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Is anyone else disappointed by declining standards in spoken English in Britain?

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    The ancient "their they're there" debate never ceases to amaze me.... People, it's not hard!
    Also people who can't tell the difference between "could of" and "could have" and the difference between "less" and "fewer". I was in a supermarket the other day and they'd managed to use less in place of fewer on a rather large sign. Nice one!
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    (Original post by Bonged.)
    :dunce: erm, somewhere in the middle in a standard non formal setting. Obviously using needlessly verbose vocabulary simply hinders communication as it is cumbersome. Conversely, it's best not to sound like you've got mental dench problems. lol.
    All of which is relative. They have conveyed the information necessary in the most natural way possible given the situation. Why do you want them to actively moderate their language to ensure eavesdroppers understand them?
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    (Original post by whyumadtho)
    All of which is relative. They have conveyed the information necessary in the most natural way possible given the situation. Why do you want them to actively moderate their language to ensure eavesdroppers understand them?
    You fail to understand that the people that speak like this cannot easily modify their method of speech. I can still hear the lahk as opposed to like etc. It just makes you look like a knuckle dragger.

    It's not about eavesdropping, it's about being coherent to your "fellow members of the community" (lol). I often can't understand them, and I grew up with the creatures, I can't imagine how incoherent they must seem to an employer or people at a uni interview etc.
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    Well put it this way, the way people speak English has always been changing and will change in the future. There seems to be less of that "clean" traditional British accent around, but some regional accents I find okay, they don't bother me.
    However the accents in the North West really bother me, well, in some places around the area where I live anyway. It's just lazy English, some people don't pronounce words properly by missing out letter, such as the "t" in "but" and do it constantly, over and over again and it's just sloppy English that gets to a point that it just bothers you. If you was in the area I'm at you'd know what I'm talking about..

    I'm disappointed more in the moral decline in my age group through. Teens.....ugh. So little respect from many of them...
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    (Original post by Bonged.)
    Evidently it is a mix of the two factors. The fact that jafaican speakers tend to have a remarkably small vocabulary
    You don't know the extent of their vocabulary at all. People change their vocabularies depending on the circumstance.

    So, per se, it isn't the non-standard use of English that concerns you?

    and that they tend to be worthless scumbags.
    Irrelevant.
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    (Original post by L_Vieru)
    Well put it this way, the way people speak English has always been changing and will change in the future. There seems to be less of that "clean" traditional British accent around, but some regional accents I find okay, they don't bother me.
    However the accents in the North West really bother me, well, in some places around the area where I live anyway. It's just lazy English, some people don't pronounce words properly by missing out letter, such as the "t" in "but" and do it constantly, over and over again and it's just sloppy English that gets to a point that it just bothers you. If you was in the area I'm at you'd know what I'm talking about..

    I'm disappointed more in the moral decline in my age group through. Teens.....ugh. So little respect from many of them...
    this is part of the problem, people associate this particular form of speech with moral decline through experience of the utter immorality of it's users.
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    (Original post by whyumadtho)
    You don't know the extent of their vocabulary at all. People change their vocabularies depending on the circumstance.

    So, per se, it isn't the non-standard use of English that concerns you?

    Irrelevant.
    no, per se its what i actually said, its a mix.

    I grew up with these "people" I know their average intelligence and that it is frightfully low.

    :pierre:
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    (Original post by Bonged.)
    You fail to understand that the people that speak like this cannot easily modify their method of speech. I can still hear the lahk as opposed to like etc. It just makes you look like a knuckle dragger.
    There are various dialects across the country and I still don't know why you have a specific problem with this dialect per se. The Syndicate on BBC demonstrates the dialect and accent seen in parts of Leeds, for example. Everyone has an idiosyncratic intonation to their voice; it's how you are capable of identifying people from the sound they produce alone.

    It's not about eavesdropping, it's about being coherent to your "fellow members of the community" (lol). I often can't understand them, and I grew up with the creatures, I can't imagine how incoherent they must seem to an employer or people at a uni interview etc.
    My point exactly. You don't know how they behave in different situations. There are obviously substantial portions of the population who can understand them, else the dialect wouldn't be so salient.
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    When I see all the negative rep on the OP, I start to question the sanity of some people on here.
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    (Original post by whyumadtho)
    There are various dialects across the country and I still don't know why you have a specific problem with this dialect per se. The Syndicate on BBC demonstrates the dialect and accent seen in parts of Leeds, for example. Everyone has an idiosyncratic intonation to their voice; it's how you are capable of identifying people from the sound they produce alone.

    My point exactly. You don't know how the behave in different situations. There are obviously substantial portions of the population who can understand them, else the dialect wouldn't be so salient.
    Such a shame that the speakers of this glorious dialect have made themselves utterly infamous through astronomical crime rates and lack of intelligence.

    Well, we can make educated guesses on how ordinary people will view them can't we, and it won't be favourably. Also, doesn't really matter how they behave in certain situations, if they behave in an animalistic manner outside of the house but turn into lovely chaps in the house, that has no bearing on the behaviour that others have witnessed/suffered.
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    (Original post by Apocalyptic Fish)
    When I see all the negative rep on the OP, I start to question the sanity of some people on here.
    It's hip to like gangsters atm. I guess cos they're so oppressed. =(
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    (Original post by Bonged.)
    no, per se its what i actually said, its a mix.
    But you said the non-standard use of English does not concern you unless there is a criminal element involved. If an upstanding member of the community used such a dialect, what reason do you have to dislike them? Why are you unconcerned by people who do not know how to use possessive apostrophes correctly? Does this not indicate the person is uneducated and therefore likely to be a criminal individual?

    I grew up with these "people" I know their average intelligence and that it is frightfully low.

    :pierre:
    I have many friends who have progressed into law, medicine and various other intensive degrees who speak using the dialect in question. As I have told you in the past, dialects are spatial and the absorption of one salient spatially-contingent trait, especially when it is harmless, does not necessitate the concurrent absorption of whatever other salient spatially-contingent traits that may or may not exist in the area.
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    (Original post by Bonged.)
    Such a shame that the speakers of this glorious dialect have made themselves utterly infamous through astronomical crime rates and lack of intelligence.
    I favour the individual, not the uninvolved and unrelated others.

    Well, we can make educated guesses on how ordinary people will view them can't we, and it won't be favourably. Also, doesn't really matter how they behave in certain situations, if they behave in an animalistic manner outside of the house but turn into lovely chaps in the house, that has no bearing on the behaviour that others have witnessed/suffered.
    We're discussing language here, Bonged.—keep up. Who is 'ordinary'? There are dialects across the country that may be unintelligible to persons unaccustomed to them, but that doesn't suggest the speakers are themselves unintelligent.
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    (Original post by whyumadtho)
    But you said the non-standard use of English does not concern you unless there is a criminal element involved. If an upstanding member of the community used such a dialect, what reason do you have to dislike them? Why are you unconcerned by people who do not know how to use possessive apostrophes correctly? Does this not indicate the person is uneducated and therefore likely to be a criminal individual?

    I have many friends who have progressed into law, medicine and various other intensive degrees who speak using the dialect in question. As I have told you in the past, dialects are spatial and the absorption of one salient spatially-contingent trait, especially when it is harmless, does not necessitate the concurrent absorption of whatever other salient spatially-contingent traits that may or may not exist in the area.
    No, get a grip and stop viewing what I say in such a pedantic manner. It sounds spectacularly moronic to everyone apart from the people that use it and tsrian libtards.

    Erm, evidence for this?
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    (Original post by whyumadtho)
    I favour the individual, not the uninvolved and unrelated others.

    We're discussing language here, Bonged.—keep up. Who is 'ordinary'? There are dialects across the country that may be unintelligible to persons unaccustomed to them, but that doesn't suggest the speakers are themselves unintelligent.
    Want a cookie?

    Quite, but there won't be dialects in cities that are utterly unintelligible to people from the same city, as we see in London. So fail really. :pierre:
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    (Original post by Bonged.)
    No, get a grip and stop viewing what I say in such a pedantic manner. It sounds spectacularly moronic to everyone apart from the people that use it and tsrian libtards.
    Then why doesn't every dialect? People also ridicule received pronunciation and denigrate 'posh' people. There is no objective standard of speech.

    Erm, evidence for this?
    The evidence is everywhere. There is not sociocultural homogeneity between any two individuals and not all persons residing in inner-city London speak using this dialect and/or are criminals.
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    (Original post by Foo.mp3)
    It's bad enough hardly hearing an English word on a trip through parts of your home city (London), or, when you do hear it, it's spoken in "this language which is wholly false, which is this jamaican patois that's been intruded in England. This is why so many of us have this sense of literally a foreign country" (Starkey, 2011). Hearing it start to 'intrude' on the BBC is, for me, still more disquieting..

    Here is a letter of complaint I've just sent to them:

    Having once been a bastion for proper English it seems that the BBC is now so keen to demonstrate diversity that it actually risks contributing to the decline in standards in spoken English in the 21st century.

    I was watching the BBC Weekend News, the national news mind, and was disappointed to hear the reporter, Naomi Grimley, pronouncing several words as one might expect a slang-speaking South London schoolgirl to:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17720269

    The words: “Independent” and “effect” end in a ‘T’, “Labour” is not pronounced ‘LAYBA’, and “ever” is not pronounced ‘EVA’.

    This sort of thing is not congruent with the rich and exemplary tradition of the BBC in this domain, and I think that (news) program producers need to take a view on this. Positive discrimination/equal opportunity are all well and good, but the number one priority must surely be high standards and a high quality of service?


    Does anyone else agree that this sort of thing is a shame/concerning, or is this fundamentally unimportant in modern Britain?

    Where do we draw the line between comedy RP newsreader accents of the early 20th century and having people who wouldn't sound out of place in Kidulthood reading the news?

    (would be handy to state your own standard of English/cultural background in posting, for context e.g. my spoken English is decent and I'm from a white, middle class/suburban North London background)
    I think that it is right to embrace diversity, yet something as neutral as the BBC should set an example - an example of English language as it should be.
    I am a white middle class girl from the heart of Yorkshire - I do not speak in the Yorkshire dialect but in standard English. Although it is fairly abnormal to speak 'well' in Yorkshire I never have a problem being understood.
    This factor is central to the BBC, they should be understood under all circumstances, and if different dialect creep into the BBC then soon the news will be incomprehensible.
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    (Original post by whyumadtho)
    Then why doesn't every dialect? People also ridicule received pronunciation and denigrate 'posh' people. There is no objective standard of speech.

    The evidence is everywhere. There is not sociocultural homogeneity between any two individuals and not all persons residing in inner-city London speak using this dialect and/or are criminals.
    Which you don't have a problem with. Interesting that you choose to defend certain forms of speech but not others. A bias perhaps? Never!

    Unacceptable. Evidence is required to back your claim.
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    (Original post by Bonged.)
    Want a cookie?
    Why are you using the actions of unrelated others to justify your point?

    Quite, but there won't be dialects in cities that are utterly unintelligible to people from the same city, as we see in London. So fail really. :pierre:
    That isn't new. Cockney rhyming slang isn't particularly intelligible to individuals who do not speak using that dialect, is it?

    There are several heavy dialects across the country, most notably (in my perspective) in Scotland. It is unqualified to suggest everyone will understand the accents in any city other than London.
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    (Original post by whyumadtho)
    Why are you using the actions of unrelated others to justify your point?

    That isn't new. Cockney rhyming slang isn't particularly intelligible to individuals who do not speak using that dialect, is it?

    There are several heavy dialects across the country, most notably (in my perspective) in Scotland. It is unqualified to suggest everyone will understand the accents in any city other than London.
    I'm using the actions of a majority of people that use that bastardised form of language. not the very, very few nice individuals who are in fact very nice when they get home. lol.

    Irrelevant as cockney is extinct.

    Throughout cities in England, people can understand each others dialects as the dialects they speak are native to those cities. An upper class mancunian can easily understand a working class mancunian. A non-jafaican speaking londoner can't really understand jafaican. Though I do like the word dench, it seems to encapsulate the utter stupidity and banality of jafaican.

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