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Is anyone else disappointed by declining standards in spoken English in Britain?

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Applying to Uni? Let Universities come to you. Click here to get your perfect place 20-10-2014
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    (Original post by Foo.mp3)
    Aye, if you listen she uses txt speak-esque style shortenings/lazy pronounciation e.g. eva instead of ever, and la·ba instead of la·bour

    Most of what she says she pronounces properly, it's a case of slacking off on some words - I don't think BBC news reporters should be paid to slack off with their speech personally..
    She pronounces labour and ever with a schwa, and if you render your pronunciation as lab-er and ev-er then it sounds like you do too.
    Or do you think she's literally saying labA (a as in cat) ? As far as I can tell, she isn't. For me to understand your moan I really need to hear an example of the 'proper' way to say it.

    Edit- I listened again and she does say labour slightly differently once out of the 3 or 4 times that she says it? I still wouldn't call it labA though.
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    I suppose, I mean I love black and white movies partially due to this reason, but at the same time I recognise that it is the progression of language and is not something that can or even should be prevented.

    Note: It was asked for and therefore I shall mention it. I'm caucasian British and live in south east England. I speak prodominantly in proper english (unless I have to translate for a friend and so on) and as I'm a book nerd, I use 'big words' too! Lol, just thinking of my english lit teacher who I'm horrified to find uses these words each lesson: 'babes', 'ohmydays!', and 'gang'. Oh dear...
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    (Original post by blu tack)
    I listened again and she does say labour slightly differently once out of the 3 or 4 times that she says it? I still wouldn't call it labA though.
    Also the last word in her report, 'ever' is "South London schoolgirl"-slack, which is unfortunate as it was this that crystalised the issue in my mind (important to get the sign off right)

    Stay classy San Diego.
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    I hate people who replace 'tt' with 'll'.

    Example:

    Better --> Bella
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    (Original post by MovieMoments)
    I suppose, I mean I love black and white movies partially due to this reason, but at the same time I recognise that it is the progression of language and is not something that can or even should be prevented
    Allow me to refer you to my above comments to Ms.Bellissima..

    (Original post by Foo.mp3)
    Wud yoo be happy den if dey went da whole hog an started talkin like dis on da BBC?
    (Original post by MovieMoments)
    just thinking of my english lit teacher who I'm horrified to find uses these words each lesson: 'babes', 'ohmydays!', and 'gang'. Oh dear...
    Know what I'm sayin'? :eek:
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    (Original post by Foo.mp3)
    Also the last word in her report, 'ever' is "South London schoolgirl"-slack, which is unfortunate as it was this that crystalised the issue in my mind (important to get the sign off right)

    Stay classy San Diego.

    So you can't find an example of how labour 'should' be pronounced? Shame.
    Or is she saying it 'right' the other three times that she says it?

    This is a really silly thread. Who decides which pronunciation is better than any other? And I'd defy you to find any native English speaker who doesn't understand 'labA' for labour (not that she really said that). (except for perhaps those with a rhotic accent who would expect a voiced r in there)
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    (Original post by Foo.mp3)
    It's bad enough hardly hearing an English word on a trip through parts of your home city (London), or, when you do hear it, it's spoken in "this language which is wholly false, which is this jamaican patois that's been intruded in England. This is why so many of us have this sense of literally a foreign country" (Starkey, 2011). Hearing it start to 'intrude' on the BBC is, for me, still more disquieting..

    Here is a letter of complaint I've just sent to them:

    [I]Having once been a bastion for proper English it seems that the BBC is now so keen to demonstrate diversity that it actually risks contributing to the decline in standards in spoken English in the 21st century.



    Does anyone else agree that this sort of thing is a shame/concerning, or is this fundamentally unimportant in modern Britain?


    (would be handy to state your own standard of English/cultural background in posting, for context e.g. my spoken English is decent and I'm from a white, middle class/suburban North London background)[/SIZE]

    I'm sure Chaucer would have wept at the language of Shakespeare's language too. Likewise he would decry the way the BBC radio presenters of the 1930/40s would speak.

    The point is, language changes over time. The way people cry over the decline of our langauge is one of my pet hates. If you look at language over time, you see it changes constantly. In the past, words were pronounced in a completely different way to the steriotypical BBC accent you speak of. A 'Great Vowel Shift' took place in the Medieval period, changing the way we speak completely.

    Many people, including yourself, speak as if there has been a pinnacle of our langauge. In truth, there hasn't. It hasn't. From the invasion of the Vikings and before it has been changing.

    You want to know my background? Degree educated, white middle class, privately educated. Not that it means anything.
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    Bun all the haters, real talk! Inshallah the mandem buss slugs at you wasteman kmrct!
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    You must embrace the vibrancy of words such as "wastegash" OP! :fuhrer:

    The English language is just a social construct, who are you to decide what are generally accepted terms and what is mad cool urban speak, yah? Really we should all try and be more like our inna city brethren. So many benefits! Dench!
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    (Original post by Foo.mp3)
    Allow me to refer you to my above comments to Ms.Bellissima..



    Know what I'm sayin'? :eek:
    HaHaHa, no obviously not. But I don't think the BBC would do that anyway. They are very much the ultimate in the stereotype of Britishness and in the past I think it has taken them a lot to move with the times. Until the very last person speaks in such a way full time, the BBC shall not do so also. We are still safe from colloquilisms on our main station.
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    (Original post by xXxiKillxXx)
    Bun all the haters, real talk! Inshallah the mandem buss slugs at you wasteman kmrct!
    The eloquence, the imagery that such poetic language conjures up. It's just beautiful.

    I have a dream that one day Trevor Macdonald will address the audience as mandem and threaten to shoot them.
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    (Original post by Bonged.)
    The eloquence, the imagery that such poetic language conjures up. It's just beautiful.

    I have a dream that one day Trevor Macdonald will address the audience as mandem and threaten to shoot them.
    I'm surprised you understood!
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    (Original post by Foo.mp3)
    It's bad enough hardly hearing an English word on a trip through parts of your home city (London), or, when you do hear it, it's spoken in "this language which is wholly false, which is this jamaican patois that's been intruded in England. This is why so many of us have this sense of literally a foreign country" (Starkey, 2011). Hearing it start to 'intrude' on the BBC is, for me, still more disquieting..

    Here is a letter of complaint I've just sent to them:

    Having once been a bastion for proper English it seems that the BBC is now so keen to demonstrate diversity that it actually risks contributing to the decline in standards in spoken English in the 21st century.

    I was watching the BBC Weekend News, the national news mind, and was disappointed to hear the reporter, Naomi Grimley, pronouncing several words as one might expect a slang-speaking South London schoolgirl to:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17720269

    The words: “Independent” and “effect” end in a ‘T’, “Labour” is not pronounced ‘LAYBA’, and “ever” is not pronounced ‘EVA’.

    This sort of thing is not congruent with the rich and exemplary tradition of the BBC in this domain, and I think that (news) program producers need to take a view on this. Positive discrimination/equal opportunity are all well and good, but the number one priority must surely be high standards and a high quality of service?


    Does anyone else agree that this sort of thing is a shame/concerning, or is this fundamentally unimportant in modern Britain?

    Where do we draw the line between comedy RP newsreader accents of the early 20th century and having people who wouldn't sound out of place in Kidulthood reading the news?

    (would be handy to state your own standard of English/cultural background in posting, for context e.g. my spoken English is decent and I'm from a white, middle class/suburban North London background)
    Oh dear Foo.....what have you done?

    FYI - the standards of language being used/spoken on air/for a formal presentation are TOTALLY DIFFERENT from the standard of language that should be used in general life.....they are two different issues.

    There is no such thing as a "declining standard" of English - as English (or any other language) has always been adapted to whatever dialect the individual is from. "Standard English" is itself a dialect, which as I have pointed out before, has changed DRASTICALLY over the centuries, and will continue to change (Really, read Chaucer) It has always been influenced by outside countries, which before were primarily Europe, but as we become globalised, these influences can and will come more and more from outside sources.

    To imply that one dialect, simply because it is "standard" is somehow "better" than another dialect, is extremely misguided. One dialect, whether from Liverpool, Cornwall, or Jamaica is not "better" than another.

    If you were to say "the declining standard of English spoken by on air presenters" then that would be a totally different story
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    (Original post by xXxiKillxXx)
    Bun all the haters, real talk! Inshallah the mandem buss slugs at you wasteman kmrct!
    :rofl:
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    (Original post by QI Elf)
    I'm sure Chaucer would have wept at the language of Shakespeare's language too. Likewise he would decry the way the BBC radio presenters of the 1930/40s would speak.

    The point is, language changes over time. The way people cry over the decline of our langauge is one of my pet hates. If you look at language over time, you see it changes constantly. In the past, words were pronounced in a completely different way to the steriotypical BBC accent you speak of. A 'Great Vowel Shift' took place in the Medieval period, changing the way we speak completely.

    Many people, including yourself, speak as if there has been a pinnacle of our langauge. In truth, there hasn't. It hasn't. From the invasion of the Vikings and before it has been changing.

    You want to know my background? Degree educated, white middle class, privately educated. Not that it means anything.
    I was going to bring up Chaucer, but it appears as though you have mentioned him, as well as eloquently putting my thoughts into words
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    (Original post by Foo.mp3)
    It's bad enough hardly hearing an English word on a trip through parts of your home city (London), or, when you do hear it, it's spoken in "this language which is wholly false, which is this jamaican patois that's been intruded in England. This is why so many of us have this sense of literally a foreign country" (Starkey, 2011). Hearing it start to 'intrude' on the BBC is, for me, still more disquieting..

    Here is a letter of complaint I've just sent to them:

    Having once been a bastion for proper English it seems that the BBC is now so keen to demonstrate diversity that it actually risks contributing to the decline in standards in spoken English in the 21st century.

    I was watching the BBC Weekend News, the national news mind, and was disappointed to hear the reporter, Naomi Grimley, pronouncing several words as one might expect a slang-speaking South London schoolgirl to:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17720269

    The words: “Independent” and “effect” end in a ‘T’, “Labour” is not pronounced ‘LAYBA’, and “ever” is not pronounced ‘EVA’.

    This sort of thing is not congruent with the rich and exemplary tradition of the BBC in this domain, and I think that (news) program producers need to take a view on this. Positive discrimination/equal opportunity are all well and good, but the number one priority must surely be high standards and a high quality of service?


    Does anyone else agree that this sort of thing is a shame/concerning, or is this fundamentally unimportant in modern Britain?

    Where do we draw the line between comedy RP newsreader accents of the early 20th century and having people who wouldn't sound out of place in Kidulthood reading the news?

    (would be handy to state your own standard of English/cultural background in posting, for context e.g. my spoken English is decent and I'm from a white, middle class/suburban North London background)
    FWIW,
    Spoken and written English exceptional (although I admit my vocabulary has degenerated since my reading slowed ever since I started my undergrad degree)
    Black, middle class background from the Caribbean
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    (Original post by xXxiKillxXx)
    I'm surprised you understood!
    I grew up in tha inna city. I'm familiar with americanised gangster talk. It's just such a shame that it has such a connection with crime and stupidity in the minds of most people. I wonder why this could possibly be? Islamophobia?
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    I find it more annoying that people's vocabularies are shrinking than the fact that they speak in slang. For example, only today I said vivisection in a conversation, and no one knew what I meant. Some of them take biology!

    Slang doesn't bother me much though. Nor do accents.
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    (Original post by Foo.mp3)
    It's bad enough hardly hearing an English word on a trip through parts of your home city (London), or, when you do hear it, it's spoken in "this language which is wholly false, which is this jamaican patois that's been intruded in England. This is why so many of us have this sense of literally a foreign country" (Starkey, 2011). Hearing it start to 'intrude' on the BBC is, for me, still more disquieting..

    Here is a letter of complaint I've just sent to them:

    Having once been a bastion for proper English it seems that the BBC is now so keen to demonstrate diversity that it actually risks contributing to the decline in standards in spoken English in the 21st century.

    I was watching the BBC Weekend News, the national news mind, and was disappointed to hear the reporter, Naomi Grimley, pronouncing several words as one might expect a slang-speaking South London schoolgirl to:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17720269

    The words: “Independent” and “effect” end in a ‘T’, “Labour” is not pronounced ‘LAYBA’, and “ever” is not pronounced ‘EVA’.

    This sort of thing is not congruent with the rich and exemplary tradition of the BBC in this domain, and I think that (news) program producers need to take a view on this. Positive discrimination/equal opportunity are all well and good, but the number one priority must surely be high standards and a high quality of service?


    Does anyone else agree that this sort of thing is a shame/concerning, or is this fundamentally unimportant in modern Britain?

    Where do we draw the line between comedy RP newsreader accents of the early 20th century and having people who wouldn't sound out of place in Kidulthood reading the news?

    (would be handy to state your own standard of English/cultural background in posting, for context e.g. my spoken English is decent and I'm from a white, middle class/suburban North London background)
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Unfoldin...4591560&sr=8-3

    ^^Read!
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    Changes in language are natural and too be expected. Standard are not 'declining' but evolving. Everything evolves, including languages and culture.

    As long as the point can be communicated, language serves it purpose.

    What did you think happenned before the dictionary was written? They was no official 'right' way of spelling something, so people spelt it how they wanted to and how it would best reflect the crux of what they were saying. Some of the most wonderful, beautiful poetry is written in what you would call 'shamefull' language... (Chaucer and Shakespeare have already been mentioned). However as I suspect you are a disgruntled, pretentious adolescent with nothing better to do, I would suggest you pull yourself together and get over it- you're not fighting for the cause, there is no cause and you're being narrow minded and pathetic.

    I am a white, working class, state school-educated female.

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