[Cll_ws]

(Original post by Tommyjw)
He stamped on youngs foot, making enough contact that if Young went down normally it would have been an easy penalty. Albeit he would have gone down fairly easy, but you see that kind of thing all the time as going down like that wouldnt be anything special, especially if he didnt go all broadway on the fall.

What you dont see often (thus i mean its not as acceptable) is the second part of the contact, where Young drags his leg as to purposely catch it on the outstretched leg. This is terrible, should be a yellow as its theatrical and such, but that doesnt stop the initial contact being a penalty.

Fair enough if you think that, but I don't agree. Whilst there was the slightest of contact, it was only because Young made sure there was. Clark did have a full knee outstretched which I believe Young was looking to go over, but he pulled it back before he could get there, so Young did the next best thing and stubbed his toe into Clarks foot, Clark wasn't the one that brought his foot down on Young's, the bottom of Clarks boot didn't touch Young, it was the side of the very tip.
If Young was genuinely looking to go past Clark then he could of, but he brought his right foot so far over and just stuck it into Clark's foot.

[Tommyjw]

(Original post by Cll_ws)
Fair enough if you think that, but I don't agree. Whilst there was the slightest of contact, it was only because Young made sure there was. Clark did have a full knee outstretched which I believe Young was looking to go over, but he pulled it back before he could get there, so Young did the next best thing and stubbed his toe into Clarks foot, Clark wasn't the one that brought his foot down on Young's, the bottom of Clarks boot didn't touch Young.
If Young was genuinely looking to go past Clark then he could of, but he brought his right foot so far over and just stuck it into Clark's foot.

So you post the gif with the worst angle? good job.

And yes, there was definitely contact made by clark. Every commentator/pundit who reviewed it saw it. How on earth can you say young put his foot under clarks? 0.o That is absoloutely absurd. He put his foot there in order to you know.. stand? Or should we say every foul ever in the game isnt a foul because the player put his legs feet in the way?

http://videa.hu/videok/allatok/ma-D0EHdlAuyAlr9G2D

Look at like 24 seconds. Definite contact made. As everyone who looks at the normal angle can see.

[xDave-]

(Original post by In2deep)
What are the chances that this will be forgotten in a few days time? On the other hand, some players have to deal with a "cheat" tag for the rest of their careers in England.

Young is a well known diver? Had that reputation well before he came to United.

[Cll_ws]

(Original post by Tommyjw)
So you post the gif with the worst angle? good job.

And yes, there was definitely contact made by clark. Every commentator/pundit who reviewed it saw it. How on earth can you say young put his foot under clarks? 0.o That is absoloutely absurd. He put his foot there in order to you know.. stand? Or should we say every foul ever in the game isnt a foul because the player put his legs feet in the way?

http://videa.hu/videok/allatok/ma-D0EHdlAuyAlr9G2D

Look at like 24 seconds. Definite contact made. As everyone who looks at the normal angle can see.

It's the only angle online that I could post as an image.
And i'm definitely not arguing that contact was made, i'm just saying that Young could of easily skipped right past Clark, like any decent winger would be able to do.
I just don't feel he needed to bring his foot that far over towards Clark. Look at the way he suddenly stamps his foot down towards Clark, much faster than it was naturally coming down before hand.
Plus in order to be tripped your foot has to moving forwards, he just stamps his foot to the ground and goes flying forward from that spot.

[DaveSmith99]

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xq6...n-diving_sport

Watch that video on diving by Gary Neville, its not just about Young but about diving in general and how ingrained into the sport it is.

[chiddy09]

I think everyone missing the point!! Young has been diving all his Life!!!!!

Link: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/b...ley-young-dive

Read it.

[NDGAARONDI]

(Original post by Colbert)
You mean when Del Horno, in a rare moment of match fitness, lunged into Messi with studs up and attempted to break his leg around the knee joint and end his season, then followed it up with another attempt minutes later which forced Messi to jump out of the way to avoid getting crutches?

And roll round in agony at 20 turns a second when no contact was made IIRC. Made Porto's cheating antics against Celtic look weak.

[doggyfizzel]

Young isn't really the worst, its just been highlighted by two games in a row, there was contact in both dives, you can criticise the dive but it doesn't change the decision. As has been said, GNev's analysis is pretty in depth.

Young isn't physically strong, gets round it by going down at the slightest touch. He did it at Villa and he's doing it at United. Everyplayer does it when the stakes are high, even Messi does when Barca need to win.

[Zyyz]

Penalty? Yes.

Dive? Yes.

[ForensicShoe]

(Original post by Zyyz)
Penalty? Yes.

Dive? Yes.

If it's a dive (which it clearly is) it shouldn't have been a penalty and Young should have been carded for simulation.

The two can't coincide.

[Lightyear]

(Original post by mark147celts)
United were going to win no matter what so doesn't make a difference. Far superior team compared to aston villa who lets face it, are ridiculously bad under alex alex mcleish.

****ing stupid argument. If that is the case, why not just give united the title without playing any games? Or just have a league for United, City, Arsenal and Chelsea?

United and Arsenal both fairly lost to Wigan, Chelsea should have. Goals change the flow of games, and knock the confidence out of a team. Take the QPR dive and red card. Shouldn't have been either, and completely changed the game, but until that point QPR were holding their own.

United aren't always going to win, and cheating is cheating and does impact on the opposition. Young's an embarrassment.

[Zyyz]

(Original post by ForensicShoe)
If it's a dive (which it clearly is) it shouldn't have been a penalty and Young should have been carded for simulation.

The two can't coincide.

He clips his foot though anyway, If a player causes an obstruction it's a foul. Would it help if I used the word, "over-theatrical" instead of a dive?

Refs don't give fouls if the player doesn't go over.

[IWantSomeMushu]

(Original post by In2deep)
Is it the major story, or are we being forced to listen about the goal that never was and loads of other non-stories? I'm in no way attacking Young but it is clear that people are making excuses for him. No way near the total attack against Eduardo where he was called a "cheat", "embarrassment to the game" and many other despicable things in hindsight.

All I'm getting at is that there is a clear way "simulation" is dealt with in this country, if it is Bale diving then "it was not needed but he was protecting himself from dangerous tackles" and if it is Young then "he went down to easily but a touch is a touch" to how we treat "foreigners" with headlines such as "Eduardo IS a cheat" and calling for retrospective punishment after a whole week of bashing him on every radio station available.

What are the chances that this will be forgotten in a few days time? On the other hand, some players have to deal with a "cheat" tag for the rest of their careers in England.

This.

I remember when Eduardo was crucified for his dive because he was a foreigner. It's just a joke how British players are constantly let off the hook for it. Bale is one of the worst.

[ForensicShoe]

(Original post by Zyyz)
He clips his foot though anyway, If a player causes an obstruction it's a foul. Would it help if I used the word, "over-theatrical" instead of a dive?
Refs don't give fouls if the player doesn't go over.

It would have helped yeah

[doggyfizzel]

(Original post by ForensicShoe)
If it's a dive (which it clearly is) it shouldn't have been a penalty and Young should have been carded for simulation.

The two can't coincide.

Of course they can. If I run into the box and someone kicks me in the leg and I stay on my feet, that is a foul in the box which is a penalty. If in the same situation I decide to throw myself theatrically into the box holding my leg, the foul has still occurred hence penalty, but I have still simulated my reaction.

[ForensicShoe]

Hey look, it's Young

[Zyyz]

(Original post by ForensicShoe)
It would have helped yeah

Lol, It's a bit of a wishy washy subject

[Marco Ben]

there was contact stop believing whatever you read in the papers
idiots...

[WTSFG]

Who's ashley young?

[Kruz]

(Original post by In2deep)
I think the real shame is how the media deals with diving and the apparent xenophobic mindsets of current pundits. How many times have we heard about "foreign players" diving and how they "come and ruin the sport". They berated C.Ronaldo and the way the treated Eduardo in hindsight is quite disgusting. Yet here we are and the player who's been booked the most for "simulation" is Bale and Young dives twice in two matches to win a penalty; I don't hear much uproar.

Hit the nail on the head, I was saying this earlier our own British players dive and no one say **** all, but when the foreigner does it oh no 'ruining out league'. Absolute bull****