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Losing Fat (and improving health) is Easy... we have been lied to :) My Story

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Become part of the Welcome Squad! Apply here! 28-10-2014
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    (Original post by BLaZeDRas)
    They are taking my words personally; just because I am saying calories are more of a result not a player (though they can be a player if you have to force them to be one) it does not mean I think you are lying or a bad person because you restricted calories purposely. This is not a personal attack... I feel like I am talking to religious people who take any criticism of the lack of reasoning (lack of evidence is a given) of their faith to be a personal insult.
    People are getting a little fed up with all this, because essentially, although you are admitting that calorie controlled diets work, this contradicts what you said in your first post where you basically branded everything other than the Paleo diet as a big lie that doesn't work.

    And you've spent the remainder of this thread then trying to argue blue in the face that you didn't say that in the first place.

    The fact is that the Paleo diet works, you're proof of that. Other diets also work - e.g. calorie counting - other people (myself included) are proof of that. Marvellous, we all found something that works for us, that's terrific.....thing is though is that none of us who have lost weight in other ways to you, decided to come on TSR and make a thread branding everything other than calorie counting as being a complete lie. That in itself is a bit ridiculous - clearly it's not a lie, as it has been proven to work.

    Then there's the whole "my body is a temple thus I shall not eat wheat" part of all this. Okay, you don't want to eat wheat, that's your prerogative. If I fancy a sandwich though, I'm quite happy knowing that I can have a sandwich and I'm not going to pile on 10 stone, nor am I going to keel over and die. It's a sandwich, it's not arsenic. You're coming across as terribly "holier-than-thou" with your sermon on how fantastic Paleo is. It's making the rest of us (well I suppose I speak for myself here) feel somewhat as though we're being preached to.

    I said right at the beginning that different things work for different people. You lost your weight by not eating wheat. That's fine if that worked for you, but you need to accept that not everybody wants to take that approach, and recognise that this method isn't necessarily one that is going to appeal to everybody. There's no need to get annoyed about this, just accept it.
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    Glad you got your point across once again... glad you realized that yes.. I am totally saying counting calories is a lie and calories are meaningless. You clearly don't understand English... perhaps you understand sarcastic English?

    And I'm not arguing anything "blue in the face" with you... I was simply trying to see if you could think outside your little box of ITS MATHS. Calorie counting works of the deficit.. but what does that deficit entail? More time where you are accessing fat from your stores because of forced restrictions, more fasting periods, better insulin/leptin sensitivity potentially. Less toxins. I never even tried to say that calorie counting doesn't work, you made that little fantasy up... I simply said it is a small player and possibly even an effect in most situations other than forced restriction because other other changes.
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    After analysing the nutrients from a typical paleo diet, that's a massive lack of a heck of a lot of nutrients,
    no vitamin C
    lack of Thiamin
    lack of manganese
    lack of magnesium (hello
    massive lack of potassium
    massive lack of vitamin E
    massive lack of vitamin K
    lack of iodine (hello thyroid problems)
    lack of folate


    seems to be a pretty rubbish diet to me.
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    You're cuteeeeee ;D (only contribution I have to offer....)
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    (Original post by BLaZeDRas)
    Glad you got your point across once again... glad you realized that yes.. I am totally saying counting calories is a lie and calories are meaningless. You clearly don't understand English... perhaps you understand sarcastic English?

    And I'm not arguing anything "blue in the face" with you... I was simply trying to see if you could think outside your little box of ITS MATHS. Calorie counting works of the deficit.. but what does that deficit entail? More time where you are accessing fat from your stores because of forced restrictions, more fasting periods, better insulin/leptin sensitivity potentially. Less toxins. I never even tried to say that calorie counting doesn't work, you made that little fantasy up... I simply said it is a small player and possibly even an effect in most situations other than forced restriction because other other changes.
    You're getting nowhere by telling myself and several other people in this thread that we don't understand English. We understand English perfectly well thanks. I've tried being polite to you, and taking on board that your Paleo diet has worked for you, but you insist on being extremely rude and belittling to everybody who isn't jumping on your Paleo bandwagon.
    I'm bowing out of this thread now as it's a clearly a complete waste of time me posting anything else. All you keep doing is repeating yourself for no apparent reason.
    Goodnight, good luck with your diet, I hope it continues to be beneficial to you.
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    Well OP, no matter how you did it I really do think you have done incredibly well.

    Thank you for sharing your story; myself & my partner are overweight & although I'm not always serious or overly bothered about getting slim, I know my partner is. I actually believe that this diet will be beneficial to him, especially seeing as he's tried an inordinate amount without much success. So, thanks for your post I'll be showing him first thing & see what he says x

    BTW, calorie counting works for me, I just can't be bothered to do it. I'm not exactly happy with my weight, but I'm not miserable over it either. I'll just diet to my specification. I'll read people's stories & make up my own mind. I will not be influenced by anyone. However, I love reading when people have lost a genuine amount of weight, no matter how they do it. I feel people have been a little harsh on you & completely forgotten what this post is about.

    and OP, just make sure you refrain from 'shoving it down people's throats', there's a fine line between advice & preaching

    Well done x
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    (Original post by PinkMobilePhone)
    All you keep doing is repeating yourself for no apparent reason.
    Rich

    ---

    and yes it was a great waste of time you posting here since you contributed nothing and read none of the posts that addressed your first post (and every other one since they were exactly the same)

    I find it belittling and rude that you would not make the effort to understand what someone is saying... but you achieved that on numerous occasions. I'll say it one last time.. I never once disagree'd with the notion that calorie counting works.

    ------------------

    I'm not here to make friends... Nor do I care what people think of me... I never brought any controversial messages or offensive messages in my original post but I won't put up with people parroting absolute bull**** to me and expecting me to concede a point that I never even challenged.

    I'm sure there are some fine people here... My only aim is that people who are not here to argue their already agree'd upon point may discover that the nutrition topic is far greater than a mathematical equation which explains nothing.
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    (Original post by almasy)
    After analysing the nutrients from a typical paleo diet, that's a massive lack of a heck of a lot of nutrients,
    no vitamin C
    lack of Thiamin
    lack of manganese
    lack of magnesium (hello
    massive lack of potassium
    massive lack of vitamin E
    massive lack of vitamin K
    lack of iodine (hello thyroid problems)
    lack of folate


    seems to be a pretty rubbish diet to me.
    All of those you list can be found in massive amounts in various animal products, fruits, herbs and vegetables.

    Some of the highest sources of Vitamin K are eggs and dairy, in particular butter/cheeses.

    Iodine can be found in kelp, sea vegetables, yogurt, milk, eggs, strawberries, fish, shellfish, mozerella cheese; but it is does seem like a question people bring up in questions on podcasts.

    Folate is another funny one.. Chris Kresser did a special blog post and I believe podcast on the mis-information surrounding the folate/folic acid bio-avaliability issue:

    http://chriskresser.com/folate-vs-folic-acid

    Thiamin - liver, pork, legumes (fermented/properly cooked legumes are much better), seeds and nuts to name a few

    manganese - spinach, pumpkin seeds, fermented tempeh, kale, chard, raspberries, pinapple, garlic, eggplant, turnip greens, gloves, cinnamon, thyme, black pepper, turmeric

    Since the paleo diet is a template you can work from and not a rigid "set in stone" list of foods this is an often quoted yet mis-leading counter-argument.

    Also consider that the established RDA is based on people eating a standard western diet and that those people will likely need much more of some nutrients to cover for the damage done by other foods.

    For example, if you eat low carb, you need much less vitamin C because carbs and vitamin C are in competition for absorption. This is why native Americans didn’t get scurvy while new settlers where plagued by it.

    Eating grains will also reduce absorption of most minerals, which surely makes the RDA higher for those minerals.
    This is from a website.. but it is not as simple as looking at the RDA's and a diet you make up (which can lack the variety of food which is avaliable in any case)... Did you actually check any of that information?
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    (Original post by sweetiepie82)
    and OP, just make sure you refrain from 'shoving it down people's throats', there's a fine line between advice & preaching

    Well done x
    thanks, and yes I know... I'm really trying not to "preach" it... just counter-act the misinformation that people are feeding into the thread. That is the whole reason I made the thread, so they would be directed away from "its just calories" or "red meat is bad"

    The one about nutrient deficiencies would have been a good question/debate but he framed in such a way that they were certain any variation of paleo would be mega-deficient in those things which there is completely the opposite of the truth... just googling "sources of ####" shows which foods are rich in them... paleo pretty much only excludes heavily processed foods.. why would it be deficient in natural goodness :P?

    I'm kind of rude when it comes to people constantly ignoring what is in front of them I admit... but I honestly don't care, as long as some people are intrigued by the idea of it not being so simple as the media would like you to believe.

    To all those who have said kind words on my story.. thanks, it wasn't my intention to brag about it just to allow some people to find the information that I have found. I have to say I am flattered about some of the (incorrect) compliments though
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    your long story short is longer than your long story OP
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    (Original post by Dmon1Unlimited)
    your long story short is longer than your long story OP
    Cheers, I don't doubt it... I'll probably edit it into a less threatening / more concise format or something

    And I like your sig =)
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    I was half expecting you to ask me to pay $9.99 for "Fat loss pills" when i see the title.
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    (Original post by ALazyThracian)
    I was half expecting you to ask me to pay $9.99 for "Fat loss pills" when i see the title.
    Haha, yeah I probably could have named it better..

    to be fair this is one of paleo's strongest points, yes, there are books people want to sell within the paleo "world"... though I would argue most of these authors are providing much or the entirity of their books online for free in the form of articles and/or quick start guides

    and there are even supplements some of them recommend in certain situations.. but the overall message is "eat whole unprocessed foods, not >insert< processed product"...

    Of course there are deviations to this; for example dave asprey claims to be extremely sensitive to mycotoxins and claims them to be a big part of our poor health/mental clarity... so he is making some products for himself (he is fairly well off) and also sells them. He claims to do a lot of research on production methods and gives his reasoning for the "need" of having cleanly processed versions of say, coffee, whey or chocolate on his podcast. I personally welcome that kind of thing, as long as it has sensible reasoning behind it.
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    (Original post by BLaZeDRas)
    eggs and dairy, in particular butter/cheeses.

    kelp, sea vegetables, yogurt, milk, eggs, strawberries, fish, shellfish, mozerella cheese
    legumes, seeds and nuts
    spinach, pumpkin seeds, fermented tempeh, kale, chard, raspberries, pinapple, garlic, eggplant, turnip greens, gloves, cinnamon, thyme, black pepper, turmeric
    That's a remarkable amount of stuff you listed that the paleo diet says you can't have...
    waay too many healthy foods there mate, waaay too many carbs for the paleo diet...and then you have processed crap like cheese and poisonous things like fish.
    and how do you plan on eat legumes which are poisonous unless cooked when you're not allowed to cook?
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    I hope you don't scare your future children into having an eating disorder. You talk about food like it's toxic. That's all I have to add.
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    (Original post by almasy)
    That's a remarkable amount of stuff you listed that the paleo diet says you can't have...
    waay too many healthy foods there mate, waaay too many carbs for the paleo diet...and then you have processed crap like cheese and poisonous things like fish.
    and how do you plan on eat legumes which are poisonous unless cooked when you're not allowed to cook?
    I'm guessing you are a troll...

    if only the paleo stuff was this black/white and dogmatic.. not one single item on that list were "FORBIDDEN"... but yes, there are details and better ways of using those foods (for example unfermented soy is absolutely horrible for health, whereas some traditionally fermented types are probably very safe for moderate consumption)

    where the hell have u gotten the idea that you can't cook things? lol... seriously, good trolling but its really not helping. The whole thing about paleo is there are shades of grey, reasons for and against certain things and its about experimenting (once you are comfortable enough). I guess if people are actually like you then there is absolutely no chance of it working since it requires some common sense and research/analysis.
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    (Original post by Cinnie)
    I hope you don't scare your future children into having an eating disorder. You talk about food like it's toxic. That's all I have to add.
    I am not currently planning to have kids... that being said who knows down the line. I definitely recommend above all teaching people how to look at things rationally and evaluate the good sides versus the bad... I am recommending people look at the evidence and reasoning behind things to help them evaluate situations.

    If you see this as a bad thing then I guess there is no hope...

    yes there are toxins in foods, that goes for nearly all foods... some are probably not worth paying attention to.. some can be quite horrible for health... this isn't me saying everything is poison, avoid everything... its just that's what science calls neuro-toxins, lectins, zeno-estrogens; things which plants (or indeed other foodstuffs) have evolved to disrupt their predators fertility or health so that they cannot procreate and therefore increase their own survivability and preserve genes... or things we have engineered purely for taste/shelf-life that happen to be horrible for health.

    As a possible parent I would feel it my responsibility to ensure the children have a good start in life, good gene expression, health and above all less stress (hell, being unhealthy and overweight caused me a lot of stress as a teenager). I fail to see how being aware of the potential risks and benefits of things would create a eating disorder. I myself know ice-cream or gluten-free grains are bad for me.. does that make me avoid it all the time for-ever? no... but I don't eat them every day either... does that make me neurotic? I just enjoy feeling better and leaning out (currently)

    There is a major difference between being aware and educating yourself on the topic and just being a hypochondriac and scared of food. Ignorance is the key here and it seems like a some of the people replying are very anti-science/rational thinking and just want a black and white answer to everything. I'm sorry they take it so personally offensive to look into issues.
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    (Original post by BLaZeDRas)
    should this be in the "fitness" section? sorry if its in the wrong sub-forum

    Hey Guys...

    Now here is my own story (briefly)

    -- I have always struggled throughout the years, trying to lose weight... to be quite fair it made me miserable. I was happy at school and with friends, but whenever I had the chance to think about how it affected me and how I felt hopeless... it really did get me down.

    During 2010, at Uni, I was bigger than ever and the stress of not liking the course/feeling ill had gotten to me, not to mention the severe digestive problems I had for well over a year. Everything collapsed, I had a panic attack one day and I became a wreck... I had anxiety from the most minute amounts of caffeine, or social situations in which I was fine before. I now realize it was likely my adrenal glands being overworked/shot. The doctors had no clue, the EEG came back fine "slightly elevated from anxiety [they said]"... I just had to lose weight. But... I had been eating whole grains, avoiding saturated fat and trying to live healthily... even going to the gym and using kettlebells at home (not always regularly, because I didn't feel like I was up to it, now I know why)

    I was over 20 stone (I never weighed myself before starting this journey but the first time I weigh'd myself after a while doing it I was 19 st 9 lbs) and I felt like CRAP. I had tried mainstream advice.

    One day I stumbled across a video on youtube by "Sean Croxton" of undergroundwellness (UGW). It was just him, talking about how GOOD for you coconut oil and saturated fat from animals was.... I thought WHAT... but kept watching, looking at all his videos... he was giving biochemistry reasoning, evolutionary reasoning, logical reasoning. I started taking his advice... this eventually lead me on to "paleo"...

    I haven't completely leaned out yet.. I've gone from 44 waist to 32... XXXL shirts to large/medium; I am now 13 stone 7 lbs (the number is pretty meaningless at this stage but can be useful early on as I am increasing muscle and losing fat atm)... I don't count calories, fat or even carbs to some degree (quality and timing is far more important).

    Please, if you have health problems (fat loss is only an added bonus of this, I have also cured EVERY single health problem I had, digestive health, anxiety.. you name it and there is tons of clinical/anecdotal evidence for it improving many conditions including auto-immune conditions), check these links out... I promise you they are worth your time:
    [the main offenders are wheat/grains/vegetable oils/excess sugar+pufas, though obviously it is a very complex situation]

    www.robbwolf.com - excellent free podcast and blog
    www.marksdailyapple.com - excellent free blog
    www.undergroundwellness.com - another great site/free videos/podcast
    www.bulletproofexec.com
    www.paleohacks.com - brilliant place to ask questions or see anecdotal stories

    there are many more of these amazing free resources trying to help people in the "paleosphere" but I hope these ones can help you get started.

    Please feel free to add me on facebook (https://www.facebook.com/petros.constantopoulos) if you wish, or ask questions on here.. I am by no means an expert but have been looking into this solidly for a while now and wish to help people who feel as helpless as I once did.

    [TL : DR] Long story short...
    It is not as simple as "a calorie is a calorie"... this is demonstrable fact; different foods (even when the macro-nutrient ratios are exactly the same) have vastly different effects on leptin sensitivity, other hormone sensitivity/resistance and various other health indicators and markers.

    I am advocating people look into the issue because we are told by the media/medical professionals all the time that it is just calories in/out



    --------- pics
    These pictures aren't "that" recent (and yes I'm attempting to grow my hair in the more recent one, that was when i had my hair straightened and I look lame), but I don't take many pictures of myself so here are a couple...


    Hi there! I am also following the paleo diet (although only since recently) and I've read the entire thread's worth of comments. I feel very sorry for you as you've been given a hell of a lot of agro for no reason. I completely understand why you made the thread, i'm also trying to make the paleo world known to my friends and family, and I think it's important that we try to do this, as 'conventional wisdom' is everywhere, making us thinking that we're healthy by picking the low fat, diet option of foods, when in fact, they're causing more damage in our body. I know all the other posters on this thread, as I am also part of a 'healthy new you' thread with them, and I am constantly posting Mark's daily apple link on there, as many of the thread followers seems to live off porridge, fruit, low fat yoghurts, wraps, potatoes etc. (as I did before changing to paleo) and doing chronic cardio, thinking that this is making them healthier. Ayway, so glad to have met another paleo, feel free to add me on fb- my name's Lois Groendijk. I'll be following this thread and supporting you all the way!
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    Poison is in everything, and no thing is without poison. The dosage makes it either a poison or a remedy.-Paracelsus
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    (Original post by lolo66)
    Hi there! I am also following the paleo diet (although only since recently) and I've read the entire thread's worth of comments. I feel very sorry for you as you've been given a hell of a lot of agro for no reason. I completely understand why you made the thread, i'm also trying to make the paleo world known to my friends and family, and I think it's important that we try to do this, as 'conventional wisdom' is everywhere, making us thinking that we're healthy by picking the low fat, diet option of foods, when in fact, they're causing more damage in our body. I know all the other posters on this thread, as I am also part of a 'healthy new you' thread with them, and I am constantly posting Mark's daily apple link on there, as many of the thread followers seems to live off porridge, fruit, low fat yoghurts, wraps, potatoes etc. (as I did before changing to paleo) and doing chronic cardio, thinking that this is making them healthier. Ayway, so glad to have met another paleo, feel free to add me on fb- my name's Lois Groendijk. I'll be following this thread and supporting you all the way!
    Hey iv started it too, as my aunty whos diabetic started the diet and lost a stone without trying to loose weigh or ever being hungry. She basically went on the diet to stop feeling so tired all the time. And also her rosacea went away. Its going really well so far! I havnt been perfect, iv had dark chocolate and yogurt (though it was greek) which arnt the most amazing things... but iv lost 4 pounds in a week, and though im sure most of it will be water weight, iv never lost that much water weight in the first week of a diet before so its really encouraging and my stomach looks way less puffy. And also no more hunger unless im genuinly hungry!!

    Whats your stance on running? mark apple guy says hiking/biking etc is better but iv always loved running. makes me feel relaxed. so i think im gonna carry on and just add some sprint work.

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