[Ohlavelle]

He also claims to be part of the Knights Templar, doesn't he? As far as I was aware there had been two tests of his mental state, one of which concluded he was insane and the other, later test found him sane.

I don't think he's insane. I think he's a dangerous man with dangerous views. But I don't really care what conclusion is reached as long as he's never allowed out, it's not about politics it's about murder. Even if he believed he was acting in "self defense" on the island he killed people with a car bomb, he had no way of controlling who those people would be. He is a murderer and the lowest form of human being.

[Tubby Isaacs]

(Original post by jackmikeMon)
Any evidence ? Where are you living ? You can't be living in Europe, otherwise you wouldn't have just asked that question.
If you are, then I seriously worry about your perception skills. Look around you, open your eyes!

I'm living in Tower Hamlets. My eyes indeed show me a lot of Muslim Asian people. They also show me pubs open very late, gay pubs and places where women wearing not many clothes dance all night.

sadly they also show me banks charging rip off interest rates, but alas, Islam hasn't got them closed down yet.

[natchina]

(Original post by dgeorge)
It is not an idea, it is a fact borne out by extensive evidence that people on the lowest socio-economic end are far more likely to engage in criminal activities, including violent crimes like rape. Let me point out, this is an OFFICIAL 88 page report which made this assertion, not a random poster on a student website. If you really want to refute that their statistics are WRONG, then I suggest you find some information of your own to back up your claim.

i may have pointed this out before, but i am a recovering marxist. so i know marxist waffle when i hear it.


instead of reading this 88 page social science marxist waffle, please just tell me how being poor turns a person into a violent rapist?

virtually ALL poor people and not violent rapists. so whats the link exactly?

[That Bearded Man]

Is Breivik insane? I don't think so, he has an irrational hatred of a group of people akin to racists, I'd like to know why he hasn't shot any Muslims before. This is all a publicity stunt now, congratulation to Tv1 or whichever news stations have decided to censor some of his speech. He's pleading not guilty for his opportunity to speak and encourage more attacks.

21 years you say? Shocking to hear

[Soli123]

(Original post by Brutal Honesty)
I know exactly what you meant. Breivik did this because of Muslim immigration, he had a point (although he's bad for killing people) and therefore Muslim immigration should be banned. However, it would seem that you're demanding collective punishment on a group of people for something that a white Norwegian did. Wouldn't it make more sense to punish white, male Norwegians instead of immigrants (who haven't massacred people in Norway)?

I'm neither talking about or demanding collective punishment of immigrants, neither am I talking about about banning immigration all together. I was simply providing information about what he claims to be the reasons for his actions and the immigration situation in Norway. What will make sense is to punish this one white Norwegian and for the government to take a closer look at the long overlooked immigration situation in Norway, which in some peoples minds is so bad they feel the need to kill 77 people.

[Brutal Honesty]

(Original post by Soli123)
I'm neither talking about or demanding collective punishment of immigrants, neither am I talking about about banning immigration all together. I was simply providing information about what he claims to be the reasons for his actions and the immigration situation in Norway. What will make sense is to punish this one white Norwegian and for the government to take a closer look at the long overlooked immigration situation in Norway, which in some peoples minds is so bad they feel the need to kill 77 people.

Why do you want to pander to terrorists?

[dgeorge]

(Original post by natchina)
i may have pointed this out before, but i am a recovering marxist. so i know marxist waffle when i hear it.


instead of reading this 88 page social science marxist waffle, please just tell me how being poor turns a person into a violent rapist?

virtually ALL poor people and not violent rapists. so whats the link exactly?

It wasn't 88 page social science marxist waffle WHEN YOU AGREED WITH IT.

My I also point out that YOU were the one who introduced the youtube video which (misleadingly) quoted from said same report.

However, now that you have found out that it does not agree with certain of your points, you have now disowned said same report which YOU were responsible for introducing.

I think the waffler here is you. If you want to argue about poverty and crime (personally, you have to be daft to NOT know that there is a link between poverty and crime, particularly violent ones) then I suggest you start another thread. I won't argue with someone who uses a report to prove their point, and then when the said same report disagrees with their views, suddenly disown it.

[natchina]

(Original post by dgeorge)
It wasn't 88 page social science marxist waffle WHEN YOU AGREED WITH IT.

My I also point out that YOU were the one who introduced the youtube video which (misleadingly) quoted from said same report.

However, now that you have found out that it does not agree with certain of your points, you have now disowned said same report which YOU were responsible for introducing.

I think the waffler here is you. If you want to argue about poverty and crime (personally, you have to be daft to NOT know that there is a link between poverty and crime, particularly violent ones) then I suggest you start another thread. I won't argue with someone who uses a report to prove their point, and then when the said same report disagrees with their views, suddenly disown it.

I posted a mainstream tv news segment that reported on official police data.

What has that got to do with your 88 page report? -- does poverty make non white rapists target white women for rape? is this the gist of the report or what?


( Btw, I agree this is a side issue concerning this thread. I posted the link in response to another posters comments about rape in Norway. Although, maybe these rapes were part of breiviks motivation? I have not read his manifesto so am not sure. )

[Joinedup]

I expect he's pleading guilty cos he's hoping to make political speeches from the dock and recruit followers.

[JustAGoodLAD]

(Original post by justanotherindigo)
The man who carried out bomb and gun attacks in Norway last year which left 77 people dead has pleaded not guilty at the start of his trial in Oslo.

Anders Behring Breivik attacked a youth camp organised by the governing Labour party on the island of Utoeya, after setting off a car bomb in the capital.

He told the court he "acknowledged" the acts committed, but said he did not accept criminal responsibility.

The prosecution earlier gave a detailed account of how each person was killed.

If the court decides he is criminally insane, he will be committed to psychiatric care; if he is judged to be mentally stable, he will be jailed.

In the latter case, he faces a sentence of 21 years, which could be extended to keep him behind bars for the rest of his life.

The 33-year-old Norwegian was found insane in one examination, while a second assessment made public last week found him mentally competent.

As said before, he denies criminal responsibility and claimed that he acted on behalf of self-defence. So killing innocent young lives is self-defence?

What are your thoughts on this?

I don't know the ins and outs of the court case, but did he have a defence lawyer? If so, how? Who in their right mind, whether it be their profession or not, could defend this man?

[Dragonfly07]

I like to believe that no sane person would be able to do something like that.

[dgeorge]

(Original post by natchina)
I posted a mainstream tv news segment that reported on official police data.

What has that got to do with your 88 page report? -- does poverty make non white rapists target white women for rape? is this the gist of the report or what?


( Btw, I agree this is a side issue concerning this thread. I posted the link in response to another posters comments about rape in Norway. Although, maybe these rapes were part of breiviks motivation? I have not read his manifesto so am not sure. )

The "official police data" used from the tv news segment is taken from THE SAME 88 PAGE REPORT that you later called marxist waffle.

Clearer now?

Again, I won't argue with the link between poverty and crime. If you want to argue this, start another thread doing so. I think we've already gone more than far enough off topic.

[natchina]

(Original post by dgeorge)
The "official police data" used from the tv news segment is taken from THE SAME 88 PAGE REPORT that you later called marxist waffle.

Clearer now?

Again, I won't argue with the link between poverty and crime. If you want to argue this, start another thread doing so. I think we've already gone more than far enough off topic.

Ok, so the hard data and crime stats are lumped in with the social science mumbo jumbo about why the crimes are happening.

Obviously, the hard data is not quite what they wanted to hear. And so they have buried it in a pile of raw waffle --raw waffle that even refuses to come to honest conclusions. Example. All of the victims in Oslo were white. All of the rapists were not white.

If poverty was to blame, why did the rapists only target white women? Why were no non-white women raped? Why did poor white Norwegians not rape anyone in Oslo?

But even if poverty was to blame, which is is not. Then why should Norway invite into its country poor people from other countries if this is how they behave?

[dgeorge]

(Original post by natchina)
Ok, so the hard data of crime stats is lumped in with the social science mumbo jumbo about why the crimes are happening.

Obviously, the hard data is not quite what they wanted to hear. And so they have buried it in a pile of raw waffle.

Waffle aside, what is your personal opinion about how relative poverty turns some people into violent and racist rapists?

It's not "social science mumbo jumbo" It was STATISTICALLY examined and found that economic conditions were consistent among the criminals across different races. The same HARD DATA that you trumpeted so loudly which was in the news report is the same HARD DATA that found this to be true.

Again, stop trying to devalue information SIMPLY BECAUSE YOU DONT AGREE WITH IT. You should simply admit that you are WRONG instead of trying to confuse the issue. It makes you look extremely immature that you are selectively picking and choosing from the SAME report from the SAME source only facts that corroborate your point of view while when viewed in its entire these "hard facts" invalidate your point.

And again, I will be only too happy to discuss the influence of poverty on crime in another thread. But not this one.

[natchina]

(Original post by dgeorge)
It's not "social science mumbo jumbo" It was STATISTICALLY examined and found that economic conditions were consistent among the criminals across different races. The same HARD DATA that you trumpeted so loudly which was in the news report is the same HARD DATA that found this to be true.

Again, stop trying to devalue information SIMPLY BECAUSE YOU DONT AGREE WITH IT. You should simply admit that you are WRONG instead of trying to confuse the issue. It makes you look extremely immature that you are selectively picking and choosing from the SAME report from the SAME source only facts that corroborate your point of view while when viewed in its entire these "hard facts" invalidate your point.

And again, I will be only too happy to discuss the influence of poverty on crime in another thread. But not this one.

Just tell me, using your own personal logic and common sense, why poverty turns people into violent and racist rapists?

The link between shop lifting and poverty is clear.......

But rape?

[dgeorge]

(Original post by natchina)
Just tell me, using your own personal logic and common sense, why poverty turns people into violent and racist rapists?

The link between shop lifting and poverty is clear.......

But rape?

Accept that maybe, just maybe, that you are wrong, and that just because you disagree with a certain viewpoint doesn't instantly invalidate ALL of the evidence, then maybe I will

[dgeorge]

(Original post by natchina)
Just tell me, using your own personal logic and common sense, why poverty turns people into violent and racist rapists?

The link between shop lifting and poverty is clear.......

But rape?

And for the record, please stop exaggerating and misquoting me. I never, EVER said that poverty turns people into violent and racist rapists. If you are going to quote me, please do so correctly and factually. what I said was

people on the lowest socio-economic end are far more likely to engage in criminal activities, including violent crimes like rape

Nowhere did I ever say that poverty causes people to rape nor did I say that poverty turns people into rapists, as you are claiming I simply said that poor people are MORE LIKELY to engage in violent crimes, such as rape.

[Nephilim]

(Original post by mevidek)
Perhaps I am generalising, but the far-right - a lot more than the far-left - tend to not be creative, intelligent, or to understand society as a whole.

You're right, you are generalising . Most of the Classical music composers were right-wing, with people like Chopin and Bach being far-right. Society changes. More people were right-wing during those times, and now most people are left-wing. A person's political persuasion has nothing to do with their intelligence and especially has nothing to do with their level of creativity.

[Gridiron-Gangster]

(Original post by Nephilim)
You're right, you are generalising . Most of the Classical music composers were right-wing, with people like Chopin and Bach being far-right. Society changes. More people were right-wing during those times, and now most people are left-wing. A person's political persuasion has nothing to do with their intelligence and especially has nothing to do with their level of creativity.

We can't really apply the morality etc of being right or left-wing to people like Chopin and Bach who by virtue of the fact they were from a completely different generation, time-period etc probably had no awareness of the concept of multiculturalism or the ethical issues it might pose etc. I doubt Bach knew his nigiri from his futomaki or had ever tried a falafel in a pitta.

[Nephilim]

(Original post by Gridiron-Gangster)
We can't really apply the morality etc of being right or left-wing to people like Chopin and Bach who by virtue of the fact they were from a completely different generation, time-period etc probably had no awareness of the concept of multiculturalism or the ethical issues it might pose etc. I doubt Bach knew his nigiri from his futomaki or had ever tried a falafel in a pitta.

Well not really true, because 18th and especially 19th century Germany/Poland/Austria were very multi-cultural. Of course they didn't have a lot of people from central-asia living in their countries, but even people from Croatia and Italy seemed foreign to Germans/Pols (many Croatians and Italians lived in the Holy Roman Empire region).