pretty much said it yourself :

    Now, I'm not saying that this isn't a calorie restricted approach.. it probably is cyclically as our hormones, guts and deficiencies are in control of how we eat...
    ...thereby admitting that your method of losing weight IS essentially another method of calorie control.
    In fact, pretty much every diet IS a method of controlling calories. When you do Atkins, you cut out all the calories that come from carbs. When you do slimming world, you are encouraged to fill up your plate with 2 thirds vegetables (which contain very few calories), thereby restricting how many calories from protein and carbs are actually allowed on your plate, given that you only get a third of the plate for them! When you do cabbage soup, well that speaks for itself...cabbage soup is hardly calorific!

    You can dress it up in any pretty format you want - essentially every single diet has the same base solution - they restrict your calories in some form or other.

    Nobody is saying that your Paleo diet doesn't work, I'm sure it does, but to shoot Angel_K down when she says that it's a matter of maths is unfair, because essentially she's right.

    I mean, you take a person and give them very little to eat for an extended period of time - they're not gonna stay fat are they? Course they're not. Even if they go into starvation mode for a while, once they get past that, they're gonna end up skinny.
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    (Original post by PinkMobilePhone)
    Well it IS a simple matter of maths (not a game, maths isn't generally all that much fun, but a matter of maths nevertheless). You even pretty much said it yourself :

    ...thereby admitting that your method of losing weight IS essentially another method of calorie control.
    And yet the methods such as atkins and other higher protein approaches often have an ad-lib policy when it comes to appetite, meaning eat til you are satisfied/full... it has been shown in clinical studies (not that they are usually done right or reliably, it is very expensive to do worthwhile nutritional research and relies on the researchers actually having some accurate information for their choices) that ad-lib lower carb paleo will beat a calorie restricted lower quality equivalent...

    I do admit yes, that there may be some natural calorie reduction on these kinds of diets through appetite regulation of hormones and better signalling sensitivity (though there are anecdotal stories of people such as dave asprey purposely over-eating for extended periods and gaining lean mass with no noticable fat gains- and no purposeful exercise, whilst sleeping 4-5 hours a night, he is a bio-hacker, but I have read other similar stories too).

    The point is, ,most of these restrictive diets that tell you to "count points", "count fat" etc... are not solving the underlying cause of the over-consumption... they will if you can stick it through the process (or are doing it in a very controlled manner, though since every single nutritional estimate is completely off and they found cooking significantly increased caloric density recently, I find that extremely hard to believe)

    What I am trying to help people realize here is that our body is very complex, we are not bomb calorimeters and the way certain foods trigger hormonal responses and many other processes is a far more rewarding area to look into. The "it is maths" is absolute bull**** and anyone who spends even one hour looking into this stuff seriously would realize that. I am sorry if you don't but your inaccurate advise is significantly holding back people who are having trouble reclaiming their health.

    I may come off pissed off... telling the truth I am... you are ignoring everything I am suggesting people look at then coming in with a post saying "its maths". I don't care if you are not interested; don't post on my thread, I'm trying to help people get interested in the science behind it rather than the dogma that has gotten us to this health epidemic.
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    (Original post by PinkMobilePhone)
    I mean, you take a person and give them very little to eat for an extended period of time - they're not gonna stay fat are they? Course they're not. Even if they go into starvation mode for a while, once they get past that, they're gonna end up skinny.
    Really? Yes, eventually they will lose the fat... but not before losing a gigantic amount of muscle unless it is done in a very specific manor. Not to mention the nutrient deficiencies they may already have from a poor diet prior to the intervention. This is a recipe for disaster in most people... I know you are using this as an example but it is a worthless one. Its the same as saying why not give people cancer, that creates wasting away in people? You are not addressing the actual problem you are creating more and masking the one that you think you are treating.
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    (Original post by BLaZeDRas)
    Really? Yes, eventually they will lose the fat... but not before losing a gigantic amount of muscle unless it is done in a very specific manor. Not to mention the nutrient deficiencies they may already have from a poor diet prior to the intervention. This is a recipe for disaster in most people... I know you are using this as an example but it is a worthless one. Its the same as saying why not give people cancer, that creates wasting away in people? You are not addressing the actual problem you are creating more and masking the one that you think you are treating.
    Lol to be fair, I don't think you can really compare telling some to lay off the pies to giving them cancer.

    That comment has pretty much helped me make my mind up about you! Absolutely ridiculous.
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    (Original post by BLaZeDRas)
    this is a very interesting forum but why is everyone is so defensive on an issue that's not even related to your success?
    This is TSR. You shall soon learn :cool:
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    The guy from bulletproofexecutive is an absolute tosser if you've ever heard his podcast. He comes across as really dogmatic and doesn't even believe in the calories in / calories out notion. I wouldn't be suprised if he cherry picked all his studies just to support his views.

    Likewise with underground wellness. Guy is a massive broscience. Pretty sure people haven't dodged him because he comes across as charismatic.

    I like the idea behind paleo but when you hear people bang on about fruits/ white potatoes and/or milk being evil, you just have to think wtf.

    Well done on your efforts by the way. Oh wait, you're against the calories theory too. Uh oh....
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    I tried the paleo diet for 2 weeks, very very low carbs. Everyone was commenting on how slim I looked! The problem is is that it is very hard, I get painful head aches due to constantly being tired.

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